So we've rehearsed, got a good solid song list, great promo kit...

Any suggestions on getting gigs?

How do you reach the decision maker?

Ever play for free or do the 'Pay to Play' thing?

If you are in an area that speciallizes in one kind of music and you do another like in Hawaii is that an advantage or a disadvantage?

Thanks

TP123

Gotta play what people want to hear, no matter where you are.....

I always tell myself 'I can play what I want to hear 20 hours a day, at home. the other four hours I'm in front of the audience, I'll play what THEY want to hear". It seems to work out well..........

Compared to others I'm still a new comer to playing gigs been at it for just under 2 years. I find that you have to be as much as a sales guy as you do a musician. I've spent many a lunch hour from my day job in my car calling potential clients at retirement homes on my cell phone. Sometimes it takes 5 phone calls before I reach the decision maker(activity director). Once I reach the director I give a sales pitch and tell them I will send a promo package. A number of times after they hear that I've played other retirement homes they just give me a date. Going back about 18 months ago my wife also assisted by sending promo packages to all the local hotels and banquet facilities. I've got a number of gigs that way as well. It's now a point where word of mouth is in action. But I still spend some lunch hours in the car making calls.

On the play for tips I've gave that try at coffee houses, Starbucks and a couple of local venues. Only one of the locations worked out where the tips were worth playing for.I still play there about every 6 weeks.



[This message has been edited by Stephenm52 (edited 11-03-2006).]

Tom,

After putting together a professional package, one that includes a bio, song list, CD, photo, business card, and testimonials, the next step is selling the product, which in this case is you. You have to essentially be a good salesman, public relations person, and above all, a good entertainer.

One of the first niteclub jobs I landed was at a local American Legion, a place I now refer to as the Blood & Guts Saloon. It was a smoke-filled bar where the locals gathered to get plastered and have some fun dancing. In order to get my foot in the door I offered to perform a free one-hour gig on an off night, an evening when they didn't normally have entertainment. The manager said "How about coming in about 5 p.m. on Sunday."

That Sunday was a nasty, rainy day, a bit cold and there were about a dozen rednecks siting at the bar sucking on cigarettes and sipping beer. When I walked in the door with my equipment I got the fish-eye stare that scares the hell of most people, and no one said a word. It was so quiet you could have heard a pin drop.

After setting up the gear, I looked around the room and took notice of the folks at the bar, of which a few were wearing cowboy hats. I fired up the keyboard and the first song I performed was "Swingin' Doors A Jukebox And A Bar-room." They loved it and I played there for another six years. The starting pay back then for 4 hours was $100, and when I left six years later I was getting $175--not lots of money, but better than the current average pay for this type of venue.

Once you become established, you will be able to quickly expand to other venues, and in a few years, if you play what the audiences want to hear, you will have more business than you can handle.

Good Luck old friend,

Gary

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Travlin' Easy

TP-

I don't know if this approach could work for you, but I had great success with it.

When I was starting out, I knew Nursing Homes/Retirement Communites and Senior Centers were going to be a big part of my client list. So, I would make a pre-visit phone call to find out who the Activity Director was. (The decision maker)I'd then put on some nice clothes...Nice shirt/sweater/pants...Not usually a sport coat or anything. I'd have my promo pack with me, and plan to visit several facilities in a given day. I walk in...ask to see so & so...Most of the time, I'd do this at the lunch hour...This is when many of the residents would be eating their meals in the dining, which, is also where the piano usually is. The AD comes out...shake hands, give her the promo pack and find out if she uses paid entertainment. (Some don't)...Then, as the conversation seems to be wrapping up, I'd say something like this:

"I'm sure you get phone calls all the time from people interested in being hired by you. I've heard from other AD's that that's a difficult way for you to really know what you're getting."

At that point, I was shocked by how many AD's immediately launched into their favorite horror story onhow they got burned.

Then I'd say:

"..Well, if you have a piano handy, I'd be happy to sit down right now and play/sing a few songs for any residents that you want to round up. That way, you'll know if I can do what I say I can and if your residents will like it. If they do, maybe we could look at some dates. If they don't, we'll shake hands and I won't take up any more of your time."

It wasn't perfect, but honest to god, It was darn close. I'd play 2-3 songs, mostly upbeat and sing...I made sure I made eye contact the residents she brought over. I must've acquired close to 60 accounts that way. Once you get rolling, you ask for other facilities they might suggest to you. Also, ask if the AD participates in something called area "RAP Meetings" (RAP=Recreation/Activity Professional) These meetings are usually held on a monthly basis and a dozen or so AD's get together and share resources...a terrific way to network. I've also offered to come in (years ago)and play a few songs for the attendeed at such a meeting, again with great results.

Over the last 10+ years, dozens of AD's have reminded me how they met me when I walked in. They often say it was the best impression any entertainer ever made to them...mainly because, I made it easy for them to make a decision.

That's about as close I ever came to playing for free.

Gary's story also is a good way, but as I'm sure he'd tell you...try and make sure if you ARE going to play for free, its a club that holds real promise. If its a club that rarely usues entertaiment, sure....you might be the guy the changes all that...but probably not. Better to target a club you know books X number of days of live music per month.

Bottom line, I try my best to make it easy for new clients to hire me and almost impossible to NOT keep booking me...Professionalism, price, volume discounts, interaction with residents (HUGELY important-MORE important than your actual musical skill, IMO..., etc...

Good luck...any other questions-fire away...There's a ton of experience on this board that can answer on this thread!

Bill in Dayton

www.billcorfield.com


[This message has been edited by Bill in Dayton (edited 11-03-2006).]

[This message has been edited by Bill in Dayton (edited 11-03-2006).]

[This message has been edited by Bill in Dayton (edited 11-03-2006).]

I do everything wrong. I mostly wait for people to call me. In recent years I've started turning down any place that has too much smoke.
I've raised my prices quite a bit also. I'm not working as much, but making more money when I do. If you deliver the goods, and act professionally, the jobs will come.
You have to arrive on time, dress appropriately, treat the place as if it were your own. Play the kind of music they want to hear, whether they know it ahead of time or not.
I never have understood why musicians will work so hard for a job, doing something they love to do, then want to take extended breaks all night.
Gary does it the right way, and I used to do all that too. It will work. And it is necessary to get started in your career.
Only freebies I've ever done were at my wife's church. I usually got other jobs from that, and they hire me for parties when funds are available.
One serious word of advice: Don't work too cheap. Once you establish a price at a place, it's usually impossible to get an increase, regardless of what they tell you up front. "Play for X$ for a while, and when you build it up, I'll pay more". Don't believe it. It's more likely the Easter Bunny will polish your golf clubs for you.
DonM

this is a great topic.The kind topic/answers that makes SZ great.

Where are the other OMB seniors like Scott Yee,UD ,etc ?

It's Friday night, and I suspect that UD and Scott are both working. I just returned from a double, I'm off tomorrow and have another double on Sunday--just another fun day in the life of an OMB entertainer!

