The entertainment business has changed a lot over the years in my area, and I'm not really comfortable with the situation...major cutthroats willing to play for nothing...a transition to local bar/grill operations and a corresponding lessening, in the eyes of owners, of the importance of music.

A local bar/grill is for sale. Until now, I would never have even considered owning one.

I have a marketing/advertising/music/accounting background, was a bartender in college and have owned my communications company for years.

I know just enough about food to know that it's a hard business and that I really don't know it. I have played primarily in restaurants and hotels for years, and ran a local college restaurant/lounge for over a year for a friend with health problems.

Several acquaintences have gotten into their own clubs over the years...some very successful and some not so successful.

Any experience or advice?

Russ

How bad is it? How low are they going?

Top rate for a restaurant job is $150.00.
Second tier folk s are charging $100.00.
Lot's of people are know offering to play for $75.00.there are two places in town (a bluegrass establishment and a buffet restaurent only who pay in food...one meal per night.

At my job, there are over 25 people a week offering to play for less than my rate. It hasn't been a problem for me, mainly because most play only one type of music that is generally not appropriate for an upscale restaurant. Ability doesn't make as much difference as it used to here. Some operators simply want a warm body on the bandstand.

Russ

I think owning a restaurant is definitely a pretty high risk investment, EVEN when you have a winning recipe.

Owning a nice sportsbar would definitely reduce the risk. I have yet to find a struggling sports bar here in Oregon. Can't go wrong with a couple nice pool tables, other games, 2-3 big screens, 10 smaller TVs, and lots of beer/booze. Having a great air filter also helps.

I'd say IF you decided to go into the business, focus on the 'hanging out place', 'comfort food', 'BEER', 'dancing and other fun activities' aspect of it.

You're only guaranteed one thing in that business... working LOTS of hours. And that hold true whether you do well or bomb. If you find a winning formula, that is, one that's been proven in another city for example, it certainly could work out, but IMO, it's slim odds... lots of competition, many failures. However, if you decide to go for it, I wish you the best of luck.

Glenn

Having worked for Generral Mills in their dining house/foodservice division for 20+ years (in a previous life, lol) I'd want to know a few things before I went anywhere near it...

1) Why is it for sale?
2) How is the location and traffic into the place? Is it free standing, in a strip mall, etc...
3) Does the restaurant have a successful concept and following?

4) Staffing restaurants is virtually a full time gig all by itself. I've run Red Lobsters in PA, DC and OH and found that a GM's job was 70-80% HR related...which didn't leave much time for training, working the dining room, watching your costs properly, ordering, food production, schedules, paying the bills, answering the back door for the endless deliveries, etc.

5) What is the current owners A/P situation like? Has he spent so much that he HAS to sell it?

6) Would you run this yourself or hire managers? Will you offer benefits to your mgt. team and/or employees?

7) Is there a union involved with this place?

8) Open for lunch and dinner? If so, and depending on the volume it might do...count on spending upwards of 60-80 hours a week to keep it going. More if you don't have a mgt. team.

Good luck!

Bill in Dayton

Thanks, Glenn. I know the odds. Fortunately, if I decide to do it, I will not need to rely on the income or borrow money. This is a favorite place of mine, and I have long-time acquaintences who are knowledgable and available to help. The owner of the place I have played for 13 yars will be involved and I'll still work summers there. The accountant in me is analyzing P&L statements.

I mainly want a place for the performance of
good music...a place for the real talent in the area to work (and by real talent, I don't mean me).

The kids are grown and I am semi-retired.

Russ

Bill, I really value your input. The current owner is retiring. He has owned the business for over 30 years.I have played the establishment many times over the years.

It is located in an older strip mall. I recently moved into the neighborhood. Traffic count is 35,000 one way. There are three subdivisions that had 700 houses in them three years ago and will have over 2600 units within 18 months, with more subdivisions on the way. There are over
46,000 residents within a 5 mile radius.
Hours will be 5:00P.M.-1:00 AM.

I always laughed at people who decided to get into this very competitive business and now I'm consisering it....go figure!

Russ

Russ-

Would you consider hiring guys from Dayton?

