Most linux users are not programmers either. There is this common misconception here that linux is an OS for programmers, which
is not reality. You can install software, configure it and run it just like you do in Windows or Mac, and this is why they are using Red Hat. There is even great tools for updating your software from internet, so you
could get the audio software running on the mediastation updated to newer and more featured versions without purchasing more expensive models.



Well, look, first of all any product has a given lifetime. You dont see yamaha supporting the SYs, or roland supporting the junos. But since this seems to use all standard opensource components, many of which are mantained independently, your mediastantion will continue to be improved with time even if lionstracs goes out of business.



For your information, the opensource movement is based on communities of such mangitude that windows does not posess.



Open Source software does not perish, due to its openness. If the mediastation was based on microsoft products, it could never be as customizable.




Really? lets see how you manage to carry all that to a performance or a studio.




This makes no sense. Even if bugs allways exist (heck even my Roland XP has bugs and crashes from time to time) they are professional developers. This is about bringing a product to the end-user which will come well documented, with all the necesary manuals, etc. Linux is just the OS it's based on, it's customized and it's open (even Yamaha uses linux for their advanced workstations and)




I should.. I dont think they are the same kind of product. I think the nice thing of the mediastation is that you are getting good sound synthesis and sequencing plus all the apps you can install with no modification on it. So you can also have a sampler of the quality of giga or halion, or software synthesizers of the quality of reaktor, fm7 or DAWs at the level of protools all running together in the same machine.

Product sounds interesting, but I dont think it compares with the neKo....

You can get a base modle for less than $3000!

You can still run linux if you want!

Customizable control panels!

64 bit now available (for the same price as mediastation) !

Just to name few.

Dear Lukitoh....
for ONLY your know...Lionstracs in in this music world from 10 years...
I been the first one in europe ( 8 years ago) that had sell for half milion $ Digidesing Protools, 14 digital studios made my self withOUT mixer, only protools system. After that, Digidesing had developed all the mixig system. Media Records (www.mediarec.it) is our 50% partners, so...we know well what is music and digital studios.
After that, look in Google and search: MEGAFLOPPY, then you can see what I had developed, maybe a stupid stuff for now, but 8 years ago, I was the first worldwide and nobody had try to be copied, to much hard to do.. We been client of Roland Europe and they had produced the G-800 with Megafloppy...
Before we had developed the Megastation keyboards and expander....
I had developed some PCB boards from Alenia Aerospace....
We are the producer of the Solton SG-X ( www.solton.de), my master HW enginner develope HQ PCB board for Fast Web technology, satellit system and 64bit PCB boards...

So...if this is not enough for your know, let me know..

At this point, I'm happy to accept any critical about Mediastation, why nobody ( except we from lionstracs) had saw and listen the sounds...are A LOT....the last one with the .GIG library..
S
w
Well people...post all the question and critical how you want, but DONT tell us that we dont have Experience in that!

Anyway....NAMM is not far away...
Again..mediastation is not made for the low level users...for less money, buy a Roland, Korg, yamaha or windows PC and stay be happy for what you get. Then buy a 24Ch stereo mixer, effect, Gigasampler..synth.. and let me know how much you will spend..

Cheers frinds

dominek,
Most of us already own that extra equipment you say we'd have to buy, so in reality we would be duplicating it with Liontracs.

I love and buy new equipment but even for me $6000.00 is very hard to justify, for something that basically uses soft synths, with some hard surface controllers.
Terry

------------------
jam on,
Terry http://imjazzed.homestead.com/Index.html

I know what you mean, but sorry, this is the keyboard that a lot of single musician want. I play the keyboards too, from more 30 years, piano bar, clubs, disco..
For me, like a lot of people, we playing performance alone, or with a max more one singer. We need a compact equipment, less cable, rack, box....one complete keyboard that stay in all the cars, need only the power supply monitor.
I respect your idea too, dont worry! Till now I had play with my old Megastation and Roland G-800 too

Cheers

Yes, it does not compare, the former is a keyboard/music workstation with a well thought out integrated enviroment while the latter is a Windows PC in a Keyboard case.



But for that price you get basically a PC in an empty, keyboard case without internal display dedicated buttons (for arranger, soundselection, arranger, player/sequencer etc).
Without MIDI chips. Who is going to provide high quality General Midi playback ?
All in software ? What high quality GM/GS midi playback engine do you ship with the keyboard, How much does it cost, how good does it sound ?
(I'm talking about the $3000 version, because your post sounds like the $3000 Neko will be better than the $5000 Mediastation)
What does "Bundled Software and Sounds" mean ?
If it does not sound at last as good as the Roland JV1080 it will be worthless for the average musician.

Now assume I want at least basic audio/midi sequencing, professional style player, included styles, sounds, soft-sampler and softsynth.
These modules cost at least $400-$500 apiece.
Add that up and you quickly get past to the $5000-$6000 mark.



Installing what a standard linux distribution ? where is the traditional integrated enviroment ?
I can run my coffe machine on Linux too (as long as it has one of the CPU types supported by the kernel) but it does not mean that I turned my coffee machine in a musical keyboard.
Or will you rely on the special Mediastation's Linux sofware ? :-)




Ok please specify how much I need to pay for the control panels to get all the equivalent buttons the Mediastation has. (176 keys).
Where can I buy them, what kind of software can interperate with alle these buttons ?



64 bit used in 32 bit mode because Windows XP is not 64 bit capable and will be unable to work well in 64 bit for many many months: read the nightmare that await owners of AMD 64bit boxes on Windows XP: http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,112749,pg,6,00.asp

Not running a 64bit CPU in 64bit means driving your Ferrari without being able to switch past the 3rd gear.

