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#183278 - 11/16/03 11:53 AM
Re: LIONSTRACS MEDIASTATION X-76...what you think?
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Hi Terry
I know that, this sound are not so good, why there are only the first extra samples extract from the Wavetable 128 Voice 24Mb sound Bank.
We have just copied the same binary file and add 5/6 new sound to testing the firmware ( that is working, the HARD work till now was converting the DSP windows editor and sound bank under Linux)
In the wavetable we have only 24Mb flash and is really HARD insert a lot od sound why no space! It mean that we must REDUCE at the max the samples.
In Mediastation we dont use Flash, but standard DIMM 256Mb/PC133 and we have tested this 24Mb sound bank.
Now we can add a lot of new HQ samples/Instruments and make how many binary sound bank files that we like, UP 256Mb size.
I'm in contact with some guys, just that help us to make a lot of HQ instruments. With the SAM9708 Evaluation board, everyone with a windos PC may develope a new Instruments and we ONLY add this instruments in our sound bank.
In future, all this new binary sound bank will posted in our server and the Mediastation automatically may dowload, just pressing the key: Update.
SAM9708, 128 Voice, is the last generation od Dream chip, SD1, X1....and a lot of other keyboards use only the 64 Voice processor, but the sound editor is the same for both DSP.
Just a little more time, but I'm sure that for the NAMM we can have a 150/180Mb GM/GS sound bank.
Anyway, all this sound may be used like General midi, DON'T forget that Mediastation have the LinuxSampler 180 voice( .GIG library) and 3 different Softsynth!!
All the system here is totally opend, not limit of Voice and SOUND Bank.
Again ( that maybe someone had forget) ALL the software/sound Bank MADE by Lionstracs is ALL FREE COST and may downloaded by own Internet sever.
regards
domenik
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#183284 - 11/18/03 03:13 AM
Re: LIONSTRACS MEDIASTATION X-76...what you think?
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Member
Registered: 08/01/02
Posts: 2683
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Benno, I can appreciate what you are saying about mp quality, however the other demos from the other boards I mentioned are also mp's. It is all we have to go on. The PA demos posted were even home studio demos, so I tend to trust those over factory demos that were done under the best conditions. I too appreciate all the openness of you guys, but for me at least it will take seeing one locally and playing with it. The problem I have with this "open source Linux community" is that it sounds like a group of Linux techies hacking away when they get a chance to create sounds and programs. With the major players however secretive they may be, it is their business to turn these things out as well as having the resources and personnel to do so. I know where Yamaha lives......I don't know where Joe part time Linux programmer does. Just thoughts, I of course will reserve my final judgements until I lay hands on one of these in Sacramento. For my advice too, I would not make the same mistake Genysis has IMO. May be a great board and Paul is very cool, but the fact that they cannot be found anywhere puts me off them. I'm not sure why companies do not bite the bullet and say to a local music store, ok, you don't want to buy a demo, fine we'll place a demo in your store free. One thing certainly seems to be very common here very few will buy a board site unseen, or if we get the feeling, yeah but when it breaks, then what do we do? Terry ------------------ jam on, Terry http://imjazzed.homestead.com/Index.html [This message has been edited by trtjazz (edited 11-18-2003).]
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#183285 - 11/18/03 08:05 AM
Re: LIONSTRACS MEDIASTATION X-76...what you think?
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Junior Member
Registered: 11/11/03
Posts: 9
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Originally posted by trtjazz: Benno,
"I too appreciate all the openness of you guys, but for me at least it will take seeing one locally and playing with it."
Absolutely understandable. We're negotiating with one of the big North and South American distributers. If the distributer likes our product, they purchase one unit for each of their best clients--best clients are generally the bigger ones, Guitar Center, Sam Ash. If the distributers "best" clients like the unit, they potentially purchase one unit for each store, Sam Ash has 45 stores. Sacromento is likely to have a store with a Mediastation.
Of course it remains to be seen whether we'll be able to work with a distributer. The conclusion after first negotiations generally leaves the manufacturer paying several hundred dollars for each unit purchased. So you get to pay for a unit and we get to pay for your unit too. 
"The problem I have with this "open source Linux community" is that it sounds like a group of Linux techies hacking away when they get a chance to create sounds and programs."
I don't think it's unfair to be concerned. Many open source projects start with a developer who has an itch they scratch. Of course Lionstracs is a registered business entity in Italy and soon to be in the U.S.
Lionstracs has two years and $500.000.00 invested into Mediastation reasearch and development. Getting a return on this investment requires a great deal of organized effort. Trust me, we're and will continue to conduct solid business. If we don't, we'll toss all that time and money into the garbage.
"With the major players however secretive they may be, it is their business to turn these things out as well as having the resources and personnel to do so."
"I know where Yamaha lives......I don't know where Joe part time Linux programmer does."