Gary

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Travlin' Easy

Thanks all. Great info. I'm hip to the Senior Center thing and for a OMB its great but as a R&R and Blues duo there's really no fit there. We have no real interest in playing Hawaiian or reggae so we'll see. The one thing we do have going for us is that there are not a whole lot of classic rock bands here and we're good. We got a good 6 song demo CD, brochure and web site... if the gods are kind we'll be workin this holiday season.

Do you think its worth paying an agent 15%?
Thanks again!

Tom,

At one time I had four agents, and a couple provided me with a fair number of jobs during the first year or so. However, I always told them that I really didn't care what they charged the client--my fee for my services was for me and he or she could tack on their charges to the client's bill.

I also refused to sign any agreement with the agents that would not allow that customer to book me in the future without going through the agent. Of course there was a reasonable time frame of one year for this clause in their contracts. In your situation, especially living in an area that relies heavily on tourism, an agent or two might be a good option for becoming established.

Good Luck,

Gary

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Travlin' Easy

Very interesting topic as I am also looking at getting into nursing homes etc.

I am planning on playing acoustic guitar and running a drum maching when I go solo to at least add a beat. I also have a buddy that I can call to play lead guitar and then I would have the option of playing bass to round out the sound.

My question is how do you approach pricing if you are unfamiliar with "the going rate"? I live in a rural county with a small population but there a few guys doing this type of thing already but I have no idea what they charge.

Thanks for any help you can give.

One thing around here that makes Nursing Homes hard to book is the number of musicians that play them for free. They think they are "helping the old people", but in reality they are helping the people who own the NHs and who have plenty of budget to spend on entertainment. Most of the time they get what they pay for though!
I've had better success with nursing homes in small outlying communities. They are pretty much starved for good entertainment.
It seems all the NHs get a lot of church groups and Gospel singers, and this is good, but shouldn't have to be their only entertainment, music-wise.
As far as price goes, if you can get $100. for an hour show around here, you are way ahead of the game. I'm sure it's different in larger areas. $100. for an hour sounds o.k., but you have to really allocate 3 hours to allow for travel, setup, teardown visiting with residents, etc. Anything much less and it gets marginal really quickly.
The exceptions are for events such as annual Christmas parties or Octoberfests, etc. They are accustomed to paying a little more for these.
DonM

Don pretty much nailed it.

I work a large triangle between Cincy/Columbus and Lima Ohio (Which is an hour north of Dayton)...$100.00 is a good wage for many of the NH's.

With regard to using agents...most of the agents around here are also musicians...so I learned very quickly that I was only getting the gigs they didn't want. No thanks...IMO, Agents often inflate the cost of entertainment for venues to the point that they cease using live music.

On a different note, adding additional musicians to your act will only make you LESS desirable to nursing homes because your cost is higher than a solo act's is. So, its cool to add this or that, but if you're trying to establish a client list that keeps you working on a regular basis, stay small as possible. Add the other pieces in for special events for an extra fee...

Bill in Dayton
www.billcorfield.com

Thanks for the advice guys!

I will keep the second guitar as an option only for longer jobs/larger venues. I plan to book mostly as a solo.

The going rate here for nursing homes, etc.. is $100 to $125 an hour, but as Don says, you gotta figure an extra couple hours for setup and drive time.

Gary

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Travlin' Easy

Thanks Gary!

BTW, I want to thank all the members here for the help-I used the search function to do research on a small PA for nursing homes etc. and would up with a Yamaha StagePAS. It has enough power for these type of jobs and the sound quality is excelllent. I got the suitcase and stands too and it is a really nice outfit. If I expand later I can use the StagePAS as a monitor system.

Guys,

I've done senior centers and homes and I find them depressing (no matter how lucrative) and here in Hawaii they are very few of them and they want to hear 'Hawaiian music'. Besides I don't think ZZ Top and U2 will go over to well!

Thanks for ther other stuff tho...

Surprizingly there are really no talent agents here either. I think agents earn their 15% and like Gary as long as my fee is met just tell me when and where!

Heard of the 'pay to play' scheme? You basiclly buy the room... Club sez OK you give us $500-1000 then YOU sell tickets and once you meet your nut (500-1000) after that we split X% on the door (50/50 but mostly 60/40) If you are lucky you might bet a % of the bar and other than getting listed on their web site and putting up a flyer YOU are responsiable for all promo costs.

ya know I've been in this crazy business called show for over 25 years... played Vegas, Cruise ships, Europe, USO, Opener, Headliner, dives, bars, car shows... but I've never seen it like this and Hawaii is a micro of the mainland as its happening in SF, Miami, Detroit.

Is it me or do they think they are doing me a favor by 'letting' me play?

Rock on

Tom

A few other things for discussion:

Are ads in local 'alternative' papers worth it?

Are yellow pages ads worth it?

What do you do to promote?

Which is most important:
DVD or Video Demo
CD Demo
Brochure
Web Site
???

Is it ever worth it to play for free?

Tom,

Newspaper advertising is expensive, yellow pages ads are as well, and I equate both to firing a shotgun up in the air and hoping one of the tiny pellets falls on the target--it just ain't practical--at least not in this part of the world.

Web Sites must be promoted with print media or no one will ever find you, even if you use dozens of keywords. Yes, you can find companies that will register you with the search engines, but that too can be expensive, and to date I have never booked a job directly from my web site and I just renewed the site's .com for the fourth time. This is not to say that people have not booked me after looking at the web site--they have. However, what led them to the site was printed information with the site address--not a search engine.

For me, and many other OMB entertainers, direct mail is the best approach when followed up with a phone call, and finally personal contact with the prospective clients. Direct mail targets your clients, thereby eliminating the shotgun approach. It has been the most effective form of advertising that many business owner use, and it's one of the least expensive. The trick is to develop a mailing list, which can easily be done using Google's search engine.

As for media, DVD's can be effective, but most of the folks doing the hiring are very busy and don't have time to watch a DVD. For me CDs seem to work best because they can listen to me whild driving home in their car, or while they are doing something else on the job. A neat thing to do with the CD is to print your phone number and web page information on the label when you make them. Just one less thing that person has to look for.

Brochures must be very professional looking, and while this is not a difficult task, they are somewhat expensive, averaging about $3 each, plus another $1 to mail them. If you have 100 perspective clients, this translates to about $400. Fortunately, this can be written off in your Schedule "C" when you do your taxes at the end of the year.

Playing for free has both positive and negative aspects. Yes, it can open lots of doors for you, which could potentially result in long-term employment. The trick here is not to do this regularly or you'll quickly develop the reputation among club owners as the guy who plays for free.

