I mean come on, The T1 vocalizer was horrible the SD1 was not bad then the PA1x with the Helicon was great then Rolands sounded great than the T2 comes out and sounds like crap.

I thought the whole purpose of a arranger keyboard was for all in one type concept.

just venting

...... hmmmmmm ... I would expect you to get differing opinions on that ...

t.

Tony, I would trust Frank's opinion...he has owned them all..

I have heard others say the vocalizer is still weak..not up to par with the others.

My experience is only with the PSR2100 and Tyros..I thought they were okay, not great, but not a big deal to me..

Now I am spoiled with my own idea ..using multiple channels with an external vocalizer[Tune 1000's Harmony Box]..

I'll stick with the Digitech VR for now--haven't heard any onboard vocalizers that sounded nearly as good. The PSR-3000 and Tyros vocal processors can be fine tuned to sound fair to good, but they'll never get into the excellent category. I have not heard the T2's vocal processor yet, but I understand it is the same one used in the Tyros.

Cheers,

Gary

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Travlin' Easy

Sorry for the rant, I think I'll be doing the off board vocalizer for the Tyros, too bad, I like allot of things about the board,

I guess I'll have to wait for the new Ketron

I'll have to agree with Gary.......the Yammy vocalizer is just ok IF you keep the gain pod very low eg: 9:00 Oclock and boost your amp volume otherwise its a overmodulated vocal distorted mess.......Im hearing from others 3k/T1/T2 is no change.
The Digitech VR is in another class for sure but means carrying another piece of gear & more wires too hook up, is it really worth it to you? if so do it.



[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 12-30-2005).]

This vocalizer set up works best!!

Now that's a trio!

Gary

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Travlin' Easy

makeup works wonders eh?

You mean that's not NATURAL ???

Make-up ... lighting... air brush ...

Back to the original issue, I personally was not agreeing or disagreeing as I don't own a Yamaha,... it's just that I know there are people here who think it's fine ...
I use the Digitech ex, myself ...

QUOTE from Dnj:
"The Digitech VR is in another class for sure but means carrying another piece of gear & more wires too hook up, is it really worth it to you? if so do it."

You're absolutely right, Donny ... whatever works for the individual ...

t.

Yea, lets see em when they wake up, & Botoxless

We should be so lucky....

Fran, tell me more about the Harmony Box. Any advantage over the Digitech VR? Works with any midi? Sound quality, ease of use, setup, etc? Thx.

Glenn

I'm in agreement with Frank...

I have some colleagues who use off-board vocal processors. The Helicon seems to have the best ratings. I really was hoping that the T2 would be improved...

Chony

Helicon is good but has undesirable navagation vs the Digitech vr for live stage use.

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 12-30-2005).]

Glenn, I bought the Harmony Box when I was a Tune 1000 dealer...I could not sell them because it is basically a vocoder without effects..You assign the midi channel via sequencer...I loaded mine as a channel 5 vocoder[it remains in memory..]..

What it does it does well..The vocal quality is better then Digitech and Helicon, to me..It is more natural and clear..
You have 3 knobs ..harmony, lead and overall volumes..

Low impedance input as well as line in..Stereo outs..Midi in out thru..

Rackmount or table top combination..

If you have the right controller key board[and I do, G1000], you can re route any of the parts of a SMF to the channel 5 [Harmony Box setting], allowing very complex harmonies with SMF..I also can route any live time parts from the G1000 to the Harmony Box..

All my midi set ups are stored in the 8 on board user banks..for quick personalized changes..

Hopefully a future keyboard like the Roland G70 or Korg PA1X will have this capability internally to it's own harmonizer...Currently no manufacturer can do this, even using midi in/out with locals off...do not work..because the harmonizer is not a midi [internal component] option..

BTW Glenn, you can use the VR the same way, the main tool is the keyboard[if it has the capability to route the parts, and save the changes for quick access].

[This message has been edited by Fran Carango (edited 12-30-2005).]

The vocal harmonizer is like any other effect unit,it must be set up properly.The ones in the Tyros 1/2 and the 3k are the best.
Learn how to use it properly,and you will be well rewarded.
Happy New Year.
Ian
Frank,do you still have your Tyros 2 up for sale?


[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 12-30-2005).]

I have used them all, and the easiest to set-up was the G70 closely followed by the SD1. the PA1xpro was more involved but it sounds great. the T1 and T2 are more of a gimmick harmonizer and not a professional grade at all. Trust me I would like to say differently but fact is fact, play them all and you will agree, the T2 sounds very robotic, thin, and un natural.

If by some means you have figured out a setting that sounds good, please send it to me and I will be the first to apologize for my rant, but I am very confident that it will be a long time before this actually happens.

No I am not selling the T2, but if Ketron comes up with a SD1plus replacement I am there, sight un seen.

