I play a stereo digital piano with small acoustic jazz combos in small venues at low volumes.
How do you like your Bose 802s?
And how are they compared to the new Bose PAS for personal monitors?
The new Bose PAS (mono) is a vertical array of twenty four 2.25" drivers and has better dispersion. Two 802s (stereo) contain sixteen 4.5" drivers (eight in each cabinet)and it also requires a processor. Putting the dispersion differences aside, please give me opinions about the differences between the clarity, smoothness and natural sound of the drivers when used with their respective processors and ample power.

[This message has been edited by rintincop (edited 02-09-2004).]

rintincop: I recently sold my Bose 802's. I used them when I was working (lead singer/keyboards) with a band (over ten years ago). For vocals, they were superb, but for reproducing the full spectrum of sound required by arranger keyboards, a sub woofer is mandatory. Because in addition to the 802 speakers, a powerful amp as well as the Bose Controler module is needed, and then a sub woofer to boot, I found it more trouble than it was worth to haul around for a single act or even duo act. I'm much happier with my EV SxA100 self powered PAs: lighter and less to haul around, and pleasing smooth sound. - Scott

I'm using a pair of 802 with a pair of subs to do PA for my keys/drums/vocals duo (all going through the PA). We have a graphic on the BOSE to give the high end some zip. I would absolutely agree that for full range use you really to have to use the BOSE controller. The 802's are also not very efficient. For small places this wouldn't be much of an issue, but like Scott says you are still carting a separate amp and controller around as well.

The sound is top notch, mind, and very smooth. Having them up on stands means that the projection is pretty good too.

The new PAS system is coming from a different perspective and looks really good for the more "intimate" venues, as well as being more tranportable. Having the amp built in is one less thing to carry. Reviews so far suggest the sound is also very good, but personally with Bose I take that as a given anyway!

Thanks guys

I just spoke with a sound man who runs the PA for a band that used 802s for years and is now using the PAS. He gave me his opinion that the smaller drivers in the PAS have greater clarity than the larger drivers in the 802s

[This message has been edited by rintincop (edited 02-09-2004).]

Scott,

Where did you get your EV SX100A speakers?
I have been considereing them too.
Do you really think they have the same high level of clarity for a solo digital piano act as the Bose?

I am not doing any pop or music with fat bass, would a pair of 802s without a sub really not be enough range?

Thanks Mac,

How loud is your duo playing and what style of music through your Bose 802 system? How many watts are you giving it? As you probably know, my aplication is for my personal monitoring system for my Yamaha stereo digital piano.
I play straight ahead jazz, nothing loud or punchy.

rtc

Guitar Center. Unfortunately they no longer carry EV.



Yes, but I'd also seriously consider the Motion Sound KP200S. The Bose 802s produce great mids, but drop off too sharply in the bass to handle acoustic piano low notes & those critically important harmonic overtones. I'm really begining to think the Motion Sound KP200S (or perhaps the KP100S with upgraded woofer) may be your best bet for the type of venue you're doing, and which sounds very similar to what I do as well.



I do NOT recommend the 802's alone with its associated Bose controller unit for full range acoustic piano reproduction. Like you, I also am not into boomy fat bass, but desire a natural smooth acoustic warm bass. The 802's alone do not go down far enough to reproduce this. I had initiallly purchased my 802s over ten years ago because I was utilizing them primiarily for my vocals when I was in a band. Since going solo, they remained in the closet until fairly recently, when finally I sold them to a gal who is using them exclusively for vocals. - Scott

Thanks Scott,

Anyway I can come hear your EV SX100As at a gig? The Motion Sound KP200 is heavier than I want to move. The KP100 is not stocked in the area

It sounds like you had the earlier 802s, they are up Mark III versions now and came out with a new "Pan Array Digital" processor two years ago, the early processor was pretty bad. They go down to 60 hz now

Rintincop, where exactly are you located? I purchased my KP100S Motion Sound stereo keyboard amp via mail order from Synthzone member , Dan O'Neil at Keyboard City in Baltimore, MD: http://www.keyboardcity.net/

Yes, I owned the older Bose 802's. Perhaps the current version has an improved bass response (I don't know, haven't heard the Mark II's myself) , but transport and setup will be less convenient than the self powered EVs and even less convenient to setup than a Motion Sound Amp, which is basically just set down and play, no tall tripod stands needed to lift the speakers up onto. I'm even seriously considering adding the larger KP200S at a later date. I would think transporting the one piece (abeit heavier) KP200S should still be fairly easy with a portable handtruck cart. - Scott

[This message has been edited by Scottyee (edited 02-09-2004).]

scot....might be a good way to go for you....KP10 for small gigs.....kp200s large gigs....plus the kp100 for a monitor if needed?