"Just thoughts, I of course will reserve my final judgements until I lay hands on one of these in Sacramento."
"For my advice too, I would not make the same mistake Genysis has IMO. May be a great board and Paul is very cool, but the fact that they cannot be found anywhere puts me off them. I'm not sure why companies do not bite the bullet and say to a local music store, ok, you don't want to buy a demo, fine we'll place a demo in your store free."
"One thing certainly seems to be very common here very few will buy a board site unseen, or if we get the feeling, yeah but when it breaks, then what do we do?"
Either the distributer handles warranty contracts or we'll work with established repair businesses. Of course shipping is very expensive. In Minneapolis a repair shop could be The Good Guys who have been getting my money for about 20 years. I don't know all the details yet but we'll figure out what's best for everyone and do it the right way.
I guess it would be ideal to find reputable repair businesses in the majar markets. If we're able to do it this way, we might ask you guys who does it best in your town. This remains to be determined.
Ron Parker
Lionstracs U.S. General Manager, Marketing
Terry
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#183287 - 11/18/03 10:12 AM
Re: LIONSTRACS MEDIASTATION X-76...what you think?
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Junior Member
Registered: 11/11/03
Posts: 9
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Originally posted by sbenno:
"A few things:
96kbit MP3s are not a synonym of audio quality.
So even with a perfect synthesis engine the result will be an undynamic piece of crap.
Those MP3s must be replaced with at least 160kbit versions."
We should produce samples that are the same format as what other folks are doing. My observations, with a scope, show around %70 data loss above 12kHz with mp3 compression. So, things need to be relative.
"Then of course there is the limited wavetable ROM size. Yes you can hear that the strings for example (high strings) are using too short samples thus still sound a bit artificial.
But as domenik said, 256MB is quite a lot of space and do not assume that this is the final soundbank :-) (Neither the styles are final, just a few quick demos).
If you ask me IMHO the examples contain too much reverb."
I observed several negative qualities in the demos but my overall impression was very encouraging.
I don't think the demos are arranged to reveal sound qualities. Obviously it's useful to hear music but we need demo arrangements that feature unprocessed and processed kick, snare, kick and snare, high hat, high hat and kick and snare, each tom, each cymbal. Then a simple beat with processing that leaves each drum instrument naked. I need to hear a recording studio style sound check for each instrument until I've got the whole band playing.
Is it good business to release demos that don't fully represent the potential of the X-76? In my opinion, it's genius. It is arragant and alienating when a manufacturer thinks they're capable of meeting requirements without the user's participation. Before product, Lionstracs believes in a philosiphy that we're married to for better or worse. The spirit of the open source license is "the new boss". To hell with protecting ourselves because that will produce the same old results. Benno, we have to sleep in the same bed--ah, let me rephrase that, you can't please me until we are equals.
Lionstracs must provide a great DREAM soundfont library but we can also provide tools for modifying the DREAM soundfont library. I think SWAMI, swami.sourceforge.net, might be the tool. Am I wrong? If Lionstracs can add DREAM format to libinstpatch, as Reduz has indicated, then users can modify their DREAM Soundfont libraries. Then we can use P2P distribution tool that does a diff; if source has something that local doesn't, then pull. Include authentication, blah, blah. Benno, I've already paid Taybin to work on a P2P session exchange tool for Ardour. Lionstracs can pay him to modify the tool for the Mediastation.
I don't think Lionstracs should host a Soundfont server because, as Reduz has suggested, people will sample DX7 bass sounds and distribute them. I suspect we can host metadata; parker is serving x, y and z.
We're building the X-76 to please others, not ourseleves. Mediastation users must be "the new boss" otherwise Lionstracs is "same as the old boss".
Benno, can you have all the software done by tonight, get the price below $200.00, have it delivered to my door by my future wife and get her to stay with me long enough to perform a warranty repair?
Ron
"I'm not sure if it was the right thing to post such low quality demos. Perhaps yes perhaps not. Of course people want to hear the iron in action otherwise they think that this is a vaporware project.
Bad demos can damage the reputation of a product but on the other hand these demos are just from a limited size soundbank to show that the iron is actually working and not a vaporware product.
I think anyone with a bit of a brain understands that you cannot assume this is the final sound quality of the Mediastation.
I hope people appreciates domenik's openess in showing you guys how the still unfinished product (that understandably still has some deficiencies) is progressing.
I think there are not that much companies that have such an open attitude. Openess is synonym of honesty because openess makes it hard to cheat.
Speaking for myself I think a successful product must be deliver raw performance (good sound quality, maintain the promises) and deficiencies cannot be offset by heavy marketing or brand name."
"Plus of course this was only one of the multiple audio engines the Mediastation has under the hood (besides the DSPs there is the sampler and the softsynths).
Audio demos not available yet."
"We will keep you guys posted."
cheers,
Benno
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