Hi,
I just change my KN6000 for the new PSR-2100. I freak on the operating system. We could do anithing we want in the same time while playing a style.
On the KN6000.... I was not able to look at the floppy to see the list of the style. When we press Load button all sound stpped on the KN6000.
The PSR let me select a midi while i'm playing a style !!
I could go anywhere in fuction system and all sound and style keep playing !!!

I really love my PSR-2100 !!!!

Good Choice!! Good Luck!
www.psrtutorial.com

Stick with the Yammies!

You're gonna' have lots of fun,

Gary

This is the first KB I've had that let's you look at a midi list while playing a style. That's a great (REALLY great) time saver. Conversly, you can brose through styles during song playback. I've even modifyed the Master EQ and written the changes during song playback. The PA80 was very good at multitasking as well, but couldn't accesss the styles during song mode. This IS a great feature.

Dave you sound excited!!!

I can't help but feel that DNJ, Dave and Fran are increasingly confused. A Yamaha - who would have thought!!!

"I can't help but feel that DNJ, Dave and Fran are increasingly confused. A Yamaha - who would have thought!!!"

Frank, some folks get smarter as they get older--even me!

Cheers,

Gary

seems to me that this forum is still trying to decide where it stands on yamahas

At this moment in time, I believe that YAMAHA rules the arranger world from the cheapest to the most expensive. They are an awesome company and know HOW to please a customer although I still believe they can still please a little more to get it perfect. Just a little more.....there is a chance for the CASIO's and the KETRON's to catchup.

Yep. Theres no doubt in that! I think they know how to make perfect KB for us but making these KB´s today to keep their prices low but not too low. And of course to sell new models again in few years.

I´ll stick with Yammie as long as they keep up making these wonderful KB´s.

I am NOT excited. I'm actually very disapointed with what's available today....but I am optimistic. I have no allegience to any brand, and I'd rather not have to switch so often, but hey - you gotta do what you gotta do to stay happy. (or at least, get CLOSE to happy)
I don't play these things for fun. I play music for fun. The tools are just a means to an end, so I keep searching for the best fit.
Feature-wise, it's true that the 2100 has a lot to offer, but I tell ya - these baby keys are killing my technique. It's a crime to think that I need to RElearn a skill that I've been getting better at for 40 years. It's a muscle thing. My hands "know" where the keys are SUPPOSED to be. The Yamaha keys are definatly the biggest compromise in the instrument. The second that I can find a full sized, solid key with the performance I need - I'm outta here Yamaha.
This is a definate steping stone to something more profesional. Sigh.

I hear ya and I'm with ya totally on this one Uncle Dave. Yamaha's do pack some excellent features in the 2000 series but that key feel.. ugh...

Yes' I'm like a broken record on this .. I say it over and over, but it is the single worst thing about these boards. This and the weak drums are what keeps me using the PA80 more than the PSRs.

Korg could take a page out of Yamaha's book here too though and add another fill ( I like separate fill buttons btw ) and actually make their "multipads" useful..

Every board out there is a compromise ...

AJ

Yeah.....sigh. No one has it right yet. ..... maybe Steinway, huh Scotty?

I don't play these things for fun. I play music for fun.

Hi Uncle Dave, I played and studied guitar for many, many years. When I went to keyboard I realized that is was music I loved not the instrument. Good insite Dave.

[This message has been edited by bruno123 (edited 09-30-2003).]

I feel like Dave.....I play and make music with the 2k combined with a Laptop for now beacuse it can do "Most" of what I need, but not all.....and the "not all" is different for everyones needs and skills, so what else is new? I think we all know you have to compromise to achieve some form of personal happiness with these KB's..I feel there will Never be a "Perfect" KB for everyone. Right now I'm making Music, and the Audience is Happy and thats all I need!

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 09-30-2003).]

Good points all around. Yes, the music itself is the most important thing and we all know that the vast majority of the audience doesn't know and / or couldn't care less if we are playing the Tyros, 2100, Genesys, Korg, etc.. and the digital recorders I use don't care either.

But..... I always want good quality carpentry tools when I do carpentry, whether it be for financial gain ( business ) or for home use... Well, it isn't any different here.. I find it a little hard to imagine that Yamaha has any real musicians ever actually touching the keys on their PSr lines when they are being designed.. and I would love to know the logic the korg designer is using when he / she must know that the competition ( yamaha in particular ) makes their multipads really useful or adds four fills to their styles..

I don;t expect their ever will be a perfect keyboard.. some will have functions that others don't and I can accept that.. and I realize that the 2000 / 2100 is mid range in the Yamaha ararnger line, but c'mon guys.. decent key feel is one of the most basic things a keyboard player needs to have. The cheapy wk series from casio, at about a third of the price, has much better key feel... and like Uncle Dave, I have spent the better part of 4 decades working on kb technique, and it almost feels like I'm learning a new instrument all over again when I play the 2k. It just doesn't feel right.. But.. feature wise for the dollar, there isn't anything I see out there to compare.. so compromise I will..for now..