Good Luck,

Gary

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Travlin' Easy

When I switched to OMB, I took a job at an after hours restaurant. There were two in town, and the one I went to was the newest one, with no business. Within a month, we were kicking the other places ****!. All musicians, bartenders, and more important, owners and managers, plus frequent restaurant and club customers went to this place after the regular clubs/rerstaurants closed. I worked from 1:00 to 4:00 AM 6 nights a week, and from 5-9 PM on week-ends and went to my day job at 7:30 AM. The week-end band, run by an old friend I had worked with before hired me to play 9:00 to 1:00, so weekends, I worked from 5:00 PM to 4:00 AM. That was in the mid 70's, and I haven't had to look for a job in the last 30 years. I have no promo package, photo, demo c/d..nothing, and I work as much as I want to....5 or so jobs a week.

The after hours clubs are gone, but this approach established me with the area decision makers. I now go to lunch and an occasional dinner at the upscale restaurants I work (quit working bars when I quit drinking in the 80's). I never approach owners/managers, but they stop by the table, appreciate my business and call me when they need me. This approach worked GREAT for me...still does, thankfully. Now, I book corporate communications work (video and print production, research, etc.) plus corporate playing jobs at the upscale restaurants,all of which pays much better than restaurant jobs.


Russ

All of the above comments are valid for starting out...but after you start working, it is the venue you play that brings work your way..Remember when you play a club, restaurant, party etc...Breaktime is not breaktime..This is the time to build re pore with your future employers....now is the time to schmooze..it is part of the business, a big part.

If you can be outward, friendly, personable, and honest[no fake..putting on the dog]..You will get more than enough work.

Our problems are too many people wanted us on the same dates..

What is wrong with having your wedding on a Tuesday afternoon...anyway..

Making your act UNIQUE is key to having the public want your services....dont be just "another cover or solo act" they are a dime a dozen....ask yourself what would make you stand out from all the other acts, bar bands, and dj's out there?
What could you do to stand out in a crowd and make perspective paying clients say "WOW" I have to have these guys!!!!

I say that if you want to work steady with
a good future, salary and great working conditions, then buy a club, restaurant or bar....then you don't have to worry about finding work and playing in nursing homes or
for free, built your own business while working for yourself, OH, BTW, if there is a problem, you only have yourself to blame.
TR

"Making your act UNIQUE is key to having the public want your services....dont be just "another cover or solo act" they are a dime a dozen....ask yourself what would make you stand out from all the other acts, bar bands, and dj's out there?"

Take this how its intended...

Sometimes "Unique" can come off "gimmicky or contrived". There's really not a whole lot left of novel approaches for OMB-ers. IMO, the nature of what we do is already unique enough. Everyone is different, of course, but I come at from the other end of the spectrum. I wear low-key attire when I perform...Other than at formal gigs-you'd have a really hard time picking me out as the musician where I perform. I always wear nice trousers, nice, shirt, sweater, tie, etc....whatever...Everything is usually dry-cleaned, but I don't wear anything that's flashy. Its just not my style. I look professional, clean and appropriate, I'm told...

I don't talk much either...They didn't hire me to tell stories or jokes or anything else. If the evening leads me to a naturally funny moment, sure, I'll play it up a tad...but not too much. I say good evening at the start of every set, remind them a few times a night of my website, when I'll be back, etc. I've found that forcing things, at least for me, doesn't work so well.

At nursing homes/retirement communities I will talk a little more in the way of some trivia, some games, use some techniques to engage the residents and get them more involved. AD's LOVE it when you can stimulate their residents in a variety of ways. Its got to be short and sweet, because most people in a NH have the attention span of my 11 year old, which isn't much.

I play, I sing....That's it. I keep the songs rapid fire, learn requests, take tight breaks and give the clients every reason in the world to keep hiring me. From my client feedback forms...I'm usually described as warm, flexible and professional. That works fine for me...

Donnie's point is well taken, but know your limits, I'd suggest...

Bill in Dayton
www.billcorfield.com

[This message has been edited by Bill in Dayton (edited 11-06-2006).]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bill in Dayton:
[B]
Donny's point is well taken, but know your limits, I'd suggest...[b/]

Bill what I'm saying is BE UNIQUE not with flashy dress clothes, disco lights, &
Top Hat.... But with "YOUR MUSICICAL PERFORMANCE".......that will say it all ....the audiences ears will the deciding factor....a good repoire with the listeners or dancers is not a requirement its a MUST!
This is a people business, & must be treated as such at ALL Times......The way you sound when you play songs is the time to be different then every tom, dick & harry out here hitting the ivories.....people have heard most of these songs hundreds of times so when a musician just changes the arrangement not much or vocals just a bit to give it a hip sharper edge it makes ears perk up from the ordinary & that will give you a personal unique Signature all your own.....not some sparkle shirt or fancy flashing lights....you have to take your soul when you perfoprm & meld it with the crowd to become ONE night after night!!!
Repetitious success will follow for sure only if you do it right.

Good Luck

For once in his life, Fran is dead right. All, and I mean ALL, of the steady-working pro's will use break-time to shmooze visiting club owners, influential customers, etc. It truly is a word-of-mouth type of business.

Funny thing though, Tom. I left Hawaii two years ago and although I had pretty much retired from active playing and concentrated on jazz composition and arranging, I found that having introduced myself to (members of) the two hottest jazz groups on the island (Big Island), and sitting in on a couple of their gigs, I was suddenly on constant call. This led (somewhat reluctantly) to doing most of the resort circuit on the Kona side including solo piano bar gigs in the resort hotels. Obviously there is a shortage of KB players on the Big Island as I'm not that great a piano player (always wished I could play great "lounge" piano with the limitless repetoire (sp)). I know things are quite different on Oahu which I always thought of as NYC with a beach. Where are you located?

BTW, Hawaiian music gives me acute nasuea and on the Big Island, only a few tourist traps feature it. It's usually either jazz or rock. Maybe it's time to move, much cheaper to live over on the Big Island as well.

Aloha,

chas

Good Lord! I just found myself agreeing with Fran, and Donny hit the nail on the head as well. Additionally, dress for the occasion. I cannot count the number of times I've encountered OMB performers wearing ragged jeans and a T-shirt that looks like he just checked the oil of his car with it. If you look great, sound great and put on a hell of a show, you'll have all the work you can handle.

My 2007 calander is rapidly filling, and I already have a couple 2008 jobs booked because the folks that missed out in 2007 want to make sure they are not left out the following year. Yep, you have to be a business person as well. This means you must keep meticulous records, become a booking agent for yourself, be a good accountant, and every other person that a major company would normally employ. Use programs such as Quicken, Quick Books, Turbo-Tax, Photo Shop, Print Shop, MS Word, Nero-Burn, Acid Pro, and lots of others to make all these facets of business come together and you'll find that your computer is equally as important as your keyboard when it comes to running an OMB business. When my wife retires this spring, she will become my booking agent--at least I hope she does. If this is the case, maybe I'll get a few more free days for sailing.

Good Luck,

Gary

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Travlin' Easy

Exactly Gary.....if Carol needs any tips let her talk to my booking secretary

I agree 200%.....SHMOOZING is the key to it all on gigs......breaks? what the heck is that?....get out there and mingle, work the crowd, shake hands, kiss the girls, give out cards, talk up your future gigs.....& when your done go right back on stage and give em hell to back up your hype!

