Hi,

I'm planning to buy an arranger keyboard as addition to my Korg M3 for playing and jaming just at home. My music style is more Dance/POP/Electronic.
Two keyboards came to my attraction: The Korg PA800 and the Yamaha PSR-S900.

The sounds on both are outstanding. But actually the PA800 wins slightly to the PSR-S900:
Better Keys, more "modern sounding " styles, better build quality, touch screen, design.
The PSR-S900 wins in terms of chord recognition and the possibility to control the bass etc.

How do you think? What arrange would you prefer?

Cheers
Frank

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iMac 20" CoreDuo 2GHz, Focusrite Saffire LE, Korg M3-61 w/ EXB-Radias, Logic Express, Legacy Collection (A/D), Stylus RMX, Addictive Drums

[This message has been edited by Hellrider (edited 07-20-2007).]

Frank, having no experience with either keyboard, but having experience with a similar arranger from each camp, I would lean (at this time) to the Korg. I say 'at this time' because in recent months I have gone thru a Korg iX300, Yamaha PSR2000 and a Roland G70. I like the Korg styles, the Yamaha OS and the Roland sounds. The Korg styles were definitely more expressive. If you threw a G50 in the mix, I would pick the PA800, S900 and G50 in that order.

BUT, I don't think you can go wrong with either of your choices. Only you can make that final decision. My opinions are based on personal preferences and may or may not be similar to yours. Good luck.

Hi Frank
The PA800 is considerably more expensive then the S900 and so they cannot be compared like for like, however both are good at their price points.
I you are looking at the PA800 (Make sure you demo it with the latest OS 1.5) also take a look at the Ketron SD 5 as another option.
In all cases you will need to go for 3rd party styles, (Or create your own) as Arrangers are general purpose and so having a limited range of all different style categories. (Yamaha probably has the most 3rd party styles available)
Hope this helps

Bill

I'd like to hitchhike onto this question. I have a store credit and have to make a decision on a new kb to supercede my Korg i.. I too have kind of narrowed it down to pa800 and s900. I had a very brief 15-min tryout of the pa and was very impressed with the sound quality. I'm waiting for local stores to get s900 on the floor so i can try one. but when I do there will not likely be a pa800 also on the floor that i can compare a/b. As primarily a standards/jazz/latin/blues player who uses only 12-18 sounds, mostly just bass/drum parts of arranger backings, no smf's, no sequencing..no voc harmonizing even though I sing, both kb's offer a whole lot of features I will never likely use. my main concerns are key feel, sound quality, ease of storing and accessing favorite sounds on-the-fly, ease of moving style-to-style, ease of muting parts withins styles, quality of fills and endings, good chord recognition re the bass lines, good "walking" bass lines, logical development of var.1-4, and above all, great bass/drum backing in the genres I play in, not boring clunky rhythms. can anyone give me any insights/advice too?

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Miami Mo

As Abacus said, they are in two different price ranges so they can't be compared as similar. The PA should win hands down when comparing the two because you're getting what you pay for. I would definitely get the PA if you can. I do like the s900 with what time I had on it. I think I will get one in the near future, but my funds are always limited so I can only get a new board every couple of years, if that.

Hope this helps,

Jeff

If you're looking to play "modern music" on an arranger..., without question I'd say buy the Korg PA800. The S900 is a nice arranger (it costs less too), but Yamaha arrangers (with the exception of the DJX line) have been very weak in the "modern style" area. IMO Yammies have always worked better for more traditional styles of music.

The Korg is also going to give you a freakin killer synth engine too--plus the sounds are "Triton Based", where as the S-900's are well.., PSR based (Yamaha to date doesn't go the other way in the sound department with their arrangers). It's not to say the PSR sounds are bad.., they'll be quite good, however the soundset won't be favorable for modern music.

If you can afford the PA-800 I say buy that one and never look back With the synth engine, good effects, modern sounds and styles..., I'd say the PA would fit your needs quite well. To be honest I'd even take a Korg PA-50 over the S-900 if it was "modern music" that I was wanting to do with an arranger.

