G70

I’ve had the G70 for about 4 weeks, 2 plus of those weeks the board was in the shop for repair due to a damaged in shipping LCD screen. The screen has been replaced and I've it back 5 days. I’m posting some general first impressions/pros and cons of the G70. Much of this has been talked about on other forums so some of this info may be rehashed. I’ve got a long way to go in really learning the ins and outs of this board, there’s so much that I haven’t got into yet, including the vocal harmonizer. Just commenting on some of the more obvious features and ones that I use the most as a part time musician.

I originally planned on selling my Tyros 2 at this point I’m not ready to sell the Tyros2 because fact is both keyboards are outstanding instruments in their own right. I’m not ready to give up either one. At some time in the future I may sell one or the other. I need more time to learn the G70 to be objective.

Pros of the instrument
76 solid keys check out the underside of the Tyros2 (hollow keys)
Having had most training on piano playing 76 keys is very comfortable to play . Bottom line it feels good and easier to play expressively
Build quality is great, like a tank. Makes you wonder why Yamaha doesn't build that quality into their arrangers when you consider the selling price of the Tyros2 and the G70
Having a dedicated knob that controls the balance between right and left keyboard parts. It’s very easy to adjust on the fly
Touch screen is great
Having drawbars and VK organs are terrific G70 are better than Tyros2
Nice live sound the Bossa Novas are great and are my favorites ( they are my favorites on the T2 as well )
One convenient dedicated 1 touch setting to convert from arranger to full piano mode.
User progam mode to create registrations easy to use especially with the touch screen and I prefer using it versus what’s on Yamaha boards

Cons

OS (just my opinion here) I compare it going from Windows 95 back to Windows 3.1, it has something to be desired. I find it a bit archaic to use or maybe I just haven’t had enough cockpit time with it.
I thought I was thru with floppy disks, but with my experience to date I will probably create “Gig Disks” using actually floppies vs. using a USB stick as I do with the Tyros2.
Much better folder system on Yamaha arrangers. I like being able to pop the USB stick into my laptop and be able to rename and move named styles around to different folders.
Music Assistant needs improvement to match the Music Finder on Yammies.

Steve congrats!!

Your on your way ....good luck with the G70 & open your mind to change!

Steve,
If you use a PCMCIA adapter (about $11.00) and a compact flash card, say 512MB (about $14.00) you can use this just like a usb thumb drive on the tyros2. You can play styles and songs directly from the compact flash card and you have pre named folders (8)to put all your midi files and external styles into. You can also have all you program list saved and recalled from the CF card.

------------------
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California
818-881-5566
www.kayesmusicscene.com

Sorry, George, but the pre-named card folders are exactly the same as the internal data structure... That is to say, one folder for ALL SMFs, one folder for ALL styles. There is NO subdirectory capability in the G70's OS.

However, I think Stephen hasn't yet come to grasp the 'Roland Way' of organization, that is, the UPS, a group of 144 UPGs - registrations - organized any way you want (and rapidly loadable).

It is certainly different to Yamaha's system, for better or worse, who knows? But with the addition of the Session Manager software available at roland-arranger.com, easily organizable.

George thanks for the input. That's where my thought of using floppies comes in. They certainly would be inconvenient to use, but in a sense with a little imagination each disk could be considered a folder. Ok, I may be stretching it a bit.

Diki, you've hit the nail on the head, I guess I'm a bit in denial and want the OS to be like Yammies I know that's just the way it is with the G70 I understand the concept and have been playing around with creating UPGs and placing them in UPS. Not really a bad system especially with the touch screen. Next step is to get some cockpit time with Session Manager.



[This message has been edited by Stephenm52 (edited 07-25-2007).]

Diki, George is closer to the truth than you!!!!

True they all reside in a single 'Folder"...but the G70 allows 8 indexes[so it is similar to sub directories]..

Stephen this can work the way you want to use it...

Steve what do you excactly want to do regarding song navagation while performing & using the OS on the G70?