Everyone has given some excellant ideas, ones that were used starting with my early band days.

I did want to state what I have experienced with my web site.

I felt a good web site in today's age would be a very good thing to do. My thought was mainly either when talking to a new client by phone or in giving a business card with my web site listed and clearly mentioning on the card there was a web site demo that this could be a very fast and easy way to be heard in a world when people who want info want it fast. Especially considering that a lot of people including musicians and even including musicians who play workstations have no clue what it is we do or what we can sound like on arranger keyboards.

As it turns out, most of my gigs have come about because of my web site.

I have gotten many gigs through a sax player who is prominently known in this area and is kind of like the Lester Lanin of the panhandle. I gave him a card, he heard what I could do and has used me as a solo, duo, trio, quintet and big band.

Also, just recently I have become the first call entertainment for a five star restaurant where I have played a few times now already for brunches and will be used whenever they have brunches, wine tasting parties or similar special events in the future. In this case they found my site through a link on the local jazz society. The guy listened to my stuff, knew everything about me from the bio, knew where I had played etc.

So if you plan to use a web site, I'd suggest finding appropriate sites where you can have your link or where they agree to a cross link putting their link on your site.

Best
Scott http://ScottLMusic.com

Sigh ....... I'm all shmoozed out for a while. I'm happy in the role of "musical wallpaper" now. I don;t need the loud crowds, or the drunk women, or the bright lights and late hours. I just sing, and I play ........ as good as i can, and I try to pick tunes that the crowd likes.
No more "shmaltz" for UD ...... I'm calming down and trying to really carve out a newer, less glitzy niche.

Everyone is entitled to my opinion, after all.

As all FULL TIME Pros know....Shmoozing is the "LIFE LINE" without it your dead in the water....


Your getting old TOOOOOOOOO fast, your still a youngster, take a look back at your 8x10 band glossys for a recharge &
"Rock The Casbah Baby!!" !



[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 11-08-2006).]

Hmmmmm, food for thought.
Or maybe, just MAYBE ..... the waters have changed - from entertainer to musician. There has always been a difference in my world, and these days - I fell more like the maestro than the jester.
It's all good.

Dave, I'm with you. I never was an entertainer...just a player, and I've had more work than I can handle. Enjoy watching a good entertainer who can also REALLY play, but they're getting pretty scarce.

Russ

Dave you don't believe that for a minute..A player that doesn't entertain is yesterday's newspaper..or you better have an entertaining front person..

I know, I have been on both sides..

What has made Dave a success is not his playing , but his entertainment value...He knows this as well as anyone..

Stop BS ing us and get back to work...The Entertainment work..

Dammmit... I miss going to Uncle Dave shows with Fran, watching my Uncle D perform taught me many things....!!!!

Fran and DNJ: I respect both of you, but I think that there's much more to the "entertainer vs. musician" issue.

I'm in my 51st year of working at least 4 jobs a week (first paid job was at an officers club in Alaska at age 10). I've had 9 weeks off-total in that time, and have been the highest paid single in the area since I started doing a single about 15 years ago. I have been honored to have known, know and worked with some of the country's top musicians, and learned from every one of them.

I'm a frequent performer at state events for the governors of several states, the presidents of major universities and private colleges, major fortune 500 and 200 corporations and professional performance groups (jazz arts foundations, philharmoic orchestras, etc.). Performance income this year will be in excess of $60,000.00 and I turned down as many jobs as I took.

If that makes me "dead in the water", or "Yesterday's Newspaper", so be it.

Income from film scores for industrial films for major worldwide coroporations will be in excess of $100,000.00 this year. Add to that the production fees for writing and producing the films the sound scores are created for in excess of $750,000.00 (income for my company-not all personal income).

I don't tell jokes, do routines, do novelty songs...I don't even talk at all during performances. I have no PR package, demo CD or headshot...no website, no business card or stationery and don't record any music on an arranger. I don't post work on here, but, If you want to know if I know what I'm doing, ask Nigel or Tony Mads, whom I've shared work with off-line.

This is a serious lifetime undertaking for me, which has generated nearly 50% of my income, paid for an instrument collection worth millions, put myself and three kids through graduate school with no student loans
and made it so that I never have to work another day in my life if I don't want to (but I REALLY do)!(Could have retired comfortably 20 years ago).

I have friends who head music departments, are in demand for Broadway shows, lead orchestras...all individuals who are at the top of their games and who earn 6 figure incomes and much respect from audiences, their peers and the artistic cummunity.

Sorry for the rant, but if you really want to, you can succeed on your own terms if you have enough talent and desire by placing the emphasis on musicianship over entertainment.

And, you don't have to sing show tunes, suck up to drunks or rednecks, do comedy routines or work for jerks to do it.

I laugh a little at the "entertainers" who place style over substance (not my preference, obviously).

Is my approach right and the ones others take wrong? Of course not, but, believe me, to say that a non-entertainer is "dead in the water"
in this business is a little short sighted.

It's all about finding your place, figuring out how to "get over" and working your A** off to continuously improve and achieve satisfaction, however you define it.

I think it all comes down to what the individual needs as a result of involvement in the business. An entertainer needs the positive feedback of appreciative fans...they need to "feel the love".

Others (me included) get their satisfaction from the creative process, the playing of increasingly sophisticated, difficult music,
recognition from their peers and completion of high level performances and projects.

WOW, I'm out of breath!

I feel SO MUCH BETTER!

With MUCH care and RESPECT...

"Boring old Russ"

[This message has been edited by captain Russ (edited 11-09-2006).]

[This message has been edited by captain Russ (edited 11-09-2006).]

[This message has been edited by captain Russ (edited 11-09-2006).]

Russ, you missed my point.. First of all what makes you think you are not an entertainer?
Are you personable, friendly, know how to converse with people, maybe talk about common interest with your customers...If you said yes to any of these..you probably are an entertainer,,,and don't realize it..

I was not slamming you, it just so happened I followed your post...but if you think musicianship alone makes you successfull than I disagree.. I think showmanship is your success..

Even great musicians without personality will get boring..What keeps acts fresh is the individual performer and how people relate to them..

Russ Do you sing? If so it is hard to "sell" a song without being entertaining..

Sorry, I think you are wrong..you must be an entertainer..

Telling jokes is not what a real entertainer does..Being able to be friend your audience is what a entertainer does..

Fran, to an extent, we're talking semantics, here. In my mind, I'm a musician first, a businessman in the music business 2nd and an entertainer last.

This approach has worked well for me. No one plays in a vaccume, so an element of entertainment always exists. It's just not my primary focus.

And it never will be.

Here's hoping we all find our place in the business and achieve success, however we define it.


