I got a message from Scott Yee regarding my newly acquired Bose system. His principal area of interest was how the grand piano sounded. His concern centered around some phase problems he’d encountered with some of his other systems. He asked me to try several things and thought others on the zone may have the same question..

He was interested in how I had my system set at the moment. I told him I was feeding the right and left output from my Tyros into channels 1 and 2 on the Bose. He asked me to disconnect one channel and then the other to see if I heard a difference. I did this and could not hear any noticeable differences.

Here’s what I did and what I found.

First I took the touch sensitivity off so the sound would be at the same level. Then I set the channel equalizer to a flat response. The system amplifier has many different presets depending on the instrument being played. In this case I set the preset at 42 which is the setting for the Hohner Clavinet D6.

I then set the Tryos Master Volume to Max and set the Bose to 2 on a scale of +1 to +12. Each channel was disconnected at the amplifier and I listened to hear how the piano sounded at each octave.

I’m not a piano tuner but the output from the Tyros through the Bose system seemed to my ear to faithfully reproduce the percussive sounds of the piano, from the initial striking of the hammer on the strings to the tailing off of sound after the initial key strike.

After trying several pianos I tried the principal instrument in each sound group, brass, woodwinds, etc. In my humble opinion all the instruments sounded good through the system.

As I’m still learning about this new approach to amplified sound I’m sure there are many things yet to be discovered. In any case I feel it is IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER, what may sound good to me, might sound bad to someone else.

Have a great day!

rp

Richard, many thanks for performing the comparison test for me. As was discussed on this forum previously:
http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/Forum37/HTML/005061.html
http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/Forum37/HTML/005808.html

when going out a Yamaha PSR/Tyros keyboard via its single (mixed: L/R) output to a single PA speaker input, keyboard voices which utilize stereo effects (ei: 'Grand Piano' voice) sound severely compromised because of 'phase cancelation' The resulting sound sound is thin, brittle, and harsh. On the other hand, going out the PSR/Tyros keyboard 'R' output only, to a single PA speaker input sounds better, even though it's missing the L channel portion of the sound.

Richard: I found it surprising to discover that you hear 'no difference' thru the Bose PAS between the different audio output cabling configurations as outlined below:

1) Tyros L/R (mixed) 'single output only' to one Bose PAS input
2) Tyros R (right) 'single output only' to one Bose PAS input
3) Tyros L/R & R outputs (discrete stereo) to two Bose PAS inputs

Richard, when performing the mixed 'single L/R Tyros output only' portion of the test, did you remember to completely 'disconnect' the cable from the Tyros 'R' output jack? This is important, as the 'L/R' output on the Tyros only functions as a 'mixed (left and right) signal output when no cable is plugged into the 'R' channel.

Uncle Dave, in hopes you haven't shipped your Tyros out to its new owner (DonM congratulations ) yet, I'm hoping you could perform this test and provide your feedback as well, especially in light of the fact that Tony Mads performed a similar test on his KN6000 and found that he was able to avoid the phase cancellation problem when going out his kb in true stereo (two separate output cables) into a single mono PA speaker, but which accepts two inputs. Unfortunately my EVSxA100's support only a single input so I wasns't able to test this configuration with my Yamaha Tyros or PSR2000. I'm trying to determine if the mixed L/R output problem is unique to Yamaha & their stereo efx produced sounds or not.


Scott

Hi Scott,

I did disconnect the cables completely for the test. Actually I tried every combination I could think of. It will be interesting to see what Uncle Dave comes up with. Maybe I missed something along the way.

rp

Perhaps the reason Richard found no difference betwixt the different configurations is that the Bose PAS is a revolutionary product that doesn't neccessarily comply or conform to the limitations of previous or current technology, eg., Motion Sound, etc., etc. So it indeed may be possible to use just one Bose PAS setup and still achieve excellent results. The benefits of Stereo is of course the different effects that can be acheived that cannot be acheived with a Mono setup, eg., Pan, added ambience, and a true stereo effect.