Seriously send me the file

I suggest any T2 owner/singer should get to grips with the T2 vocaliser as it certainly doesn't sound as bad as people make it out to be on here. I am not a singer myself but I've had a couple come round and I've tried it out with good results.
Fair enough it's no way near as good as a dedicated stand alone vocaliser unit, but it more than does the job as long as you don't go overboard with the settings. For solo artistes who can't afford a stand alone unit after parting with their hard earned cash on a T2 it is more than adequate.
Experiment with it and you will get results.

everyone has different taste, just like in music, I have recorded with the T2 harmonizer and with the PA1 and everyone has picked the PA as either a live group singing or an amazing sound, the T2 has always been picked as " oh you have one of those machine that adds voices "

You knoe the T2 can have weakness too, regardless of how much you paid for it

Frank,
You are not an authority on these instruments. As you have stated,people have different tastes...
We all choose what sounds best to us.Your opinion is only one of many,as is mine.
There is no winning here.The winner is the one who buys what sounds best to their ears.
All the best to you in the New Year,
Ian

Ian, who is a better authority then someone with an open mind, and has owned[not just tried] every top keyboard for the last 5 years..

I agree with Craig, that the Tyros vocalizer will work...but don;t be confused , what others are saying,,,the other guys[Roland,Korg, Gem and Ketron] are just better...It doesn't make the Tyros bad...if you are happy with it great...but also respect what people of authority know from experience[Namely Frank]..

Fran,
Because someone has tried all the top keyboards "with an open mind" does not make them an authority.
Again,we all have differing tastes about what sounds best to our own ears.
It is still only one person's opinion.
Thanks for your opinion.
Ian

You are all correct, I have just had expereince with allot of clients that have said the same thing, it is personal taste.

I'm not saying I am the authority on anything, far from that, but I'm sure if you did a blind taste test, I guarantee the Tyros will score low,. doesn't mean it can't be used and used in a good way, my father 1987 s10 pick-up is still a great truck and works well, but I would like the 2006 comfy model more.

Once again if anybody has happen to tweak the harmonizer can you send me the settings, I am very open minded, I've tried them all. just like a reviewer in a magazine, it's all opinion, take it or leave it, i really think I'm pretty darn close on this,

No offense, just friends, and I'm stating a thought I had because of the money I spent on the Tyros2 being the all mighty board I just would have hoped for a better vocalizer.

Sorry for pissing anybody off., once again just my feelings....

Ian, I agree with you, it is just one person's opinion...I just thought that since Frank had spent hours day in and day out with all of these boards[not in a music store for an hour], that he would have a pretty good insight on the matter..

I know I can not say that I have had the experience on all the top boards...that makes him more of an authority than I...

Franky dont be sorry just state your opinions pro or con....some will except it, some will learn, some will ignor it, and some will leave... This is what forum discussions are all about, the culmination of ideas & opinions.

Thank you Frank.My only beef was that someone's opinion would be taken as the end;when in fact,it should be just the beginning.
As for settings...too many variables.As you know,it depends on where,and what you are playing,and the sound of your own voice.
Again,it still boils down to individual taste.I get my best results,not with either of the Tyros(or is it Tyrii ?),but with the PSR-3000,so,again it is not always the most expensive instrument that will work the best for me.I have tried all the others extensively,and they are all satisfactory,but just not for me.
Like you,I have to really be pleased with what I hear,and like you,I make my living from performing.
Thank you for your understanding response,and,again, like you,it was not my intention to hurt anyone's feelings.I am a faithful daily reader of this forum,and find it invaluable for both personal reasons,and in my work.
Happy New Year,
Ian

[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 12-30-2005).]

Ian....I would assume your a Pro also.....would love to hear some of your work. mp3, website? etc..

I agree with the shortcomings of the Yamaha vocalizer. Presently, I'm on my 3rd Yamaha board. So, I went out and got the TC Helicon Voice Works. It fills the bill!

OK boys and girls--time to stop bickering and post your settings. This is not a peeing contest, and I for one would like to read something informative. OK--I'll go first

PSR-3000, Crown CM-311-A and Samson Q7 mics
AMP: Logitech Z-5500 and Bose PAS with a single sub, using #57 preset and fired through channels 1 & 2 from the keyboard's standard output.

My mic settings are:

Low EQ= 56, -2
Mid EQ= 1.2 khz, -4
High EQ= 8.0, +5

Noise Gate OFF, -45db

Compressor: Off, -18, 3.0, 81

Vocoder Control:
Play, Off, Lower

Bal= L35>H

Mode= Auto
Chord= XF
Mute+ Off
Vol= 85

For the vocal harmony type, the HighMaleQua seems best for my voice which is somewhat deer.

After setting up your mic and harmony settings on the keyboard, save this
information to a registration. Make sure the Mic Setting box has a check
mark in it when you press the Registration Memory button and the information
will be saved to that registration. Then name the registration and save it
again.