Russ

I agree with Russ in that we are talking semantics ... Some of us look at an "entertainer" as one who engages the audience with a certain "shtick" if you will, while if a 'musician' doesn't do that he/she is not an entertainer ... personally, I think that, once again, it comes down to the venue ... If someone like Russ is playing in a quiet setting for people who are there to listen to him, and the audience enjoys what they are hearing, then he has entertained them and is an entertainer ... Would he be as successful in front of an AC crowd ... maybe not, but does his style make him any less an entertainer than Fran, Donny, Gary, DonM or some of the others ... not in his venue it doesn't, and the style of the aforementioned may not work at all in Russ' venue ...

As long as the customer goes home happy, we have ENTERTAINED !!! ... we may all do it in different ways, but that doesn't make one way 'better' than another ...

Personally, I have seen many entertainers who were not 'musicians' ... but rarely have I seen a musician who was not an entertainer in some venue ...

To paraphrase Donny "Whatever works, Baby!!!"

BTW ... Having heard his work, I can attest to Russ' "musicianship", and working as many gigs as he does, he must also be an "entertainer" ...

And having seen Donny at work, I can attest to his being an "entertainer" and a "musician" ....

Sorry, Fran ... I just haven't caught your act yet....

t.



[This message has been edited by tony mads usa (edited 11-09-2006).]

Russ, don't worry about the rant, I'm glad you did. I would have never known of your many accomplishments. There's lots of talent here, which is why I keep coming back I'm hoping that something from someone will rub off. Of course it's hard work, but rewarding for sure and I'm not talking all in the monetary department either.

On top of that I know your a gentlemen I remember the unsolicted phone call you made to me giving me some encouragement when I first started visitng the forum year and a half ago.



[This message has been edited by Stephenm52 (edited 11-10-2006).]

Stephen, Russ called me out of the blue back then too...but I wasn't home.........I never heard from him again

I wasn't home either he called my cell phone. He did try back again the first time he missed me the numbers on caller ID matched.

I am just teasing Russ...he is one of the "good guys"..

Wow! Who said jazz musicians were a bunch of stoic, intellectual, misfits, incapable of a good "rant". You tell 'em, Russ.


chas




[This message has been edited by cgiles (edited 11-10-2006).]

But Russ, what have you done LATELY?
Just kidding.
Here's some nearly useless information:
Do you know that when you edit a post more than once, you can delete the other lines that say, "this post edited by so-and-so"?

Of all the people on the SZ, I think I would like to catch Russ's "non-show" the most.
Anyway, there is more than one way to catch a fish, or book a job, or entertain an audience.
Personally I have made hundreds of dollars in the music business myself.
DonM

O.K. Just to explain, hundreds isn't very much. It's a little joke.

Don,

I'm working on my second million--I gave up on the first!

Cheers,

Gary

------------------
Travlin' Easy

Well I can hardly argue with Russ's credentials.

I hope I can do half as much in MY lifetime.

It's also hopeful to me that he is still in the business at his age (in his 60's??) - I am half that age and worried about longevity already (!)

I do notice however that he signed off with "MUCH care and RESPECT" etc after having uttered the line...

"I laugh a little at the "entertainers" who place style over substance (not my preference, obviously)."

I'm not sure that was such a respectful thing to say.

Perhaps he is talking about the WORST kind of entertainer that degrades two art forms ("Musicianship" and "Entertaining") I'm not sure.

You see, whilst there ARE many forms of "Entertaining" (a broad term to be sure) I think that being an Entertainer AND a Musician are two seperate (yet of course "linked") art forms, and I myself am struggling to be good at both.

I don't think anyone should be derisive of either.

I know myself coming from an acting background (college trained) that it's an art to entertain the audience even with simple, direct, topical stage banter - hell there's a lot of different ways to do even THAT!

In my Duo work, I work with my wife to be a "serious" musician AND vocalist AND Entertainer (I'm a vocalist first, an Entertainer second and a Musician third) but there you have 3 distinct, difficult and involved disciplines.

I'm still waitng for the day when I get good at all 3!!!

Here's hoping....

Hmmmmmm, while that's mostly true - it's dated. I really have had a metamorphasys of sorts. I think I need new venues to support my new style, but I believe they're out there. I can work 6 nights a week in loud, tacky, make-believe la-la land joints, like I used to, but I just don't want it anymore.

Fran's right that I have never been a "player's player". I was schooled on woodwinds in thge seventies, and could hold myown on clarinet, sax and flute for a whiule, but as disco took over - I switched to piano, then arrangers and I miss the actual "playing" I did before I started working.

We all make sacrifices for our lifestyle, and I just decided to sacrifice a different PART of mine. I'll get by on less money for a while and see if I can stay happy that way.
It would be a death sentance for me to go into a top40 sequence room again. Yuk.
And the senior jobs are mostly days, and now I have the "kids", so I'm forced to restructure my performance dates.

For the record, at tonight's show - I'll be performing with some of my students before and after the play, so I still get a chance to jam !

Entertainment comes in many forms. I looking for the audiences that are not trying to yell, scream, pick up a lover, sing-a-long, or act stupid.

There MUST be someone out there like that !

Im really not impressed with credentials of any sort, .......I do what I do for the last 40 yrs, support my family and like to keep a low profile...no need to toot my horn...I let my fans do that....

If your happy in the way you make a living thats great....if not choose another road...
have a ball out there.

"What could you do to stand out in a crowd and make perspective paying clients say "WOW" I have to have these guys!!!!"

Take my clothes off??



roflol

TP

Easy question Tom--just play what the audience wants to hear and play it well. You'll end up with more work than you can handle.

Merry Christmas old friend,

Gary

------------------
Travlin' Easy

Aloha,

I want to thank you all for your great insights and sharing your knowledge with me. When you come to Hawaii (Oahu) the MaiTai's are on me!!

May I offer a little background, a little insight of my own and ask a few more questions?

I've been in R&R since I was 14 when I roadied for my brother who was playing with Mytch Ryder and the Detroit Wheels. Been in bands forever (including one whose members later formed 'The Romantics') mostly as a front man and singer and later some Rhy. Guitar and later still keys and now (due to neccesity) as a OMB. Played on the same bill with a few biggies like America, Wille Nealson, Bob Seger, GFRR, and once played a party for the cast of Miami Vice! Through the years I've also been an actor (national TV commericals, films, TV) and on-air radio personality (Mom sez I have the perfect face for radio!!) as well as a writer for music and A/V production magazines and WWW sites. Stand up commedian grad of the SF School of Comedy (Robin Williams, Sinbad, etc.) RIA certified recording engineer and a degreed telecommunications professional. Have played it seems like every dive from one end of this great land to another... but also got luckly and was a 'headliner' and opening act on Cruise ships, USO and in Vegas. So as background you can see I've been around a little... Anyway about 4-5 years ago I was doing a gig in London and afterwards we went to this pub and there I saw my first OMB. I was hooked... No more fooling with musicians who can't read or follow directions, spliting the check, playing what others want, etc. etc. So after 9/11 my 1 year contract with cruise line was canceled as they went belly up and so I decided to move to Hawaii (have worked for Amer. Hawaii Cruises in the past and have had a place on Maui to detox after a gig for years) and Oahu.