Not that far away...



[This message has been edited by Bill in Dayton (edited 01-05-2005).]

Russ, If you decide to open your club, and if I'm ever in the Lexington, KY area, I'd love to stop in and play a set with you. Good luck in whatever decision you finally make. Just don't ever forget the music. - Scott

sounds like the payscale in your area is the same as it is in Baltimore--low. Top resturants pay $150 for Fridays and Saturdays, $100 to $125 for weeknights, and some are down to $75 because cut-throat part-timers will play for that or even less. Makes it difficult to make a living some days. That's one of the many reasons I no longer do the nite-club scene.

Gary

russ,are you buying this outright or lease? i would rather pay 500 dollars a week to the bank which in time it would be mine,rather than pay 300 dollars a week for a lease which reduces each year,,,,a lot of people get fed up with their jobs,moaning bosses etc, and decide to work for themselves,my wife and i run our own business for 3 years,would i do it again? no,the pressure was just too much,what you are considering seems ok this fella has been there 30 years so hes making a living, just make sure you do all your homework and tick all the boxes,and good luck,mike

I leased a lounge in the Best Western Motel here for seven years. It was very successful. The main problem is the government. Taxes, fees, licenses, on and on.
Still, I made more money than I was making playing full time outside. Number one thing you have to worry about is employee theft. You must have good people you can trust, and then you don't really trust them. You must keep daily inventory.
My friend Hank The Lurker also had a successful lounge for ten years or so. He then had another one. In both cases he would have been even more successful if his employees hadn't stolen. And they were some of his best friends.
If I ever get back into the business, it will be in the extremely high-end part. Cater to the rich people. They have the money and will pay for top-quality entertainment, food, drinks, etc.
DonM

Russ I won't be much help, cause I'm sitting here shaking just thinking about what you’re thinking about doing. You won’t be able to enjoy your music! You’ll be too busy either counting money or counting losses, mopping the floors, fixing the toilet, fixing the roof, replacing the floor and the list goes on and on and on.

I had my hands full just putting up with 3 or 4 drunks laying brick for me and they were to lazy to steal my brick because they are heavy. That money that’s supposed to go into your cash register is very light. I bet any body here on the forum could carry off a couple million with no problem what so ever. What a nightmare!

I had payroll, workmen's comp, County license, building dept for permits, the folks at the brickyard, the only one in town, weren't very friendly then, the contractor I worked for, the people watching me lay the brick that were buying the house from the contractor, and I didn't even have to put up with the County Inspector that inspects restaurant food, the dept that inspects the kitchen and such Whew!! SCARY! SCARY! SCARY!

Maybe I shouldn’t have said all of this and maybe it’s a good thing. Again, I hope I haven’t offended anyone.

"A local bar/grill is for sale. Until now, I would never have even considered owning one."

The ONLY thing I can say about this...however much an issue getting a Liquor License Beer License is should point out if you want to try this or not. The state of the basic equipment of the place should be a factor as well. Getting the building inspected will also be a factor. The parking...and so on.



"I have a marketing/advertising/music/accounting background, was a bartender in college and have owned my communications company for years."

Well, you have a solid background for sure...just the day to day operations of a bar/grill are gonna toss all kinds of creative problems your way. Problems Im sure you noticed when being a bartender.

"Any experience or advice? "

This stuff changes around so much with so many little things, the only advice I could give...only do it if your willing to completely throw yourself in it for the next X amount of years.

I have had two friends, co-workers is probably more appropo, who made a ton of money during the Internet boom and both (independent of each other) decided to buy a restaurant. They had no experience in that marketplace whatsoever. Both very brilliant minds, great business people in their field (high-end networking equipment) and both failed miserably. One actually went bankrupt and the other sold his restaurant for a major loss.

My brothers and I always thought we might one day own a nice little Italian place. Boy did I learn a lesson.

Tommy

I don't even want to think about getting stuck for some strange reason with having to do the dishes and clean the grill do the toilet la da la da la da!

