For some folks, doing other things while performing a song is a difficult task, one that often leads to lots of dead time between songs. For others, there is no dead time between songs--ZERO! How is this accomplished?

Share your performance secrets with others at the Chat Room tonight at 7:00 P.M..

See you there,

Gary

Well, it was a quiet night in the chat room, so here's some of the stuff I posted for debate:

For some folks, doing other things while performing a song is a difficult task, one that often leads to lots of dead time between songs. For others, there is no dead time between songs--ZERO! How is this accomplished?

The laptop is hooked to the keboard via USB A to USB B, while the laptop's earphone out hooks up to the 3000s auxiliary input. The only problem I have is the diffence in volume levels between the laptop's earphone out and the keyboard's internal volume for styles and midi files.

I think, fortunately, I've found a simple, inexpensive solution--a small pre-amp kit that sells for just $13 and is the size of a package of cigarettes. It is available in kit form from an outfit called J-kits in Elmwood Park, NJ 888-595-8766. I just ordered the first one to see if it works. If it does, all the volumes will be equal, MP3s, midi and styles. Swithching between these is the key to ending dead time. Guess I need to post a lesson on this when I get a few free hours to type it up and shoot the photos. BTW You can find the kits online at J-Tron


I'm really interested in hearing how others provide their audiences with seamless entertainment and eliminate dead time.

Cheers,

Gary

[This message has been edited by travlin'easy (edited 03-24-2005).]

[This message has been edited by travlin'easy (edited 03-24-2005).]

Hi Gar, I think the amount of time between songs, and what you do with it, has a lot to do with the type of venue as well as the size of the room. Performing nonstop from song to another thru the entire set can often give the impression that you're an automatic CD player, or 21st century version of a player piano. That type of gig is not for me. I find, especially for the more casual and/or intimate venues, that brief (30 sec-1 min between songs) chit-chat (to acknowledge people in the crowd) sharing interesting/humorous trivia about songs or topics of the day, as well as bringing the audience into the act, are an important to your act as the music itself. I typically do about 3-4 songs in a roll (zero dead time), and then depending on the mood-energy & interest in the room, will throw in a little chit chat (20 sec -1 min). This gives the patrons (audience) the opportunity to mingle & get another drink, etc. and provides a pace which gives the audience a better appreciation (and desire) to hear the NEXT song. Every mood venue is different and the pace of the music should reflect this. For back to back songs performance, I do medley sets consisting of 3-5 songs that share a theme: subject (cities, etc) or featuring a specific artist/composer known for those songs. Other times (especially on casual gigs), I might think of the next song I'm going to perform (possibly utilizing the SAME arranger style) , while I'm performing the previous song, making for an easy on the fly transition on the arranger, perhaps merely slowing/speeding the tempo of the existing style for the next tune in the same style.

One missing feature I would greatly appreciate being added to the Yamaha Music Finder is the ability to search/scroll thru its database while I'm performing in auto accomp mode. Currently if you search/scroll the MFD while performing, the selected style/tempo automatically begins when a new entry is merely scrolled to. I would like to be able to conveniently 'cue up' the next song style/tempo selection, and have it begin only after I've finished performing the current song. This would greatly assist in reducing downtime during spontaneous 'song selection' performance. As I've stated many times here, I think the the Yamaha MFD potential is powerful. I only wish that Yamaha would fullfill it, and take it to the NEXT level by:

1) Greatly increasing the Yamaha internal USER area memory to support a LOT more MFD style file storage (10mb+), and/or adding MFD access to styles located on remote media.

2) Add MFD feature to support saving a custom REG Memory Bank file with each MFD record. This would greatly increase the MFD power to include: key transpose, voice selection, and ALL other custom memory settings supported by Reg Memory.

3) Ability for MFD pointer to remain at pre-selected entry without jumping back to the first record when the MFD window is exited.

4) Ability to 'cue up' songs in MFD, and have the next selection song style/tempo begin ONLY after a susequent button is pressed, allowing for more convenient on the fly 'song to song' (no dead time) performance. Until then, it appears (to me) that utilizing registrations is the next best thing, abeit not allowing as much 'on the fly' song selection flexibility.

Ok, that's all I have to contribute on this topic 4 now. I 2 am interested to hear from others on this good topic.