Any answer to your question is going to be subjective. That doesn't mean it doesn't have value, but......you should treat all the responses as preparation for a live audition of the keyboards. Only your ears, combined with your comfort level with the ergonomics/navigation, keyfeel, style suitability, and price, should be the deciding factor. If you choose to ignore this advice, buy the Korg .

chas

Mo,
For the kind of music you are looking for and for ease of use, the Yamaha sure seems like the choice to me. The other posts so far seem to keep talking about playing more modern music. Korg has been famous for dance, hip hop and synth sounds since the triton was released. Although the 800 does a really nice job on providing acoustic sounds, the Yamaha has great acoustsic instruments and a nice selection of synth sounds as well. It has an easier to use interface and their Swing and Jazz, Latin and other ballads are beautiful to listen to. I still think the articulated Sax and trumpet sounds are more realistic then the PA800. Those that suggest the key feel is better on the PA800, I would think they are talking about the key feel on the older (62 note polyphony) PA1X and PA1XPRO keyboards. The action on the PA800 feels like the PA50, which is a very light, with not much response keyboard. The Yamaha is at least equal to the PA800 action if not a little better.
The other issue becomes if you like touch screens or buttons to choose things. Some feel very strongly either way.
For muting tracks and using registration memories, the Yamaha is in my opinion, easier to use and faster.
Sound wise, both are very good and I think the Yamaha is easier to turn of style parts you don't want and easier to call up banks of registrations that you set up for specific jobs or sets. I also find it much easier to select and program what features you want "frozen" when you hit the freeze button within the registration functions.
At $1599 vs $2699 the Yamaha gives a lot of bang with great sounds and styles. There are more intro's, endings and fill ins on the Yamaha then the Korg. Both have a ton of styles. I like that I can record wave file 16bit demo's of my vocals, midifiles, and styles right on a USB drive. With the new Korg operating system, you can record MP3's but only after purchasing a MP3 board which gets installed in the keyboard.
For midi file playback, the Yamaha is the fastest to find, load and play. Korg takes more time.


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George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California
818-881-5566
www.kayesmusicscene.com

I am new to this forum and find the info very helpful. I to am looking to buy an arranger keyboard. The PSR S900 was my choice but I have had a deal presented to me for the Tyros2 for 2995.00 US dolars. I think this is a good price but I am not sure how it sounds through the Tyros speakers. How is the vocals thru these and the piano. All the rest seems to sound pretty good on the demos. Any help would be great......

George, thanks, I'm waiting anxiously for a call from gtr ctr and/or sam ash who are supposed to let me know when they get the s900 on the floor to try one..If I like it I'll be back atya to send me one..and then i have to figure out how to use up the other $500 of my credit. I hope they have the s700 also..I believe it has mic input but no harmonizer, which I have little interest in.. then I just have to decide if the extra SA sounds and extra styles on the s900 are those I'd use..unless there are other differences that i'm not considering..but if i buy the s700 from you then I need to figure out what to do with $1100 credit LOL.... I was thinking about an amp but I got back a 1985 Carlsbro 12" amp I had loaned to a cousin and vocals sound great thru it with that little Behringer mixer w/effects you sold me. I'm putting my old ART tube unit on the kb line as a pre-amp on a separate channel on the Carlsbro and it really warms and fills out the sound. whole rig is on a wheeled roller with powerstrip on top too and I have no setting up to do..I'll never use stands and separate speakers again. the kb speakers sort of serve as monitors, I set them at full gain. The Carlsbro's had a rep for unreliability, however, so I may have to still consider a new all-in-one amp. ideas? I was considering the sd5 in the mix, too.. but I tried that for bit when I tried the pa800 and didn't think the sound quality was up to the korg..but i liked the key feel and the layout and what i heard of the bass/drum backings seemed very good..and the riff feature is limited, but it is a nice extra nevertheless. I does weigh 11 lbs more than the s900, however--big minus for me. how do you think the 2 of them compare for me?..from what you said here i'll pass on the pa800. I don't care about "modern" or dance styles as much as hip latin and jazz that really swings..and i don't hate touch screens but prefer buttons.

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Miami Mo

Mo,
There is no mic input on the PSRS700 and your opinion of the SD5 is right on. Good semi weighted feel, very good styles, but most of the sounds are just good and not a up to date as the Yamaha and Korg. I happen to think the riff function is not very useful because of not being able to put your own chord progressions in. It's a dated keyboard and it just came out 1 year ago!


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George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California
818-881-5566
www.kayesmusicscene.com

My take on this would be... If you already have a Korg M3, why duplicate it with another Korg? There isn't anything in the PA800's voice set that isn't probably better in the M3's, or it's vastly superior sampler can't add.

BUT.... the S900's SA voices and Mega voice technology is completely different to Korg's imitative sounds, and could add (at considerably less cost than a T2) some very realistic sounds that the M3 is NOT capable of doing. The only thing I would double-check is the MIDI implementation of the S900... can it send any keyboard or arranger part out to the M3 and not to it's internal engine, and can it receive on any channel from the M3's arpeggiator?

