One of the reasons I have allowed myself to jump in so aggressively on negative posting against the G70 in its' defense is that Roland's marketing strategy (at least in the USA) has resulted in it's arranger line being transferred from the MI division (regular Roland Fantom and Juno, etc. stores) with knowledgeable sales staff (sometimes!!) and aggressive sales pricing, online availability and good corporate support (OS updates, new styles, good demonstrators), to it's CK division, that handles Atelier organs and the home digital pianos.

Most of these stores (few and far between, compared to the MI division's stores) are ill equipped to promote the keyboard - they are mostly real piano stores that take on a digital line to get sales from folks that can't afford a real piano - they rarely have an experienced sales force (after all, these guys make their money selling Steinways and Baldwins, the profit margin on an arranger is hardly worth their time).

As a result, Roland have gone from the G1000 being one of the strongest arrangers on the US market to the near invisibility of the G70/E80.........

And so......... when a member here posts with negative information and opinion here, few have the ability to pop into their local store and check out the validity of said information for themselves. All to often, the poster themselves has either not heard and played one, has spent very little time on one, or played one when they first came out and discovered the voicing problems that were rectified in OS2. (Roland also share the blame here in releasing the G70 before the voicing team got some US ears on it - you know those Italians and their love of reverb!)

But why am I jumping in to defend it - I don't work for Roland, after all? Well...........

Poor reviews and misinformation about a product that is difficult to find are going to result in fewer sales, fewer players making the effort to find and play one, and consequently less support from Roland than we are already getting (hard to imagine, I'm sure!).

I think the G70 to be one of the best all around keyboards in existence...... not just as an arranger, but as a all purpose gigging machine. You can do anything with one of these, from solo all arranger mode, to SMF mode, to real band mode (watch their jaws drop as you play the VK organ section or the GrandX stereo piano!)........

BUT................ if it withers on the vine of Roland's indifference and the misinformation here, I'm not likely to get too many more OS updates and new styles for it, so self interest is the true reason I post in reply to some of the asinine comments this forum has devolved into making!

I really don't give a rat's a*se whether anyone thinks that 'Yamaha sh*ts on Roland' or some of the other, equally well-reasoned opinions spewed forth here lately. But I DO care that someone, faced with a long trip to see a very expensive arranger, chooses not to based on the Tyros proselytizing that goes on here.

GO SEE ONE, GO TRY ONE, MAKE YOUR OWN MIND UP.....

Also make sure that if you DO find one, it's the UPDATED OS and not the original. If I remember correctly the original was less than favorable--which resulted in some poor reviews.

Squeak

Great post Diki......thanx for your thoughts on the subject!

So they don't like the G70 - so what? What's a big deal?

Especially if someone makes up their mind having tried the instrument, albeit for only 10 minutes.

Just let them be. Defend the G70, do not offend the other guy. And if they chose another instrument, let it be their problem. You know your G70 is the best - let them choose another brand, it will be less competition to you. After all, if you know your board is the best, why do you need others to tell you that?

BTW, feel free to substitute any make/model of any product for "G70"

I have yet to understand why some plastic casing with wiring in it that makes noises can create such hot tempers an harsh words. Surely the G70 either rings your bell or it doesnt ?

I've never owned one but i have spent some time in a music shop playing it and left uninspired and actually quite disappointed but clearly others have done exactly the same and left the shop with one in tow. I say good for them ! now lets just make great music and stop bitching like a bunch of girls ! agreed ??????

I too played it in the store. The store owner tried to convince me to buy it but i would not pay a large amount of cash for a keyboard whose sounds sucked..well to me anyway...so lets not kid ourselves because there ARE people who have tried it and had a sour experience.

And there are people who've tried it and loved it........

Jeez, don't any of you actually read the post, or do you just see 'G70' and go 'Hmmmmmm better say it sucks'? All this post was about was why I allow myself to get involved in the bitch-slapping that has been going on here lately, something I don't feel good about. It wasn't a review of the keyboard (well, not much!), but an indictment of the attitude of Roland towards marketing it.

WAY too many people have never seen or tried one, and if all they have to go on is SynthZone, it's going to die. But witness a few who USED to be nay-sayers who finally got up and went to play one, and lo and behold, they actually like it! (or don't like it, but at least they went.......)

I have never said the Tyros sucks (except as a joke/example on the Yamaha Forum!), it just doesn't work FOR ME, but I would be the last guy to say 'don't bother trying one, they suck'. Every last one of us should be encouraging any newbies or curious potential buyers to try out EVERYTHING, and not be so egotistical as to assume that THEIR opinion is the only correct one.

By the way, if you've read my posts here, you will (hopefully) see that I am NOT one who tries to offend the other guy, despite their lack of any effort to do the same, I just try to explain, as well as I can, WHY I think the way I do........ Not enough people here follow the dictum of 'if you wouldn't say it to his/her face, don't post it'.