Scott

One missing feature I would greatly appreciate being added to the Yamaha Music Finder is the ability to search/scroll thru its database while I'm performing in auto accomp mode. Currently if you search/scroll the MFD while performing, the selected style/tempo automatically begins when a new entry is merely scrolled to. I would like to be able to conveniently 'cue up' the next song style/tempo selection, and have it begin only after I've finished performing the current song. This would greatly assist in reducing downtime during spontaneous 'song selection' performance. As I've stated many times here, I think the the Yamaha MFD potential is powerful. I only wish that Yamaha would fullfill it, and take it to the NEXT level by:

Scott, you can scroll through the MFD using the scrolling wheel without selecting anything. I do this all the time. Then, when I'm ready for the song, I merely press the Enter button and press a key. You never have to leave the MFD unless you wish to use another function, and then the MFD returns to the beginning again, which I too consider an oversight by Yamaha's engineering department.

Gary

Gary, MANY thanks for refreshing my distance memory. I remembered being able to accomplsh this a while back, but had somehow forgotten that the scroll 'wheel' works differently than the scroll buttons. I'm looking forward to cueing up songs via scroll wheel now.

Scott

Scott, I totally agree that it is important to leave a little time between numbers. It also can give the establish time to sell drinks or take orders.
DonM

How much time is 'tolerated' depends on what the audience is doing.
If the crowd is only listening to (background) music longer periods are fine, but dancing people allow only some seconds (15?). At least in the Netherlands, dancing couples leave the dance-floor as soon as it takes too long before the next song comes.

On stage we have NO fixed song-blocks with the same songs in it, but decide on the fly what the next song will be : We communicate the song-number.... (1 - 200)

The Music Finder is a great tool to find the right style to a song... at home.
On stage however the searching in the list is just too much 'Human CPU-load' taking and NOT the fastest/easiest way IMHO.

I own the Tyros for a month or so and find the Registration Memory (Scott, almost KN alike) very easy and quick.

It took me a week, but tonight I finished converting our current repertoir (200 songs)from SD1 to Tyros equivalents.

The result: about 24 banks (blocks), with 8 presets each. Selecting the right Block & preset# takes a max of 5 seconds.... and ready for the next song !!
A bunch of (selectable) parameters are saved with it : e.g. Intro, transpose, multipads etc.

I wrote down the block# and preset# to every separate song in our songbook.

This weekend we'll gig without Sd1, but with the TYROS. Wietse my singer will be surprised for sure..... he has not heard one single note from this Yammie

Roel

[This message has been edited by Roel (edited 03-25-2005).]

Interesting Roel, I just changed from the Tyros to SD1. We could have just traded keyboards!
All the response has been about how much better the SD1 sounds. Also, to my ear, the recordings I make each night seem to sound much better to me.
Sure, the Tyros is 100 times easier to get around, and the learning curve is tremendously high on the SD1. Also the Tyros is easier to navigate in real time, with the large lighted buttons and huge color screen.
Still, I do not regret at all making the change.
Positive aspects are the great keys, 76 of them, and the SOUND. Love the sound of the drums, bass, guitars, even piano. I like the harmonica, violin, and a couple of saxs.
I can't say whether I like the registration system better, but I find myself using it more on the SD1. It's pretty good.
As far as getting to the next song, which is the subject of this thread, the Tyros is easier, but I AM getting faster with the SD1 each time I use it.
When I get time, I plan to post new songs on my web site and get some feedback from all the guys hear. At least the ones who are interested.
DonM

DonM,
Perhaps we just got too used to the sounds and both needed a change
The SD1 absolutely still belongs to the best and keep in mind it was released about 5 years ago (!)

Navigating on the SD1 is complex and sometimes hard to understand. (I'm an IT-guy!)
It took me a couple of months before I found the use/meaning of 'block-registrations'.

What I do like on the Tyros:
One touch setting
Data entry wheel
Wonderfull display
Excellent strings, brass, epianos, guitars, organs, orchestral-drums...etc.
Noise-less harddisk
Panel layout (ergonomical)
No latency and polyphony-dropouts

"Fast action ready"

Well...I'm not into arrangers, but if I can put forth my two cents worth..here it is.
Our band plays regularly at locals pubs and bars. Generally a 3 1/2 to 4 hr. night. We try to keep the audience, and in particular, the dancers happy by not having that awkward moment between songs, so our nights usually consist of bam bam bam, song after song with the longest break between being maybe 5 seconds max. As for settings, I can usually set up my T3 in advance, although a few numbers require me to switch on the fly in the middle, but this isn't too often.
As to the next obvious question....why a T3? 'Cos it's dependable, has great versatility, & portability, and obviously, it's not an arranger, so as a keyboard player, I actually have to do the playing, instead of having a machine do it for me.