Integrating those two different soundsets and pattern creation tools into one should make for a very flexible system...

BTW, I can't wait to play an M3, the demos are awesome. My local dealer should have one soon. How is the Karma 2 technology at doing more traditional styles like jazz or pop?

Ok George as always you give great advice. I hope I like that s900, but it still bugs me that the E60 had such shortcomings for me. I miss the 76, light weight, nice key feel, excellent sounds and styles. I think Roland dropped the ball on this (but maybe they were just afraid it would hurt the g70 if it was too pro?) all they have to do is come up with an OS update that better employs 8 of the buttons they already have to make the E60 a real pro gig-friendly ax. just redo the 4 d-beam and 4 one-touch programs. .anyway I hope the stores in the northeast get the s900 asap..gettin' itchy to check one out! does your Yamaha rep have a clue as to arrival? btw did roland ever answer you re the as-300 kb amp?

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Miami Mo

Personally, I haven't been attracted to either Tyros model, so I would probably stick with the S900. Despite all the hype and positive feedback, the Tyros doesn't look or sound any better (imho) than The PSR 3000 or the S900. There may be more features, but are they one you need or will use. Save the money and go with the S900.

...for what it's worth

I must agree with cassp...I have a PSR-S900(having had a Tyros2 for several months)and it's a real beauty...and a bargain.

Ian

Mo.... a new E60 OS allows you to use the useless V-Link button as an assignable switch (with a large choice of destinations). It's not everything you wanted, but it IS an improvement. I agree that a lot of the D-Beam assignments strike me as frivolous, but I guess somebody wants them that way But it still wasn't a deal breaker for me (the G70 offers a lot more footswitch control).

Diki, thanks for info..i forgot about the v-link being the 9th useless or poorly assigned button on the E60.. it's good they did something with that. one more control button, great. but still need more, they have to reassign at very least one more d-beam button and make it a control button, too. and the 4 one-touch buttons: just a waste as they are-- if they saved favorite sounds like ketron and korg--a different story. the fact they did change the os is encouraging,however-shows they listen. if I'm not knocked out by the s900 i'd love to think that roland might take the extra steps that would put me back in the E60 fold. there is no foot controller option like your g70 has so it IS a deal-breaker for me that the hand controls are so poor.(and at 45 lbs the g70 is not an option for me)

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Miami Mo

Well, we DID talk about using MIDI pedals in the past. I know it's a bit of a hassle (but not a whole lot more than learning the OS in the first place), but if the E60 sounds, styles and the form factor are right up your street, it seems a shame to not use one just because you don't want the task of programming the foot pedals...

I just don't see Roland completely revamping the D-Beam concept, no matter how many times we tell them it's dumb! Just like most manufacturers, they are hard to turn away from a proprietary concept, no matter how much you wish they would... Since day 1 of the G70, I've been begging for more practical choices for the D-Beam EFX (actually, I want the choice of ANY sound, not their limited selection). And the DJ choices only make sense if the arranger is really good for techno and dance styles in the first place, which I would say, compared to Korg, it is not...

But, if I can't get them to return the indispensable Chord Sequencer, what chance do we have of this major change..? Just knuckle down and learn how to program the MIDI pedals, and you won't have to wait for Roland to do your bidding before the E60 is acceptable...

Hi cassp

Nothing personal here, but, the main thing I want to get across to potential buyers that go by what others say is, that you ought to try them out first and conclude if they sound the same.(they don't, not opinion, fact.), which one gives you what you really need/want in relation to how much you want to spend.

The PSR3000, a fine keyboard, sounds similar to the Tyros 1, BUT IT IS NOT IDENTICAL IN SOUND, and anyone being misled into believing they are saving a bundle of money to get an identical sounding instrument is being, mislead, deluded , rationalizing or I am sorry to say suffering from a hearing impairment.

I have not hear the S900, but I can assure you the same will hold true compared to the Tyros 2, (unless Yamaha has totally lost their minds

Is it worth it to spend the extra money for a Tyros version over the PSR. IMHO, I would be willing to spend more than I did on a Tyros 2 to get what I've got in relationship the the PSR. There is that much difference, if you really are using all the voice families etc.

Again, this is meant mostly for the lurkers who come here to get advice. Try them out, see which one fills YOUR criteria. Don't take my word for it. This is not a my toys are better than yours, I had a 3000 and T1. The PSR made me unhappy, after playing the Tyros. The Tyros1 & 2 wows me every time I play it.

Being able to layer 3 right hand sounds and having aftertouch makes a major difference plus many other things.