Donny, Bingo! Yes, the beauty (to me) of the KP100S (with upgraded woofer) is that can perform double duty as both a main source & monitor for smaller venues and then as a convenient personal stage monitor for larger venues.

I'm curious now just 'how large' a room and maximum number of people (for arranger show concert venue) the larger more powerful KP200S can handle. Perhaps Jim Eshleman (the Pro) or other KP200S gigging solo arranger kb musician owners can provide those numbers again.

With my KP100S amp, I'm able to easily transport it on my ultra lightweight collapsible 'Superlite' hand truck: http://www.pstco.com/superlite_cobra.htm
I'm afraid the 'Superlite' hand truck is too small to fit the KP200S though. Curious what (sturdy, yet small as possible) portable handtruck would be the best match for the KP200S. Jim, I assume you're not attempting to lug & transport your KP200S around by it's top handle, right? What (if any) hand truck or cart are you using to transport your KP200S? Thanks, - Scott

Thanks Scott,

What do you mean exactly by upgraded woofer?
Why did you upgrade and with what?

Thanks
rintincop

Hi Rintincop, Please read this thread:
http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/Forum37/HTML/006415.html

for details on the 'upgraded' woofer that both Beakybird (Larry Levin) and I swapped our stock KP100S woofers for. We both feel it was well worth the extra expense for the added bass response. Before making the modification, I spoke with the President of Motion Sound, who assured me that replacing the speakers would be easy and would not void the warranty on my Motion Sound amp. It took less than 10 minutes to swap both speakers out (basically plug & play and removing cabinet screws). Though I sugguested to him that they should release the KP100S now with the new improved better sounding bass woofer, he advised me that the increased cost would have raised the KP100S' 'price point' too high and affect sales to their target market for that amp. Though I was disappointed to hear him say this, I at least feel greatful now to have a pretty lightweight 'all in one' stereo speaker unit which works well & sounds good for small-medium venues, and with satisfying bass for light acoustic jazz material. - Scott

rintincop

We are a function / dance band doing pop covers and traditional "dance" music with occasional excursions into FM rock if we can get away with it. Tend to be quite bassy on the pop / disco / "modern" dance / rock stuff but can still pull it back for quicksteps / waltzes / ballands etc.

Even though I say it myself the system sounds surprising good even at very low levels. When driving harder the capabilties of the bass units really give it some punch.

I don't think we've ever got near the limits of the system.

The PA is this:

Behringer 2642 desk (I think)(8 mono, 4 stereo, 4 extra stereo, 2 subgroups) into KAM Graphic (set to give gradually increasing treble boost from about 1k up to 16k finishing at +12db) into Studiomaster Active Crossover @ 150Hz into Yamaha driving the Bose's and an Audiotech 1200P (budget GB no longer made, soon to be replaced possibly by Behringer or another Yamaha) about 600 a side into 4 ohms (but uncalibrated attenuation so the bass balance is set by ear) driving the subs which are 4 ohm Peavey Black Window 15" in homebrew ported cabinets.

The Bose are driven by a Yamaha P3500s amp set to -10db attenuation. I think this amp could get to 450 a side into 8 ohms. I suspect we've never got past about 200 for any sustained period.

I don't think we've ever driven the mixer consistently into the red (i.e. over 0db on the meters). The graphic and crossover are set to give no gain so (apart from the effects of the graphic) the level coming out of the desk should be that reaching the amps.

Yam amp details: http://www2.yamaha.co.jp/manual/pdf/pa/english/amp/P7000SE.pdf