The thing about the 'indexes', Fran, is they are part of the Database functions. They have nothing to do with actual folders in any computer sense of the word, so you can't drag and drop like Yamaha do, or see them in any organizational sense on a computer... just the G70's display.

George (from what he said) seemed to be referring to the fact that the card, when formatted, has a bunch of folders on it. But they have no subdirectories WITHIN those folders. So ALL SMFs go into the 'Put New Songs Here', are processed by the Database, and get moved by the G70 into the Songs folder (ditto Styles). But there is no way, using a computer, to move them around, organize them or categorize them (Yamaha style).

This all has to be done by the Database, which is (IMO) a fairly unreliable POS that is WAY too easy to corrupt. And once corrupted, ALL your organizational work goes down the toilet. So, for me, the best, most reliable way to organize Songs and Styles is to use the UPG/UPS structure, which is much more robust.

But, for sure, there is more than one way to skin a cat... It is just that Roland's ways are VERY different from Yamaha's!

Here is a partial solution I have found to the file "corruption" problem in the G-70:
let's say that, after organizing your database you add files to a folder (like "Put new styles here") using your computer via USB, then you disconnect the G-70 and, to your frustration, discover that it does not recognize the styles you have just added... then all you have to do is connect the computer again, go to the "DB" (database) folder and erase all the files relating to the styles (they have the suffix "sty", so are easy to recognize).
When you are done, disconnect the G-70 again, press the Styles Music Finder button, choose the memory (internal or external) and watch the G-70 do the organizing job again... this time all of your styles should be there!
I agree that from the point of view of a Yamaha user all this is frustrating (why can't the G-70 ackowledge all the folder/files the way a Tyros 2 or even a cheap computer does?) , but once you've learned to communicate with it using its own language, things start to make sense.

BTW,
Steve, I am really glad that you have sorted out things and are enjoying your G-70; I am 100% sure that, if you sell it (or sell the Tyros 2 for that matter), you will have seller's remorse afterwards...

I have four SRX cards in my Fantom XR and have installed the 07 (Ultimate Keys) into the G-70 and have started experimenting with substituting sounds (like a bass) in the styles: the results are amazing!
I agree with what others have said that the G-70 should have sounded great out of the box since the very beginning, but it's true that it has a great potential, even if it requires a lot of work from the end user.
Have you tried the converted VA-76 styles already? Whoever did the conversion, did an excellent job indeed: they sound great!

I know this can't be done quite the same way on the G70 as on Yamaha boards. Here's what I've done with tyros and psr3000 I created a series of folders that contain named styles for the song the style is used for. Folders are lettered A to C, D to G, H to M and so on thru the alphabet. In each of the folders A to C for instance are styles that are named with letters starting with A, B or C. These folders give me a master list of all tunes that I play. In the folders I collectively have somewhere around 600 named styles for songs. Here's where that system comes in handy. Let's say I'm playing a wedding cocktail hour, the bride requests certain tunes to be played during that hour. I then create a folder for the gig at my laptop called " Whatever bride's name is cocktail hour." I then simply copy and paste all the styles while at my laptop into the folder for this particular cocktail. Maybe a bit overkill from an orgainzational standpoint. But I find the system easy and the folder can be created and styles copied and pasted in minutes.



[This message has been edited by Stephenm52 (edited 07-26-2007).]

Stephen it is just as fast...maybe faster to use the finder feature on the G70...If you want songs starting with "D" just enter "D"...And the index is easier than that...I believe you can do your indexes on a PC too[The DisCover5 could]...but it is fast to index on the G70...

I believe the G70 database system is stable[human error is always the culprit]..

Why mourn the Yammi folder? Can you search in it? Do you have indices? Do you have a finder? Do you have 3 search arguments? I don't understand this debate.
Peter

Fran : I've got to revisit the index feature as I haven't really spent any time using it.

Rolman on your question "Why mourn the Yammi folder?" In the states we have an expression. " You can't teach an old dog new tricks." Well, this old dog is a slow learner.