Best regards,
Mike

Sorry Scott, the Ty is on it's way to Cajun country !
I refuse to believe that you can't make a good sound, sound BETTER in this Bose PA. Stereo or not ...... it just does a great job. I've used it both ways now and the difference is marginal, at best. It affects ME much more than it does the crowd.

If Yamaha pianos sound that bad in mono, then they are sampled badly. Every mix I do in my studio is A/B compared with Stereo and Mono. With the proper EQ and levels ..... a stereo sample should sound just fine in mono. So far, even at close range, there is no cancellation from the Twin Bose system. It spreads the sound all over and it sounds awesome in every nook and cranny.

This is a powerful and very true statement Dave has made here, read it over & over and take time to ponder it....we are too hard on ourself regarding sound.....which can hurt more then help the situation.

Mike, the Motion Sound keyboard amps do NOT suffer from any 'phase cancellation' problems at all, as both left & right channels are kept discretely separate from source to output.

Uncle Dave, with all the high praises you're giving the Bose PAS, what are you trying to do, send me to the poor house?!

The fact that you're given the option to either: send the single mixed 'L/R' signal out from the Tyros keyboard to the PAS, or the L & R signals out 'separately' to two separate inputs on the Bose PAS sounds like one of its feature which may be possibly helping to reduce 'phase cancellation', and which is more apparent when going from my Tyros to a single EV SxA100 PA speaker, as the EV only has 'one' input.

I'm really anxious to checkout the PAS myself now , though my music budget won't allow me to actually purchase one this year.

I hope someone coming to the Synthzone gathering in May might bring a Bose PAS.


Scott

scot as an amateur player i do this mostly for relaxation and perhaps narsistic pleasure (well I guess most performers are loving their own sound). But I gathered what mostly was unwanted/outdated/dusty equipment for a $400 discount. I'll bet you have a bunch more stuff than that to trade...poor house? tax deduction?...but such RICH sound. Bill

Scott..sounds like its time to do some cleaning house & horse trading at GC.....for a PAS....ASAP.......comon Ya know ya want one too, Go For It!!!

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 02-20-2004).]

Yah Scott hurry up and buy one & let me know how you like it.

Donny you buy one to & let me know how they compare
to the Sona 32C.

Gary Diamond too please, all this talk & praise from UD is driving me nut's.
It makes me think I need the Bose system also.

If there was a GC close to me I would be there already picking up a pair of um.
Heeeeeeelp .
Denny

PS: If the Bose sound allot better then my Yamaha MS400's I would trade them in.
What to do ? What to do ? What to do ?

dlstarry......for me to get a PAS dual tower/subs for my shows, this unit would have to punch into a 400 person audience like no tommorow .....I've seen Daves & it looks very kool, & I love the concept, but, I haven't heard it yet, but I will get to an Uncle Dave show asap but ven so.. I'm affraid that will probably be a smaller venue....I would need to hear it used on stage in a big room. Theres no rush...I'll ge to it I'm sure. I know it can easily handle mall venue or using only one towr/sub.

Take care

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www.donnypesce.com

Donny, Please let me know what think when you hear UD's.
And also if you think it will handle a 400 plus job.
Also if you think it's that much better than the Sona 32C's.
Thanx
Denny

I'm willing to bet that with the "Twins" set up with one woofet each - I can filla room of 500-600 easily. Add more woofers for even more umph. I have a stereo subwoofer that can be fed from the line outs of the Towers to provide additional bass if the need arises, but I doubt that it will.

You have to remember the way this system progects ..... it's so full and even - the covereage is much better than a conventional cabinet that sounds too loud at close distance from it.

This is what I & others have to experience ....this new concept vs the old is what causes doubts.....this Wed nite I'm gonna come see My Uncle and the PAS..

I certainly wish someone would find something bad about these things, so I won't want them.
DonM

Ditto

AMEN

Hey Donny,

Does Uncle Dave let ya come up on stage and do a song or two? Maybe a duet or something? (that would be hot!!)

Regardless, sounds like fun, wish I could join ya.