Find a politer way to express yourself, and people will (hopefully) spend a bit more time thinking about what you wrote......... (even if they DON'T agree with it, it won't get their backs up)

If not........ well, there's always that gig at the Beirut Hilton......

Ok i am going to re live the day i tried the g70. The things that impressed me were the keyfeel, harmoniser, 16 track sequencer, make up tools, srx board expansion, good looks. The things that i was a little disappointed with were the lack of dedicated buttons for each fill in, and the continued use of a touch screen...although it is lightyears better than the pa1x touch screen. I felt the styles generally disappointed me...however they sounded better than my va5. But is most of the sounds that were the biggest let down to my ear. The pianos (incl grandx),strings,saxes,guitars,flutes,brass all disappointed me and sounded a notch below my va5. However the accordions,trumpets and choir sounds were fantastic...

Can u record a short song using some of the sounds i didnt like? i want to see if v2 sounds different. Thanks.

Every top arranger keyboard made has value. The fact is they are all great, it is only us that differ or do not have the ability to understand what the manufacturer has created. None of them SUCKS. What a terrible expression.

IMHO, John C.

Two thing to watch out for when listening to the G70 sounds........

First, in Menu->Utility->Startup make sure that 'Extended' is ON, otherwise you'll be listening to a very restricted set of sounds (pretty near all the sound from Roland's previous arrangers are in the G70, if sometimes under a different name or buried at the back of the list pages).

Secondly, turn off the MFX effects section and audition the sounds without an additional layer of effects (get to hear the basic patch - they use the Enhancer way too much for my tastes!) by Menu->Utility->Global and unselect the Upper1 MFX Link.

And, OK, thirdly (our THREE main weapons are....!) turn off the mastering tools EQ and Compressor. I feel these should be added only AFTER you have got the machine pretty dialed in and used sparingly.........

Oh, and of course (OK, OK, our FOUR main weapons are.......!) make sure you are monitoring the G70 through a STEREO rig, the bigger and fuller, the better. If all the store has is a mono keyboard amp, ask that it be plugged into a stereo PA (that's what you'll play through, after all!) or if they can't, use the finest headphones you can get your hands on........

I think the Big Deal is, people do not like having their keyboards ridiculed or belittled as it makes them feel as if they are being belittled for making a bad investment or purchase. The digs that go on about different keyboards being better or worse are taken very personally due in part to the connection the owner has with the board. Nobody likes being made to feel the fool. When you ridicule someones keyboard you are indirectly ridiculing the decission they made to buy it. I think that is bound to hurt feeling and stir up anger in some.

Nothing like beating a dead horse. We do it here more lately than I remember. I find it hard to believe that we can't be happy for others when they spend great amounts of hard earned money on one of these keyboards. Instead we often try to persuade them that they made a bad decission by not buying the board we own or like. People like feeling accepted. We shouldn't make someone feel alienated because of the type of keyboard they like and play.

"Can't We All Just Get Along?"


D.

Funny thing is the more we beat that dead horse.., we're actually helping out Yamaha and Roland All of our bitching and moaning between the two models sparks more interest in "both" of them, and others will be more inclined to check the boards out.

Squeak

I'd certainly admit we've got more interest in the G70 going since the Bitchslap-fest got started. The Tyros2 already had a lot of posts (to the point that SOME members here thought it was the Yamaha Forum!) and interest, but the first posts about the G70 about a year ago were greeted pretty hostilely, or very negative (due to Roland rushing it out before it was properly voiced).

Since then, things have improved in G70-land, with many bugfixes and new and improved features, a whole new Guitar Mode (nothing as significant added to the Tyros2 for free since it came out!), and considerable improvement (especially for European users) in the availability of high quality 3rd-party styles.

But, if you didn't know all this, you would have never guessed it from the tenor of posts here at SZ...... A fine European (in English) forum started up for G70 users, a model of what can be achieved by cooperation between users and manufacturers (some features were added or changed after only one user requested it!), and few G70 users bothered with this place for quite a while, so the whole level of awareness disappeared.

Lately, there's been a resurgence of interest and a concomitant upsurge of bad opinions (some people just don't want to admit that for other players, THEIR opinion could be invalid), but I guess it's like they say........ There's no such thing as BAD publicity!

Anything that gets players to make the (often long) journey to the Roland CK dealer to actually try one for themselves can't be all bad, but it has been leaving a bad taste in my mouth reading some of the potty-posts here!

Like I said...... the more Roland sell, the more likely I will get more OS updates and new styles!!

I admire your patience Diki, you are doing a good job in this forum.

Its a pleasure to discuss music with Diki for sure !