Uh Oh...I think I might have hit a nerve....I better go now...

------------------
...shboom

Nope, didn't hit a nerve. Some folks need others to help them make it through the night, then they split the money with them. Arranger entertainers don't split the proceeds. We just count the money, plus tips, then head to the next job. Yeah, we play too, just a different band behind us. And, the guys and gals behind arranger players really keep good time, don't bitch about the pay, always show up on time, and never, never get drunk on the job.

OK, the drummer drinks a bit, and the bass player is a druggie!

Cheers,

Gary

"Well...I'm not into arrangers"
Uh, Shboom, did you notice the title of the forum? That's like going to a NE Patriot game and saying you're not into football, and the players aren't really that good anyway. But at least you could watch the cheerleaders.
Actually, a lot of the musicians around here look down on arranger players too. They usually look down from the audience though, while they tell themselves that with the help of four or five guys, and by undercutting my price, they might steal my job.
Hate to tell you how many "band" jobs I turn down because I don't want to take a cut in pay. And very few weeks go by without a guitar player or bass player or drummer telling me "if you ever need some help, give me a call".
Mercy, I hope more of you guys don't start playing arrangers. That WOULD be competition.
On a related matter, I've found that most trained piano or synth guys CAN'T play an arranger in the manner it is supposed to be used. They can't seem to keep the left hand still enough to just play chords. Not that that's good or bad, it's just an observation. It's truly two totally different ways of making music. I can play anything with the right hand, but my left hand only knows chords. . . and pitch-bend wheels, and fill, break, intro, ending buttons.
Now let's talk about the guys who use sequences all night long instead of playing.

DonM

[This message has been edited by DonM (edited 03-25-2005).]

DonM...
I wasn't taking a shot at arrangers. Hell I've got associates that play them, and play them very well. My response was more towards Gary's question of time between songs, which I think I addressed.
In hindsight, maybe I should have just left my comments at that.

..Sorry...didn't mean to ruffle any feathers.
...Play On....

------------------
...shboom

my brother is a semi pro musician and producer. He uses the Triton Extreme and looks down his nose at arrangers. But when he plays my keyboard he keeeps coming away with great ideas to write songs....but he doesnt like arrangers...when he plays he struggles to keep time because the arranger is exact in its timing and is unforgiving to indisciplined musicians....so my brother does not like arrangers....he loves the new features on the motif ES and oaysis, you know...the features and "patches" that trigger sounds , rhythms and phrases that can even follow your chords....but he doesnt like arrangers.....

Pretty soon the only difference between arranger keyboards and ordinary workstations will be the name!

No ruffled feathers here, my friend. I just have a rare night off. My wife is home from the hospital and asleep. The kids are out of town, the basketball game is over, all the normal people are asleep.
As far as the time between songs, it totally depends on the venue. I play mostly high-end supper clubs and private parties. They expect me to interact and talk to the folks between songs. The majority of what I do is requests and I have to give them time to bring me those nice tips to play "their" song.
I like the idea of having the audience under my control. I can make them dance, or make them sit down, make them drink or even make them leave. Sometimes!
DonM

O.T.
I'm glad to hear Susan is home and hopefully doing okay.

------------------
...shboom

"for giging SD1 really sounds like a bar band to me, while Tyros sounds almost too perfect like CD..."

That's it! The SD1 sounds live. The Tyros sounds like a CD. Nothing wrong with either one, just a preference. Maybe I'll get tired of the SD1. Maybe by then, there will be an SD2. Maybe I'll finally get my hands on something else--GEM, Korg--who knows. For now I'm still loving the SD1. I still have much to learn about it.
DonM

If they wanna dance then they should better go into a disco!!!
I'm a musician/composer and so I'm the one who shows the people how to use my own music.
If they wanna use my music in a wrong way I will easily stop with making music. I'm not the jasper of the spectators - I'm the jasper for my own.

If they wanna dance then a CD player is good enough for them ... those hobos (I'm so sorry for my opinion).