On the other hand Linux is fully 64bit capable and can address as much memory as your mainboard supports (new Opteron mainboards support about 16GB of RAM)

The 64bit Mediastation is in the testing phase too, but with the nice difference that we get full RAM addressability, full CPU speed due to native 64bit mode.

Windows is simply the wrong OS to run on a Keyboard, regardless the availability of cool VST apps.




Just to prove you wrong on a few points :-)

Sorry for the ironic post but I think the Mediastation does not deserve all this bashing because no one has seen it in action yet and no one can prove that it does not work as advertised, Linux not up to the task, that the keyboard does not offer any value for the money becuase one could obtain the same stuff by assembling it by himself etc.

I think it makes sense to wait a little bit more for making further judgements.
When the keyboard will be available to touch it with your hands it will be easier for everyone to make their conclusions.

I hate hyping too, even if I work for a product/system I hate when untrue things get said or marketing is dominated by dishonesty.

Let's wait for the iron showing up at this NAMM :-)

cheers,
Benno




[This message has been edited by sbenno (edited 11-11-2003).]

Benno, don't let us discourage you from your mission. Sure we have questions and we sometimes have doubts about the Lionstracs but these questions and doubts can only help you in your quest to produce the 'ultimate' Workstation/Arranger Keyboard - by providing you with understanding of what we as Musicians want in a Keyboard. Even the negative comments can be used by you to improve upon the Lionstracs. But don't get discouraged by all the nay-sayers. If the Lionstracs is indeed an "All-in-One" Keyboard that does all that you say it will -(from reading what you said in your posts) - and is indeed a mind-boggling fantastic product that will blow us away by its functionality, features and quality of "sounds"; then I'm sure you will find a niche market for the Lionstracs Mediastation. But all of the features will be meaningless unless it has those fantastic "sounds". That is the number #1 selling point of ANY Keyboard. All of the other stuff takes a back seat to the quality of sound the Lionstracs produces. But to have quality sounds AND fantastic 'features' will be Bravissimo!!!

Don't let us deter you and don't get discouraged. Press On!! Your determination to build the next Monster Keyboard is highly admired if only for the fact that you have a vision and you are working hard to see that vision come to pass by skill, knowledge and fortitude. I am looking forward to seeing the NAMM video of the Lionstracs and also hearing it in action!

Best regards,
Mike

Best regards,
Mike

benno,
Are they going to be available at local stores? I live in Sacramento, Ca. do you know if there will be any to be tried out, or do we not know yet until after NAMM and see who buys and who doesn't?
thanks,
Terry

------------------
jam on,
Terry http://imjazzed.homestead.com/Index.html

I think that if the mediastation has all that it says it has then I think it is a keyboard that musicians want especially if it includes what an arranger and work station can do. For me being able to upgrade sounds and OS and have a lot of memory for composing and programming my own styles songs and sounds is necessary for me in a keyboard. However one should not have a PHD in rocket science to use it to the maximum. Also tech assistance should be available with eas. We will just have to wait for when they show the board to people to see if what they are saying is true. I really hope they are not just marketing and playing with numbers to make their product sound good. We will see what they present at Namn

responding to Mike: thanks for your nice words, do not worry about "Benno, don't let us discourage you from your mission. ....".
If I was not a thickskinned person I would not post to forums and mailinglists (where flames are on the order of day :-) ).
Anyway as you said feedback (both positive and negative) is very useful for improving a product, idea, system or an application.

Responding to trtjazz, I don't know about distribution since I'm a developer but I think after the NAMM it will be much easier to respond to your question. Anyway we will put up some video demos so you get an idea how it works.

Responding to "to the genesys": no PHD in rocketscience required. That would be quite suicidal from a marketing point of view.
Being open source, updateable via internet, providing big horsepower does not imply that this "luxury car" must be hard to drive.
Of course if you are a developer you can tweak any aspect of the system and if you want you can share (or even sell) your customizations or additional modules you write.
As for documentation, a basic manual will be there but since it is an ever evolving system paper risks aging quite fast. That's why we opted for online help (builtin in the keyboard, plus the docs will be on the web too so that non owners can take a peek to it too).
The online help is not static. It is interactive. Think of it like browsing webpages but with builtin pratical tutorial.

Let's take an example: I'm a newbie and want to learn how to use the MIDI/mp3 player.
Click on help->midi/mp3 player. read the short introduction, then click on tutorial and the Mediastation will automagically navigate the file menu, load an example .MID or MP3 file, start the playing, fiddle on the controls (on screen volume sliders) press pause, FFWD etc.
With this method you save hours of digging in the manual which greatly increases your initial productivity.
Not only will the Mediastation come with these tutorials, you can create your own one by simply pressing RECORD and then start using the the keyboard. When you are finished press FINISH and the tutorial is done. Afterwards you can even edit it (time stamped events) if you need to.
Such tutorials can be shared (via email) with other musicians or if you want you can even put them on a website and make them available for downloading or sell them.

Session management works the same way.
Need the midi player loaded with a certain MIDI file, track 1-5 muted, the style player set to Samba, the transpose of the keyboard set to -4 the sound on the keyboard set to Grand Piano program 1/variation 64 etc ?
The first time do all these things manually and then save the session to a file.
You can save an unlimited amount of sessions and recall them with a keystroke or out of a file selection. (cursor up/down for navigation, enter to select and load the session).

Does that sound like stuff for rocket science engineers ? :-)

Playing by the numbers does not make sense these days, dishonest practices are quickly uncovered thanks to broadly accessible mediums like the Internet.

PS: rumors are circulating that audio demos will be available in a few days, I'll keep you guys posted :-)

cheers,
Benno


[This message has been edited by sbenno (edited 11-12-2003).]