Capt. Russ....I own and manage my restaurant bar here in Cozumel Mexico for 20 years...and have been in the restaurant and entertainment business all of my life in one way or another....I can concur with the folks
that say it's a full time job...I'm here 16-18 hours a day every day, sometimes more...if
you want any kind of family or normal life, stay out of this business...some folks are of a different breed and need this type of
activity in thier lives....I will give you a little personal history....My place is now for sale also, it has been for the last two months..I AM TIRED and Sick.I'm going throught the prostrate problem and it's taking it's toll...I'm 65 years old and I have two children my son is 5 and my daughter is 6 and they need time with me which I can't give because of this business,
I need time with them which I can't get because of this business...I sing and perform here about 4 hours a night every nighttill closing....I'm here in the morning
doing inventory for ordering for the day...
then into the kitchen to prepare all of the sauces we use, I can't trust anyone else to do it and get the same results...before anyone says to delegate or get a manager or
find someone to trust, let me say, it is impossible....if you are 25-30 years old, go for it...if not, forget it...I won't go on to
make this longer, if anyone wants the long version, e-mail me...Good Luck Capt. Russ..
think hard my friend.....

[This message has been edited by Tony Rome (edited 01-05-2005).]

My family and I have always been pondering on getting a restraunt. But unless my folks get layed off, i dont think its going to ever happen.

just about everything relys on location, the rest is offering something unique, something that people want, but dont have, or the nearest one is far away.

Starting one is a large risk, reason being is most of them fail, a good way to survive is to join a franchise, but, you have to be loaded.

Also, prepare for late nights. On a positive side, if it's a success, you will have plenty of moola!

Phil

[This message has been edited by Pennywizz6 (edited 01-05-2005).]

I owned two bar /restaurants.I played in them.Lived above them and worked 14to16 hours a day seven days a week.The only time I made any real money was when I leasted my last one to a guy for five years.He eventually bought it.I owned the building outright,so I had no rent overhead or mortgage.Its an incredibly tough business and if you are going to do a lot of food you should know something about the kitchen.Otherwise you can find yourself at the mercy of your chef/cooks who are as unpredictable as some musicians.I am back playing music full time and thankful of getting out of the restaurant business finacially intact.If you do it I wish you every success,but think long and hard and do all your homework first.Terry

Thanks to everyone for the input...I even came back to the office after the job last night to check out your advice.

I have owned 5 successful businesses...successful because I stuck with what I know. Even though I've been perifially around this industry for almost 50 years, I don't know food, and that would be a killer.

What I'm considering is purchasing the
building, equipment and business at a premium of 20% more than the appraisal of the property. My managing partner would be the owner of the restaurant I play at (13 years). I do all the marketing for his two places....the most successful in the area.
He'll pay rent on the property, and his management team will run the place. I'll do marketing and play and/or hire the entertainment.

I'm considering this approach because the area this place is in is the fastest growing part of the town. At this point, I'm only interested in taking a flyer to bank on appreciation of the property, having a place to work occasionally and a chance to continue my working relationship with the folks I'm associated with now.

I'm not a kid, so I'm looking at getting in and out in 5 years. The folks I would be partnering with have two restaurants doing over $6 million a year. One They have had for 30 years. The other was purchased 2 years ago and was in the black the first year.

If I do this, I'll minimize my exposure and bank on not only property appreciation but
getting back a portion of the good will these folks will bring to the table.

Still thinking about it...and YES, if we do this, I'd love to have members from around the area come down to perform.

I appreciate all the help!


Russ

Don, Bill and Tony...you guys have BEEN THERE, and that's the advise I was looking for. The most successful folks I know in this business are type A personalities who love the business...many are second generation restaurant folks.

Your input, and the suggestion of a partnership (see above) have changed my interest to that of investor/musician with the purpose of property appreciation. The exposure with that approach is limited, I can addord it, and I will avoid what I really already knew, but didn't want to admit....major commitment of time, a bunch of headaches....I'm too old and don't need to try something I really don't know.

Thanks again to you "experts".

I'll let you know what happens.

Really appreciate it...


Russ

Capt Russ....If you decide that you really want the abuse and problems, you can allways come down here to Sunny Cozumel and buy mine,
I'll even stay for awhile to help and play for you....hehehe Good Luck and keep playing ....