Dreamer, thanks for your suggestions and I know you understand where I coming from since you also have both the G70 and Tyros2. I'll also try the Va76 conversions. I do have a copy of those.

Steve ...judging by your posts I really think you need to spend some serious time with the G70......ask some good questions, read the manual, & make a commitment to setting up the G70 for your purposes....also play some practice cocktail hours IN YOUR HOUSE in real time forcing you to use the search etc of the OS in real time
oh yeah & put that Yammy in the closet to remove the crutch.

Hi Steve - If you don't mind having a HUGE index, just put all you stuff on a good size memory card and let the database arrange it for you. The only trouble I've had so far with the SMFs is that the database arranges by the files internal name, not the filename. So, I had to go into them all and change the 'untitled' songs to their filenames - a little time consuming but worth it. Now everything is right there in front of me at the spin of the dial. Just wish we could get 20+ titles per pages

Once you have everything loaded into the database, can't you make set lists that will do what you want?

Cass you can search by song name or file name..They both are displayed..

Cassp fran is correct ....plus its easy on the G70 to make Title changes to your smf songs and resave them.

You are both CORRECT, as always. I knew I would hear from one or both of you for that post. But as G and E owners know, the database loves to print those internal file names in heavier dark print. It's so much easier to just name all your files in both places so that the darker, bolder titles are easier to read - or have different names to arrange them differently - gee, that's an idea !!!

see I am learning something

[This message has been edited by cassp (edited 07-26-2007).]

Fran, you are correct in saying operator error is usually the culprit in DB problems. But, especially with a newbie (that still hasn't quite grasped all the concepts), operator error is a high possibility... And, IMO, the DB needs to be re-written to make it more robust, more immune from operator error.

There are many things the OS does that make poor sense... One of my favorite peeves is that Linked SMFs do NOT call the linked SMF into the Finder when calling up the UPG. Unless you are VERY aware of this (the manual sure doesn't warn you!) you can start doing DB functions to it, and in fact you are working on the last file that WAS in the Finder...

Another disadvantage to this is that you call up an SMF Linked to a UPG on the gig, and do a little Makeup Tool work to it (the best place to accurately dial in your SMFs, IMO), come the time to save your edits (remember, you are on the gig, so this needs to be quick and easy!) and there is NO filename in the Finder. You can't simply press 'save' and 'overwrite' and be done, you have to KNOW the exact name of the file, type it laboriously in (VERY slow here) and THEN do the save/overwrite.

This takes FAR too long to be practical. It is a shame, because tweaking on the gig is otherwise SO easy with the Makeup Tools, you really want to do it all the time. But the lack of integration between Linked SMFs and the Finder make this more difficult than it should be...

There is a litany of weird problems associated with the DB at roland-arranger.com and it's predecessor site, obviously, it seems operator error is a fairly common thing! The manual has little in the way of cautionary warnings about what NOT to do, and once corrupted, the DB is very difficult to recover. All of this leads me to not trust it, despite being fairly well up on the G70 (!)

The combination of Richard's Session Manager software, and using multiple UPSs to organize UPGs just is, IMO, a more bulletproof system. Stephen could simply make up a UPS that contains the registrations for his wedding playlist, and load that as a virtual 'gig disk' and avoid the floppies altogether (and the DB!).

Perhaps, once he is more up to speed on the G70, he can try using the indexes, but I'm not sure I would recommend it to a relative newcomer, especially one coming from Yamaha, and not a prior Roland...

Cass, I don't mind a huge index. Whatever it takes to get a setup I'm comfortable with. I'll give anything a try. I got 1 gig card already installed in the board.

Donny, You got it man, I do need to spend the time learning this board. As for the T2 in a closet, that's not gonna happen


Diki, I appreciate your comments on learning this board, they are always helpful. I know you have the experience with it. It's a monster, that needs some taming. I'm sure I'll get it down, just a little frustrating right now.