Many players are perfectly happy with the PSR3000 and I'm sure the same will hold true for the S900, I want to try one out myself. So if you like the 3000 or 900 great!

My opinion: never live by anyone else's opinion. What makes you happy may be totally different.

Not meant to stir things up, but, it wouldn't surprise me if it did.

Best
Scott

http://ScottLMusic.com



[This message has been edited by Scott Langholff (edited 07-22-2007).]

Oh, and BTW, you CAN use the OTS buttons to store favorite sounds... You just use them to store four setups, and Hold the style, tempo and keyboard layout.

There is a software program that can copy these to the styles. The advantage is that, per style, you can pick and choose which four favorites you want...

Plus, you can Hold style and layout, and change UPG's (registrations) which opens a big door on accessing sounds while you play. Most of what you are familiar with from other arrangers can be done on a Roland, they just have a different way of achieving it...

Hi Ian

I missed your post when I quickly scanned this thread before and was forced, haha, to express my ideas.

I have heard your recordings on the 3000 and love them. They sound great, my wife enjoys them too.

For the style of music you like to play, the real differences between Tyros/PSR may not be important to you as well as others.

Many people will or are already thoroughly enjoying their 3000/S900.

But, if a person likes 3 layered organ or horn sections with aftertouch effects, among other things, as I do, having been a Hammond player and a trumpet and sax player in combos to big bands, there is so much difference.

So many voices with the same name sound noticeably different also. As much as I tried to get the 3000 to sound like the Tyros, it never happened. I came closer interestingly enough though when I used a Behringer UB802 mixer, set to flat. The change in sound was noticeably closer.

I expect it to be about the same between the T2 and S900, but will have to try it for myself.

I just become concerned for people who read these threads who have different needs and criteria than the poster and they get one keyboard when the other would have been better in their case.

Thought I'd explain my explanation

Scott





[This message has been edited by Scott Langholff (edited 07-23-2007).]

Hi Scott,

I appreciate your kind words on my music...thank you.

My preference for the 3k/S900 probably has to do with several issues.

I am not a big fan of multiple layered voices, having developed a style of my own where less is more, and the stacking of two voices is plenty for my kind of arrangements.

The Tyros, and especially the Tyros2 are heavy(for me) and don't have built in speakers (a necessity for me) and the T2 was unable to fit in my Honda Accord when it was in a soft shell case.

I never really tried to make the 3k sound like the Tyros, but rather enjoyed the instrument for its own sound and merits.

I will probably treat the PSR-S900 the same way...its certainly not a Tyros2, but it does have terrific SA voices and it does have a certain quality of sound that I really like.

All the best,

Your buddy,

Ian

Diki,

I really appreciate your desire to help. there are 2 issues re the midi pedals you suggest:

one is, i prefer not to be dependent on pedals, but to have them as an option. as much as i have tried to get pedals to be 2nd nature to me, i seem to only be able to do 2 operations at best (start/stop and fill) as 2nd nature.. so often it's easier and faster to use hand controls than think/look to my feet.

two is, when one knows how to do something, it's hard to put yourself in the place of someone who doesn't know the first thing about it. It's not as simple as buying midi pedals and reading a manual..and it's not just me, others on sz have said the same. however, if i can pay someone to program it, maybe that's an option. interested?

as far as the 4 ot's, i remember doing the hold thing for the first group of 4...but it was limited and it didn't work beyond the 4 as i recall (been a while-can't remember exactly) news to me about a software program that would help..but again that's something I'd need a lot of help with.

If I'm not sold on s900, I'll explore the options for the E60 you suggest. btw I have no objections to the d-beam per se, just how the 4 buttons are programmed.

ps. re the CS: i fully appreciate why you miss it so. for someone like me, however, who never plays arranger-style with silent left hand, and mostly uses bass/drum, if there's good chord recognition, single note recognition w/bass inversion, full kb recognition, i find i am not tied down to repeating same Lh chord patterns and am pretty able to play freely for the most part

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Miami Mo

ok, using

is not giving me paragraphs, writing original w/ spaces doesn't work.. don't know how to get it done. anyone? Nigel?

... got a new Roland G70 for sale. Contact me at axa130@hotmail.com if interested. Currently well priced at $2400.00 shipped in the USA (or best offer).

Hi Ian

That's a good explanation of why you like the PSR over the Tyros. And I agree that what you want to do can easily be handled by the PSR.

I enjoy the combo sound that you achieve and if I were content to only do that, then heck, I'd be content having my old PSR2000, which I loved, back to get that kind of effect.