I love Hawaii (as I'm a water person) but it has effectively killed my 25 year plus music career. (I've only ever held a 9-5 once for about 4-5 years). In the last 3 years I've had maybe 25 gigs... mostly parties and a few bars. (this will be the 2nd time in 20 years that I don't havea NYE gig and frankly I don't know what to do with myself...) As for 'island' music... ever heard 'slack key'? Almost all the bands here play the same style of 'local' music which is a cross between Reagae and Hawaiian and sorry but I'd rather sit in the garage and play with myself than play that. At the same time _every_ time I've played folks have been impressed (at least that what they said). I do a wide variety of tunes from Sinatra to the Stones but only a handfull of hawaiian and ragae (sorry but that music is the only music other than perhaps arabic that does not speak to me) tunes.

I guess I fall into the 'Entertainer' area... as yes I think we are there to entertain them and put on a show and yes I think that (at night in bars and dance venues) does call for a little flash (threads, lights, etc.) and I feel it also calls for some communication with the audience. Too many don't. I tell some jokes, intro the tunes an talk about the music, make fun of some news or someone in the audience... as well as sing tunes that sound as good or better than the original artists. I have spent 3 years seqenceing and arrangeing tunes for my voice, style, etc. and I play keys on top... sometimes add a guitar player and/or a drummer. But my #1 is I'm a singer first, then a KB player, then a comic. And the upshot is it all sounds great and everyone has a fun time.

So why am I unloading all this...
well I need your advice and I guess just to comisserate.

I've created a great demo CD, dynomite brochure, full color biz cards, web site, MP3's... I'd welcome any constructive cretique on.

I can get the materials out there but;
• having a hard time getting it into the right hands

• have a hard time following up (as I guess I'm affraid of rejection and I'm a s&%ty negotiator which is why I've always had a good agent).

• Ever been to Hawaii or lived here? When you live here as a newcommer there's a definte anti-haole (anti-white) bent to many. So I've dealt a little with that and some have let me know in no uncertain terms that the 'Aloha' is for the tourists and that they "no need no classic rock haole boy play here".
That said when I played in Waikiki the tourists LOVE ME and are glad to take a break from 'local' music. I had a great gig at a club there but the Music Mgr. there who had promised me a regular gig after I worked the hoildays... gave the gig to 2 friends of his. (so what else is new?)Some, not all and not most, are like the old song sez 'they smile in your face ahhhh the backstabbers' and can be very passive agressive. Oh well the weather is gorgous
as is swiming in the ocean every day!

Sooooooo maybe I should just consider buying or starting a club? Done it twice before on small scale and Tony has a great point. If you are going to work that hard might as well do it for yourself! Has anyone any advice on it. I have an awesome biz plan,
name and idea and even some funding... anyone wanna be my partner?

I guess the other thing that's hard is after being so lucky all these years so see that its come to me playing for $50 and tips at a local place is a bit hard to deal with. But I've always said "The music is its own reward!" Maybe i should just give up... which is the first time I've ever felt that way. I'm turning 50 and started when I was 15 so that ain't a bad run... and I never went to rehab nor declared bankrupcy so...

The other thing about being a OMB is this... Just last night I played at a local coffee house and heard this;
"Is he really playing and singing?"
(I always play a solo piano piece when I hear this)
As for singing... well in the past I've made it my business to sound just like the original artists (think Danny Gains at the Mirrage) but in the past say 5 years have worked on my own style (folks swear that I must be black... on the inside... as I sing soulfully sort of like music you'll hear in the movie
"The Committments")
Or you'll here...
"How is he able to play all those insturments at the same time?"
Q: Is there an easy way to explain ot address what we do either verbally or in a printed sentence or two?

Lastly... any advice? Getting the gig is not as easy as it seems is it no matter if its paradise or the streets of Detroit?

OK I'm back to baking Xmas cookies!

Thanks for listening to an ol' Rock and Roll war horse like me and...
Happy Holidays!

Tom www.tompatrick.com
reelcom1@earthlink.net

PS: I have not participated as well as I should or could here at SZ and that was due to a conflict with someone who is now gone (and has connections here in the islands) so in 2007 I hope to share my mano (knowledge) as well as learn from yours. I'm also the former Editor @ Large for Singer & Musician Magazine. A great resource... http://www.singermagazine.com
and Onstage Magazine http://www.onstage.com
And I am starting a new publication you'll be interested in!
I will post a recent article I wrote on OMB and I welcome your thoughts!

Also sorry for my spelling

S&M has changed its web site to: http://www.ilivetoplay.net

Here's some of my stuff FWIW:
http://www.ilivetoplay.net/index.cfm?siteid=120&itemcategory=26936&priorId=0&pid=26930
http://www.ilivetoplay.net/index.cfm?siteid=120&itemcategory=26948&priorId=0&pid=26930

TP123, how much does a beer cost in Hawaii? Do they ever have a cover charge? If so, how much is it? Curious... I would think the standard of living is at least twice as much as where I am... actually, probably more than that.

------------------
Bill
SmallGig.com

Hi,
Like anywhere it depends on the place but anywhere from $3-4 to special brands at $6-8. Some clubs have cover ($5-20) but most have miragted to free and jacking the drink and food prices a bit to try to get folks in the seats. The real problem is a lack of clubs supporting live Classic Rock, Blues and Country.
There was a place called 'Lewer's St.' and then Outrigger did a hugh construction project that is due to be done late next year... on that St. were 3-4 clubs that had A) a place big enough and then B) have ClasRocBluCty music. Additionally there are the many clubs that have Jazz, reggae and hawaiian OR worse yet DJ's and Karaoke is also popular. (Why is it anyone and everyone thinks they can sing well?) And yes there are the late hours but there's nothing quite like havin an audience in your palm and/or packed and jammin on da dance floor!
Its a great feeling when someone comes up at the end of the night sweat dripping from their brow gives me a nice big tip and sex "man dat was fun!".
Ya know?
So my real problem is perhaps like you I'm addicted to performing and would do it for free... but don't tell them that! And to be fair I have met some truly incrediable people who truly are 'Aloha' so that makes the disappointments worthwhile. (With this latest shaft from a club I felt like that guy in Animal House who looking at his wrecked car is told "Face it Bluto you F&^%ed up... you trusted us!")
Yes the cost of living is about 40% more than the bay area of Cali. but I got tired of not being able to swim in the ocean! And the sunsets are spectacular.
But who knows maybe someday soon.... We'll have the first annual (ok 2nd as Tony down Mexico way is first! SZ Jam in Hawaii at my new club which will have every kind of music OTHER than reggae and hawaiian. Just a little grass shake somewhere by a bay where we'll play great tunes and dance the night away under clear hawaiian skies... damn that sounds like a song right there!
Happy holidaze
T

Tom...
I am really enjoying your posts. Thanks for the links to the articles you have written. You are a real showman.
Eddie

Why is it folks don't think what OMB's do is real music?