AJ

Key feel, and the two step [push button] for transpose & octave on the fly, seperate Mic volume on Top [next to master vol], is what I need to be more happy!

I don't use the transpose that often, but it's nice to have the buttons on the Korg. I like having the octave buttons too, but unfortunately, on the PA80, it only seems to be able to control one panel sound at a time ( I use many combinations of two and three ), so it becomes utterly useless ( maybe there is a workaround in the global settings that I missed somehow ? ) . I love having the octave button on the Motif though.
Yeah.. I gotta reach around to the back of the KB ( both PSR2k and PA80 ) to control the mic input volume via a tiny tiny knob. I think if I remember right my 740 had a knob on the kb face. They went away from it.. What's up with that ??

AJ

AJ,
The Korg and the Yamaha both have mic volumes from the front panel. The knob on the rear is a gain switch and should not be used for small changes during a performance. Set it and forget it.
On the PA80, you can make incremental changes in the edit menu, otherwise you have to just hold the button down and wait to scroll through the value....too time consuming, and not presise.
The PSR is right on the front panel with a dedicated button - couldn't be easier.

What's 'right' is what feels best for 'you'. Funny thing is that now that I've adapted to feeling very comfortable playing the smaller feather light Yammy keys, my Steinway Grand's keys (weighing in at the other key weight/size extreme), has become the more difficult for me to play recently.

Even between the different makes and models of acoustic pianos, key feel, weight and size may vary significantly. Before the portable elec keyboards revolution, pro pianists were routinely faced with the challenge of performing on pianos of widely varying keyboard action & feel. This included pianos 'out of regulation' (some keys easier to press than others), or with missing strings. The advantage we have as portable electronic keyboard musicians is not only that elec kbs don't need to be tuned, but that its feel (action) remains "consistant" from the lowest to the highest note, which is often not the case with older (out of regulation) acoustic pianos.

Granted, it took a while for me to adapt my keyboard playing style to synth action boards, but I now feel pretty comfortable adapting back and forth between the Steinway's heavyily weighted & significantly larger keys to the feather light smaller Yamaha PSR keys. I've now developed the confidence to play (without too much trepidation), other keyboards out there whose key action, size/weight probably rests between these 2 extremes. Developing the ability to adapt has become the key here.

Scott

This is the danger of which I speak !
We're lossing chops, the longer we play on different size keys. It's probably easier to switch from accordian to piano than it is to adjust to a lousy 1/8 of an inch "missing" from each octave on a psr.

Size does matter...it rears it's ugly head at least once a night - I hate it. makes me sound like I'm playing in the cracks.
( even more than I sometimes do ! )

The 'key' to dealing with these size differences is adaptibility. Playing a non weighted synth action PSR type arranger with slightly smaller keys is just one (of many) differences between playing a piano & arranger kb. Even though they're both keyboard instruments, I approach playing them very differently, and utilize uniquely different keyboard playing techniques for each. For some reason, Yamaha's PSR slightly shorter octave reach along with its non weighted synth action seems well matched, and contrasts nicely to the longer octave reach yet much heavier than standard piano key weight of the Steinway Grand, making the effect of my jump playing back & forth between the two instruments to feel appropriate.

Scott

U D.. I know.. I see and use the button.. but I like dedicated knobs or sliders... I'm just a knobby slidering kinda guy I guess...lol. Granted it's a lot easier on the PSR than on the Korg .. but I still remember having an actual knob for dedicated mic volume control on a previous PSR ( I'm sure it was the 740.. )

As far as the key size difference... I certainly notice it but I seem to be able to adapt quickly as long as the keys have some life to them. I can adjust fairly quickly to anything from an acoustic grand to the old Yamaha CP25 I used to have ( I still play it sometimes.. a friend has it and it also has piano type action ) to one of my synths. When going from the PA80 to the Motif, the key size is noticeable and the difference in key feel is also noticeable, but I have little trouble adjusting. I do not adjust as well to the weak and flimsy feel of the PSR keys however, and I just cannot play with the same expression and accuracy on my 2k as I can on any of the other boards I've ever played. Just the way it is, but it does bother me.. After close to 40 years of playing many different types of keyboards, I just don't believe that it's my technique that's at fault here..

AJ

I HATE THE KEYS ON YAMAHA PSR 2000 !!

Now, will you Yammies designers hear this and put those nice and tight DGX300 keys on the PSR line even with extra $200. If you keep it at the same price, it will be selling through the roof.

..YEah ! What HE said !