I also would prefer it if the T2 weighed the same as a PSR, was smaller in size and had onboard speakers. I actually believe that this could be done, but Yamaha has chosen the size and appearance of the Tyros 1/2 for aesthetic purposes more than actual necessity.

I prefer the size of the PSR for the same reason as you. I used to could put everyting into the trunk of our Sentra or Cavilier. Not so with the Tyros models. That does fit into my back seat using a Kaces III #9 case with wheels. The Yamaha Tyros case was much longer than it needed to be and I could not have fit it into the back seat just lying on the seat as the Kaces case will allow.

I aggree with you in enjoying the PSR for what it is and not going with the idea that it is identical to the Tyros does make the most sense.

Best
Scott

in reference to the original post, if you are looking at the price range of the pa800, then consider the sd1+...i owned a pa800, and i considered the soundset to be average to good, the piano still was bad!! very light keys and only 61 of them.Also the speakers sound pretty average...the sd1+ eats the pa800 on a styles basis, although on sounds its about even BUT the sd has a much much better piano..
just my view..
dennis
PS almost forgot the ONLY thing with the ketron is the support is terrible...we have only one dealer out here and, nice as he is, he has no technical knowledge at all, and the people in the states who can help wont because you are not buying from them...so as far as working the keyboard out you are pretty much on your own..just thought id better add that

[This message has been edited by miden (edited 07-23-2007).]

I love my SD1+.....I performing some of the best music I have ever played all around sounds & styles. People like Dan O, Prince AJ, Yahoo Ketron Forum, to mention a few are great places to ask for help which is always given.....besides the manuals........the only thing I would every consider in the future to add to what I have is the New Ketron "AUDYA"....when it arrives I'll be there to play one for sure!!

Good Luck

donny, they may be hepful to you..after all you bought gear from them,but accept that it is not the same for everyone...and the ketron forum is a bit of a waste of space for pretty much anything technical that needs to go below the surface...its great if you want to swap midis, or chat about your dog and cat, whatever...but not for serious forum discussions on the technical aspects of the keyboards...and no-one responds much at all....but having said that the SD1+ is still a SUPER board, and apart from terrible overdrive and distortion guitars (even in the upper banks) it is the equal of ANY arranger board out there, probably even better!!
dennis

dennis the people I have mentioned often lurk in the wings of those forums and have continually given me in depth answers to all my question when I was getting set up publicly & in private emails....combining that with my own prior working arranger knowledge I could always figure out the rest for all my needs alternating it with the manual.......I dont use distortion guitars for anything sorry.BUt I will agreethe Sd1+ is a Killer unit for sure!

hey donny,
fair enough...maybe i am being a bit harsh...but it was a frustrating time trying to come to grips with the op sys(totally different to Y-K-R)..which i am now understanding more and more....
dennis

Dennis I'll agree Dan thru the years & Aj which I both know and have met many times ....always told me the key to success with the Ketron units is learning the OS which indeed is a bit different then most of the other units on the market...but actually pretty easy to understand once you get the gist of it & how it works ....
I acually like it so much more then Yamaha on stage for sure for my way of navigating....followed by the G70 OS...
On the Ketron having 80 One touch sounds at my ready is awesome.....8 pages of 10 sounds each on the display at the touch of a button to make split second changes is all I need....then new Juke box feature is also an excellent way to play SMF's & have another cued if needed......the list goes on & on...New JAM Styles, Bonus styles, Drum remix,Bassist, New Pattern view,
Text mode,Style converter, Chord solo,
Dry On Stop Mic feature, Vocalizer, 2 mic inputs, & more .....

The use of audio .WAV files in real time with a Midi file linked with the transposition and change of the tempo thanks to a proprietary algorithm
that does not alter the timbre for compatible intervals.

 The sampled grooves, processed and entered in the Styles to provide that certain musical realism that is impossible to achieve with a simple
drum kit.

 The Mutes of the individual instruments of a sampled groove.

 Two drum tracks for each style.

 The possibility to display a text file (.TXT) while using the Arranger to do away with awkward packs of song sheets and booklets.

 The complete automation of all loading procedures via the Registrations that can load for example the words, the audio files and the Midi
file of a song all in one go.

 Management of the hard disk via a serial port on a separate PC to organise your own back-up copies and to view all the files on a larger
display.

I love this unit!! The more you play it and dig in the easier it gets!

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 07-23-2007).]

more proof that everyone has to hear for themselves: I a/b'd the pa800 and sd1+/sd5 through the same sound system, and found the sound quality of the ketrons average to good, and the sound quality of the korg truly excellent, especially the piano. I liked the ketron rhythms and key feel much better tho.

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Miami Mo