This provides the best vocal quality I can get from the keyboard, and on small jobs when I don't take the laptop and Digitech VR, this works OK--not great, but OK. Much better sound when harmonies are fired through the Digitech, then fired through the keyboard's line/mic in.

OK! I showed you mine, let's see yours!

Gary

------------------
Travlin' Easy

[This message has been edited by travlin'easy (edited 12-30-2005).]

Hi Dnj,
I don't have a website or any MP3 recordings. I am,however,a professional(although that means nothing more than I make money at it.)keyboardist.
I'm a former Hammond B3/FenderRhodes player, who ended up as a Yamaha Electone instructor for several years, changing over to a demo artist/ clinician job for Yamaha PKD (portables) in Eastern Canada, when the organ business went south.I also did a lot of independent clinics for music stores, and worked with other brands of keyboard arrangers,notably Roland and Korg.
Several years ago,I took on a commitment to look after the last surviving member of my family,an uncle with dementia. I had to put my Yamaha job on hold as it involved a lot of traveling,but I already had a steady weekend playing job that I was able to keep up until a year ago.I played instrumental music for a large restaurant using various arrangers from Yamaha(and Roland)and also squeezed in some duo work with various vocalists in my area.As my uncle's disease progressed,I had to cut back more and more until I stopped playing altogether,about a year ago.
I got a second hand laptop,learned how to use it,and got on the Internet to keep busy.I ended up joining several PSR Groups and was able to maintain my skills.I dabble in stylemaking,but only on the PSR and only for personal use.
My uncle ,passed away two weeks ago,so I am presently putting my career back together . First thing I want/need to get is a CD burner/recorder as this little laptop has nothing but the basics.
Now,after that very long winded reply,I will assure you,that my first MP3 will be posted here on this site.
Thanks for your interest(and your patience for reading this far!)
Ian


[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 12-30-2005).]

Ian......
Thankyou for your great reply....
I want to wish you luck in your future musical indeavors......glad to hear that you are staying in pursuit of music....you surely have to as we all do keep up wih the ever changing high tech world of music.....I've been doing that for 35+ years & learn something new every time I step on stage every day & night. Keep an open mind, absorb information, & most of all enjoy yourself. I'll be looking for your Mp3's in the furture also....
have a Happy New Year!!

Additional proof that the most expensive board may not have the best vocalizer - I own a technics kn6000 (which compared to some other boards is pricey) which IMHO is the BEST board in the world, because it is MINE !!!! ... BUT ... they could have left the vocalizer on the lab floor !!!
t.

I've got to agree that the vocalizer on the T2 is a disappointment. It's true that turning up the gain pod in the back more than just slightly causes all sorts of tinny distortion.

To ianmcnll. . .if you've got some tips for mic settings, vocalizer effects, etc., I'd like to hear about them. Thanks, DerfM

Gary. . .

Just tried your mic settings. Wow, big improvement over what I was using. Thanks.
Wonder what your doing with mic effects in the mixer (echo, etc). Cheers, DerfM

In the mixing console under the effects tab I set the reverb at Hall 2 at a level of 40 and the T-DLY at 30. The Chorus is set at 0.

Cheers,

Gary

------------------
Travlin' Easy

Yamaha took a backward step with the vocaliser since the 9000Pro.
The Korg PAX & SD1 are far better than the 3K. T1 & T2 regarding the vocaliser. (not tried the G70)

[This message has been edited by Graham UK (edited 12-31-2005).]

Uh Gary,

I'm not sure if you realize, but the Vocal settings and effects settings you specify are exactly the same as the preset settings that the Tyros provides you with. The only thing you did different was the L/H balance!

Chony

Chony,

They are quite a bit different than the factory settings in the PSR-3000, which is where my settings were made. And, if I recall, the default harmony voice is Mens Choir in both the Tyros and 3000. I use HighMaleQua, which is significantly different. Is it possible that you set your Tyros to the settings I posted at an earlier date and forgot about it. With the exception of a few parameters the vocal settings are retained after the keyboard is turned off.

Cheers,

Gary

------------------
Travlin' Easy

Hi Gary,

My Tyros 2 is new, and I never use the VH, so maybe you and the Yamaha techs just think alike! Or possibly you posted this once before, and they copied it!

Yes, the default VH is mens choir - but the vocal settings and effects are literally exactly the same.

And I do think they are good settings!

Chony

And all this time I didn't think Yamaha was paying attention, Wonder if they'll send me a check? NAH!

Cheers,

Gary

------------------
Travlin' Easy

Does anyone use the Vocoder setting with the Right Hand (Split Keyboard) used to create the harmony? I have had the SD1, PA1Xpro and now the G70. I have utilized this method on all and it works best for me. So far the G70 sounds the best with the SD1 a very close second. The PA1x I did not care for. I have never tried the Harmonizer on a Yamaha KB.