Eagerly awaiting your report.......

mike

This Bose system sucks. It's too light. It packs up too easily, and hardly takes up ANY space in the Van. Now I hafta buy a smaller car. Damn!
The people in the clubs all like it so much, I have to play longer sets, and because it's such a smooth sound, there are always people sitting RIGHT IN FRONT of me! They're laughing and carrying on like we're having a pary.....while I'm trying to WORKKK!!!!!
All this studio quality sound is getting old. I never hear any good old fashioned feedback anymore. There's no rumbling in the corners of the room. The people in the next room can hear everything I'm saying ... it's like having Big Brother listening in.
Everyone wants to compliment you while you're singing .... it's so distracting!
Then there's the idiot comments like:

"You get HBO on that thing??" or...

"Where's the backboard? I wanna play some hoops !"

I tell ya ..... you don't want one.
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nope
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you want TWO !

[This message has been edited by Uncle Dave (edited 02-20-2004).]

Thanks UD for this down fall,
"This Bose system sucks. It's too light. It packs up too easily, and hardly takes up ANY space in the Van. Now I hafta buy a smaller car. Damn!"

I guess I better not buy one, because I just bought a new minivan &
I sure don't want to have to trade it for a smaller car.

Thanx you just saved me 4000 bucks.
Denny

[This message has been edited by dlstarry (edited 02-20-2004).]

Mike.....

The answer to your question is Yes.
I have performed with my very good friend Uncle Dave many times both filling in as a soloist at some of his gigs & him at mine...& I've also Sang songs together on stage with Dave providing excellent background vocal harmony and KB accompiament. It's great to get together with musician friends for sure. I hope to do it with more people in the future.

take care

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www.donnypesce.com

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 02-20-2004).]

UD + DNJ = 2 tons o' fun !

"I Love You Man"


2 Tons of Talent I would say!!

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www.donnypesce.com

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 02-20-2004).]

Have fun guys!

mike

HAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHA...YIKES!!!!

OMG......Mike great job!!!!
I love the Threads!!!!!!!


another classic !!!


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www.donnypesce.com

I had posted a msg for advice...but am getting none so help me plz...UD had said to forget about sterio for connecting KBD (2100 + PA50) to a mixer (i wanted to know how I would connect my KBDS to the PAS...I need stereo as my sequencing involves a lot of pan for the instruments and effects...2100 has 2 outputs and Korg has 4)using L/R kills the multi-effect setup(series/Parallel) and also the Pan.
Is the architecure of the PAS so different that this (left-right balance) is automatically taken care of ? (users plz comment )

Regards
michael

And thanks to Gary (travlin'easy) for providing the body shot.



I tried to match the granularity of your shot with Dave's head shot...It wasn't pretty. I left it alone.

Hey, see if you can catch Wednesday night on video and I'll host it for ya, stream it, whatever you want.

mike

You may PREFER stereo, but you certainly don't NEED it. Many, many performers use mono systems on stage and it's just fine. In fact - 3 nights a week (weeknights) I intend to use the mono Bose system with only one woofer.
You can use the summed outputs of each kb or use a small sub-mixer to feed the Bose inputs. The latter will give you more control over levels.
The Bose controller has only TWO channels on it. The remaining 2 channels have flat EQ and just a volume control on the floor unit.

-To Uncle Dave-
Thanks UD, guess I'm too hard on the sterio topic coz I put a lot of effort in the sequencing....However what you say
"connect to a mixer and then give the mixer output to the 2 channels of the PAS" makes all the sense. In any case I have to connect the Digitech to a mixer (send / return to get harmonies for more than 1 mic).
I just wanted to know if the PAS is really that good. By the way... How about the Bose 402 extended ?... in comparision to the PAS (cost and performance )


Thanks again UD....
best regards
michael

Michael,
I have no interest in any other Bose system for live work. This new design is what drew me to it, so I can't comment on the system you mentioned, sorry.
As for the stereo deal .... you'll have to deside that for yourself. I still monitor in stereo, no matter what amps I use to make my shows louder because my mixer feeds the audio INPUTS to my kb and I hear the harmonizer, midi files and MP3 trax all through the stereo kb speakers. Wouldn't play any other way. I'm too spoiled now.
Good luck in your search !

I haven't had a chance to here the PAS system yet but here is a link to some comments http://srforum.prosoundweb.com/viewtopic.php?t=403