Yambox....the 2k is a fantastic Kb...just keep digin into it deeper and deeper, it will treat you well for sure!,

Hmmmm, fantastic? Maybe great SOUNDING, but it's hardly fantastic. Maybe if it had piano sized KEYS it could be considered worthy of that accolade. It seems that the most basic requirement for a KEYboard is good keys, right?

(I know, I know ...... we don't all agree here, but I'm sad about how poorly my birds played yesterday. I have to vent ! grrrr)

Hi,
I tend to think manuals are the biggest problem.
If they included a Workshop ( for want of a better word) in the form of a video or DVD it might help.
Years back the local store used to pay me to do one on one sessions with new ( mainly )korg workstation/arranger owners, ie to go through the workings of the board..
It worked out better for the store , to have me spend an hour with a customer( that hadn't used this type of equipment before) than for the keyboard salesman to get tied up with trying to answer questions over the phone.

In most cases that one hour or so, was enough to get them up and running. I also spent time in going thru the manual with them, and marking the spots that were of importance to them ie recording on the sequencer etc etc, so that if they couldn't remember how to do it exactly, they'd just look it up in the manual to refresh their memory.
I'd give them my ph. no. if they got totally stuck, or if they wanted to spend extra time going into more depth, they'd pay me themselves.
Most knew what it was they wanted to do with their boards, just didn't have the time to spend, reading the first 50 pages of a manual just to learn how to switch the darn things on.

best wishes
Rikki

Dave,

Stick with Adkins, your fingers will soon be long and skinny, then you won't have a problem with the keys.

Gary

Nope. I want full size. Real size. The RIGHT size. These are keyboards - they were built on the piano premise. They imitate .... aw what's the use? No one else cares anyway.

I measured the Yamaha yesterday. The span between the C and the E key one octave higher is close to 1/4" shorter than the PA60 and the Technics KN7000 at the local store.

Also, which doesn't make a difference in actual playing ability to me, is that the Korg PA60 has 1/4" shorter black keys. that measuring from the tip of the black key to the back of the key. I didn't check the white keys for length.

You can tell just by glancing back and forth from the PA to the other boards. I wonder who engineers this stuff.

"Hmmmm, fantastic? Maybe great SOUNDING, but it's hardly fantastic."

I agree with DNJ--the 2000/2100 is a FANTASTIC keyboard. It has more features than anyone can imagine, many of which never are discovered by their owners. If this keyboard would have come on the market 10 years ago, it would have sold for five times as much money.

Keyboards are a lot like cameras. What comes out of them is solely up to the person operating them. That 2000/2100 is sure making a large number of folks a good deal of money. I know at least 50 people that have them and with the exception of a few, most are fascinated about every feature this keyboard has to offer--including me!

I've seen UD perform, and while he gripes continously about the key size, it's amazing just how good he makes his keyboards sound. Would bigger keys make him a better player? I doubt it--but he have one less complaint about Yamaha keyboards.

Without the technology that Yamaha has provided in this facet of the music industry, most of us would be struggling to make enough money to pay for the equipment. I for one will never go back to strumming a 12-sting guitar, triggering a drum machine with a foot switch and playing in smoke-filled bars. Yamaha revolutionized this industry, and IMO, they are clearly the leader when it comes to introducing lightweight, compact, rugged, versitile, great sounding keyboards.

Cheers,

Gary

[This message has been edited by travlin'easy (edited 01-20-2004).]

Where is it written universally that "electronic" or any other "keyboards" must have a key size based on a piano premise?? Maybe piano players cannot adapt?? I've played pipe and electric organs for years and the keyboards key spacing can vary greatly. Many organ builders have agreed on an AGO standard, but not all of them! Piano playing technique is entirely different than any pipe organ, and even though many electronic keyboards have touch response it's still not the same. Reading thru many past forums I also see many piano players having to replace the key assembly because their key pounding can wear them out prematurely. I imagine organ players don't wear them out as soon due to a different key technique. We are victims of our own experiences and varied techniques. As another comparison I have played trumpet and cornet for 20+ years. The valve spacing can vary from brand to brand on them too..................
I've always admired musicians that can play many different instruments. Talk about adapting....................... !!!

Rattley: VERY well Stated.
I'd like to add my comments to this same subject, but more specifically in regards to acoustic piano playing.

No matter how you slice (or more fittingly, pound) it, absolutely no 'arranger' keyboard's keys ever produced (Yamaha, Korg, Technics, Roland, Ketron, GEM, etc) even comes close to feeling like or responding to the way a fully weighted action with full sized keys on a acoustic piano's does. . . . period !

Even so called weighted action digital pianos don't feel like real pianos. "Touch Sensitivity" and "Weighted Action" is not the same thing as the sophisticated inner mechanism, or "action", of an acoustic piano. Digital pianos merely simulate the touch of pianos. They don't provide the same feedback or responsiveness to your playing, so your performance range is limited.

I realized long ago that arranger keyboards are primarily targeted to the home hobbyist and not the traditional keyboard pro musician. The unique advantage of the arranger keyboard for the professional solo performing keyboard musician though is that it offers a complete keyboard with a complete backup band in a self contained lightweight 'portable' (under 30 lb) package. I've noticed that most arranger keyboard players don't come from a traditional piano playing background, but more often from an accordion or organ playing background. Both the accordion & organ are instruments particularly suited to solo performance because they allow you to emulate many different types of sounds (instruments), via registers. The arranger keyboard being just the next giant step in this evolvement.

As far as the arranger key size issue goes, one possible reason Yamaha chose the slightly narrower keys may be to help keep the overall length (size) of the keyboard down, which also affords convenient (within easy arms reach) access to all its arranger function buttons. Some of you may laugh off the Yamaha keyboards as just toys , but it's 100% professional to me because I'm able to make a living with it.

When playing an acoustic piano (especially a Grand), it's a whole "different" playing experience than with auto-accompaniment arranger keyboard playing so both require a very different playing technique & playing approach. Once one accepts the fact that an arranger is no more similar to a piano than an accordion is to the organ, it will become a lot easier to adapt to each and enjoy playing them for the unique abilities each has to offer, and this includes the Yamaha arrangers, of course.

Scott

Yesterday did I really see just one intro and one ending on a Yamaha 2000, or was it a 2100? am I dreaming this? I'm sure I only saw one button for each. Just curios.