The public is infected with a DJ mentality plain & simple!

I asked this before but...

How do you or do you address that by talking about or explaining MIDI?

I think when the public sees your keyboard playing without you, in the background, you've shown them that you don't even have to be near the keyboard. Why then would they think your actually playing unless you sound better ....or worse than the keyboard alone.
In my opinion once you walk away and leave your keyboard playing, you've raised doubts.

Correctomundo!

Ian


------------------
Remember to leave good news alone.

Aloha,

Your story sounds a bit like mine, without all the accomplishments .

First, I'm a businessman, making money to pay for the nice things we have.

Secondly, I'm a wanna-be musician, based on prior years of playing keyboards in many venues.

Third, I spent an entire summer putting together songs, promos, etc, with intent on supplementing my income, while having fun.

So, I finally got booked, played a 3 hour coffee house job for $50.

End result? - Next day put all my gear on eBay and went back to being a hobbiest

Conclusion - The dream and addictive draw NEVER ends. I find myself wanting to repeat this scenario again and even now, have another keyboard, mic, etc - uh oh.

For me, there are not enough hours in the day to compile the necessary goods to take to the public. But my dream will never die and as long as I remember to NOT QUIT MY DAYTIME JOB, I'll be OK.


zuki

Tom, I just read your 2 articles... excellent advice on a very important subject often overlooked. Thanks for sharing.

Glenn

Donny just about hit the nail on the head about a DJ mentality that's out there.

We live in a time of instant gratification with just about anything and everything 'on demand'. So people think you can just press a button and play.

In large part some of the reasons for this can be levelled at midifiles which are essentially 'press a button and play', and, as mikeathome1 mentioned, starting a midifile and walking away from the keyboard is gonna kill your credibility stone dead. I can only suppose this is done for those types of acts that like to wander around schmoozing with the audience with a radio mike. That's fine in itself, but fer crying out loud don't do it with a keyboard. If you're a karaoke act, then use a bloody karaoke machine.

Add to this the average sales guy in a mall music store who bashes out a one-finger version of In The Mood upwards of 30 times on a Saturday afternoon and you have a combination of some very powerful factors why arranger keyboardists just can't get no respect,

I've had, and no doubt so have many other forum folks too, people come up and actually say that I only press a button and play something, whereupon I say to them, okay YOU press a button and play ME something. Usually it never fails to bring on a sheepish grin from them and they walk quietly away. I'd like to have added 'with a new respect for what we do', but no, they're just walking away back into that instant-everything society.

As UD would say . . . arrrrrrgh!!!!

Well said, Renig!

Russ

I see, even on TV, more and more acts, even big acts using backing tracks. Like you said if you're gonna go that way admit it leave the keyboard home and keep some credibility at least for your vocal ability.

If you want to provide music during breaks, stay away from midi files. It really does raise the issue of playing credibility.

On many of my breaks,I play MP3's of well recognized originals with vocals. If they hear Frank Sinatra, Gretchen Wilson, Elvis or Pavarotti for that matter...they know its RECORDED.

Break music is not always appropriate or wanted. But, if it is appropriate, stay away from midi or run the risk of being considered a DJ rather than a musician.

Eddie

Precisely, Eddie. In breaks, I use a small walkman CD player plugged into the line-ins on my PA and play an appropriate selection.

I agree with Eddie--NEVER use midi files for breaks. MP3s with vocals from well known artists are the way to go. Too many people come up to me and ask if I have this or that song in the machine. I politely tell them there are no songs in the machine-they're all in my head. And, if the song is not in my head I cannot play it for them. There has been times when I allow them to stand there and watch me perform the song they requested. At the end of the song they are often quite amazed that I'm really playing and singing the song and it's not Karaoke or a CD. If I had $5 for every time someone has come up to me and said "Wow, I just realized it was you singing and playing the songs." I could have retired 10 years ago.

Cheers,

Gary

------------------
Travlin' Easy

Thanks you guys... great stuff!

I agree and never walk away and that's why I make it a point of playing _a solo piano piece_ at some point early in the set. I was just wondering if anyone had some sort of good canned 2-3 sentences that explains MIDI and OMB well. Folks want to know about how we are able to play all the instruments at once.

Gary love that technique/idea!

Anyone else?

HAPPY NEW YEAR!

Tom

I have had the same problem with credibility. Sometimes I nudge the keyboard with the heel of my left hand while playing, to try and prove I'm really playing.

I never pretend to do anything, and hate having to prove anything, but that is where we're at.
Bernie

So the club owner sez;
"Why should I hire you musicians? You knock up my waitresses. Never pay your tab. Knock holes in the walls with your gear and never show up on time! I'll hire a DJ he'll play the hits and it'll sound just like the original"

How can one reason with someone like that?

...so I say, "I don't drink, so no tab. My wife won't let me knock up waitresses. My gear is worth WAY more than your wall, plus I have liability insurance. But the main thing: You've been hiring the wrong musicians."
DonM

Does anyone do mail outs and/or use brochures or demo CD's

Damn these 'promo kits' can really add up da $

THANKS to all for sharing your knowledge in this thread I really appreicate it.

Next time you come to Hawaii the first Mai Tai is on me! (but then again I'm a messy drinker!!)

The cost of my promo kits averages about $4 including postage. The secret to successful direct mail advertising is the follow-up phone calls and visits. Additionally, you should do some preliminary work as well, such as determining who the person is that does the hiring so you can send the package directly to that individual. This helps keep the package out of the junk mail category and directs it to the person who will do you the most good.

I do about 4 to 5 mailouts each year, and my success rate has been quite high. It's a continuing process, similar in many ways to any marketing venture. The product you're marketing in this case is YOU. I've always said the easiest part of this business is performing. The tough part is selling the job, followed by loading, unloading and driving to and from the jobs.

Good Luck Tom,

Gary

------------------
Travlin' Easy

I wonder how effective direct mail would be on a nightclub or bar or restaurant.

Actually, it works pretty good. That's how I got my first niteclub job with a keyboard, however, as I pointed out, follow-ups are the key to success. In my case, it was a VFW that paid just $150 for four hours. The manager was a bit reluctant at first, so I offered to do a 1-hour job for free on a weeknight so both he and his partons could both hear and see me perform. I ended up working there for the next six years, playing every Friday night.

Also has several other respondants to the same mail-out within the next few weeks, but unfortunately, they wanted me for Friday nights as well and paid less money.

Cheers,

Gary

------------------
Travlin' Easy

Bottom line getting the gig is easy......

But if you aint got the "goods" you can forget repeat business for sure you only get the one shot baby!!

Give 150% when your performing in the end it WILL pay off for ya !

Russ.....great post & opinions I love the read buddy.....I look at it this way.....
I come to see you perform or take my lady too what ever....we have a great time , listening, dancing, getting in to the performance because you provided and entertaining show that kept my attention in what ever way you can....then that is a successful show, an entertaining act, for a few hours the performer has took me away from reality and made my time together enjoyable...we're all happy when we leave and hope to return to do it again...if a performer does that he has done his job & so be it, heck I'd probably give you a Gumba hug too on the way out baby!!! Its a broad spectrum this Business we're in, I myself 35+ yrs...I loved it when I started & will always love it.......& I can see by reading your posts that we are in agreement big time .... keep it going Capt Russ your very much appreciated to many for sure!!!

Stay well my friend!!

How many of you have an agent?

Do you think they are worth the %

What do you think about taking someone
and just training them yourself to be your agent?

I just don't like the biz end... (I know what a cliche)
and I think the % might be worth it and make me
musically more productive.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts!

TP123

TP-

I've worked with and without agents. I strongly prefer to work without them. I would starve if I depended on them to provide me work. Most agencies want no part of "The Senior Circuit" (Nursing Homes, Senior Ctrs., etc.) because the dollars just aren't high enough.

I've dealt with two basic kinds of Agents over the 11 years or so.

*The smaller 1-2 man shops which are almost always run by other musicians who (naturally) take the best jobs for themselves and pass on the leftovers to everybody else. In the two largest of these type agencies, the main guy is also a piano player who has a band of his own. This kind of agency has never provided me any business to speak of.

*The larger "Coporate Feel" talent agencies. I've had some luck with these, but not that much. IMO, the amount of hassle and jumping through hoops vs. the payouts isn't worth it. Typically, these larger agencies have their favorites and to crack that inner circle is pretty tough. Also, there are no large agencies in the Dayton area, so for me to work with one out of Columbus or Cincy sets me up to do a lot of work out of town, which I don't really need right now.

...I did have a conversation an agent last year from a large agency. They had heard me at a local country club and were really interested in what I did. As complimentary as he was, he was very frank with me in that he said his company would rarely use a OMB because it skews all the money. His thinking is that if he started sending guys like me out on a string of high profile jobs or parties, word of mouth would spread and then his other, larger more expensive acts would see their work drop. Which would hurt his bottom line.

I also generally feel that agencies tend to overcharge or gouge clients often, which IMO, hurts the overall music scene...at least in an area like mine.

I guess I've always considered myself my own agent. Being able to work as a solo up to a quartet gives me lots of flexibility with my clients...So, I'd prefer to handle it myself as the main way of getting all my jobs...

Bill in Dayton

DITTO!

Gary

------------------
Travlin' Easy

Like Ringo sez...
"It don't come easy!"

Anyone who does use an agent with a
diff. POV?

Thanks very much,

TP123

I don't use an agent...but I have one that uses me. It is a one-woman, licensed shop. She has me pigeon holed into a certain type of job and I have not been able to convince her that I am versatile enough for many other types of bookings.

On the pro-side: She asks me what I want for any job offered and has never balked at paying me the full amount I have asked for. She bills her client for her commission and I am paid in full by the client at the end of the job. It has never been a problem.

In return for her recommendation, I agree not to play that room, or for that client again for a period of one year, unless the booking goes through her. Again, not a problem. If the client asks about my availability for any future job, I hand them her business card.

Her fee on every job I have played for her is 20 percent, which the client pays in advance.

Eddie

[This message has been edited by btweengigs (edited 01-09-2007).]

I just want to say THANK YOU to one
and all for one of the most informative
threads on here in awhile.
TP123

One last thing...

Does anyone else here still play the bars as a OMB?

Well, sort of. I don't play smoky bars any more. The "bar" I play almost exclusively is in a high-end supper club, where there is a bar, but also tables where the patrons can eat.
Now Louisiana has a no-smoking law in restaurants. When they extend it to bars, I may play some again.
I know Semilive plays bars as OMB. He'll probably chime in.
DonM

Yep! Still play in an Italian restaurant once in a while as an OMB. They took out the bar because the smokers drove the patrons out of the restaurant area. Now the place is non-smoking, the restaurant put tables in the place where the bar used to be, and the owner is no longer counting his losses--he just weighs his money from the restaurant biz cuz he can't count that high. On nights where there is music, every Thursday, he moves the tables to the side and creates a small dance-floor. Most of the time when the floor is packed with dancers.

Cheers,

Gary

------------------
Travlin' Easy

Yes, I do OMB in bars. Real bars. Jukebox, pool table, a real bar. Resident badass, resident bar queen. Thick smoke. Which I hate. Louisiana passed a no smoking law? Really?

------------------
Bill
SmallGig.com

Bill,

The law only applies to restaurants--not bars. But, it's coming to a bar near you--eventually!

Gary

------------------
Travlin' Easy

Since the topic is "getting the gig", I feel compelled to rant just a bit.

Here in South Florida I am used to the seasonal nature of the work. This year, the calls came in a little later than usual. A lot of the "snowbirds" delayed their trek south making less demand at some of the higher end places I usually play earlier in the season. Even attendance at the animal and military clubs has seen a bit of a drop off and they are getting very price conscious.

Okay...we've had storms. Insurance has gone through the roof. Property values and taxes have taken a major jump, causing some to leave, but there is major building of homes in the $400K-500K bracket going up everywhere. Most are being bought by new transpants from up north.

I have had a couple of calls lately requesting information about my "DJ services". My gripe is that there appears to be less and less respect for the ability of talent that plays instruments live...even arrangers...or guitars all hooked up to midi.

There has also been a younger element of resident that has come to the market and, understandably, they are going to want the music of "their era". I can live with that.

I am not Bon Jovi, nor can I sing like Lionel Ritchie, Celine Dion, Earth,Wind & Fire..etc. But to survive and "get the gig" I will accept those kind of jobs and rely on MP3s. Nobody seems to care because that age group is so used to it. But, I draw the line at Karaoke.

In order to get the gigs now, if the subject of DJ comes up, I tell them I offer both live performance (single or duo with a girl singer) and DJ services. It's not the way I would like it to be. But it is survival and so far I have picked up several jobs that I would have turned down a year ago.

And...Donny (DNJ) before you say anything, I know you have already climbed this mountain and it is second nature to you. But, it is all new to me. Maybe I will come to like it.

The day may come that all I have to take to a gig is an Ipod and my Bose.

Eddie

Eddie your doing good.....seasonal shouldn't be a deterrent.....tourists are one thing but there is always the locals who still have to have parties of all kinds eg: weddings, 50ths, birthdays, etc etc which have to have musical entertainment of some sort...plenty to go around...its just how much you want to aggressively seek & obtain it. Ive taught Gary a few tricks which is working beyond his dreams out there & there is no reason if you have the "GOODS" that "Getting the Gig" anywhere where people reside is not possible for the Professional OMB/DJ entertainer....& how you do it either Live, DJ, SMF, MP3 or a Mix of all are just tools of the trade in today's world....
Mix it up in Any combination & you'll be surprised at what turns up....Good Luck !!