The fact is that playing with some musicians in a band is so much more difficult like playing alone as an arranger. All the actors have to play the right tunes in the right moment (timing) and all members have to have the right feeling at the same time. It's an 'all night long thrill' for the whole band...
Arrangers only push some buttons and the music goes on. What's difficult on it? It needs the same ability like using a CD player (okay, that's a little bit kidding - I know).
Otherwise the entertainer stands alone in front of the spectators. He won't get any 'help' from a friendly face - a with-contending (is it the right term?) musician.
Also an arranger doesn't need to share his income with other musicians.

I know that the most of you arrangers/musicians have to live with the money from gigs. So it's normal to do NOT wish to share this money. Otherwise IMHO a full band has a very much higher value as an arranger only pushing his buttons (like a CD player) because they are more heads working on the evening's success.
I mean that the musicians had to be payed per head and not per band.

Well, while I'm reading this again I notice that I have to explain some points:
1. I'm actually not playing dance music
2. I don't need to live from music until today
3. I strongly believe that music is an art - not a joke

Back to topic: So it's no problem to make longer pauses between songs (because of the keyborder who is hectically searching through his sound libs). There's a singer who can speak to the crowd, there's a guitar player who can play some tunes for the impatients, there's a drummer who can thunder the hall, ... there's so much more which can eliminate the boring pauses between the action parts - espacially when you're playing in a band.
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Greetings from Frankfurt (Germany),
Sheriff ;-)

[This message has been edited by Sheriff (edited 03-27-2005).]

Context: I'm in a duo playing covers only, me+drummer, both sing, I'm using a PSR3000 as a midi file player and keyboard. I've another keyboard and separate bass pedals too. As the drummer practiced like crazy with e metronome and consequently can play strict tempo properly then I dont use the arranger function very often.

Heres my slant on some of the points..

Dead time: If people are dancing "freestyle" numbers then 5 seconds is dead, they'll all sit down. Any more than 1 second gap and I get anxious! You can say "if you want this go to a disco" but from our audience feedback they much prefer live performance (even if that is "Live over a midi file") to a DJ. Also so many DJ's like the sound of their own voices so much that you can't hear the song half the time anyway! At smoochie time you might get away with bigger gaps. If the audience isn't dancing at all then chat all you like just to maintain contact. We sometimes deliberatly use a big gap to force the audience to take a break. Incidentally we were once asked by the owner of an establishment to stop playing popular tunes so the dancefloor would clear and allow the staff to serve the main course of dinner!

For strict tempo / ballroom stuff gaps aren't such a problem as it is always a good idea to tell the crowd exactly which dance you'll be doing next.

Also, as a covers band, we have to give the audience what they want. It's their party, not ours.

As a classically trained pianist I couldn't play an arranger for quite some time. But now I've retrained my left hand and brain to think chordally, its not a problem.

I forgot - we pick tunes "on the fly"

I agree with most of what Mac says. And Sherrif, in this part of the U.S., Discotechs went away many years ago--THANK GOD! Yes, there are still a few locations where young people go to dance to wild music and flashing lights, but by and large, young people here do not dance at all. Their idea of a fun party is getting plastered on booze (and sometimes drugs), bitching about their jobs, eating fattening foods and driving home at a high rate of speed and fuel consumption in their gas-guzzlers.

I'll stick to performing for the older folks, those 55 and older. They love to party, have lots of fun, dance the night away, don't want the music to stop and keep the paychecks coming in on a regular basis. They like their songs back to back, no dead time, and as long as the music of playing they're happy and on the dance floor. And, none of my audiences would spend a red cent for a DJ, and most have never been to a Disco. I guess discos still survive in Europe, but I don't know why or how.

Cheers,

Gary

Going to discos or 'clubbing', which is the modern term, survives in Europe because it makes money. Why it doesn't in the U.S. (except in the 'hipper' areas of large cities) is anyone's guess. By the way, hordes of youngsters in Europe also consider a good time to consist of drinking their faces off - it's virtually a national problem in some countries.

I have an inkling that the demise in disco in the U.S. stems back to those times just post-disco in the late '70s when the whole disco movement was derided so heavily that it fell and has never fully recovered since.
For musicians, you'd think this wouldn't be a bad idea but in this neck of the woods the shift hasn't really swung back to live music. People have instead retreated into their basements with their 'home theatre' systems, sipping cappuccino; 'Cocooning' as the modern parlance goes. Add to this the rise of the so-called 'sports bars' with their 10-foot tv screens and free peanuts and you have, in a nutshell, if you'll pardon the pun, why too many people have never experienced the joy of spending an evening dancing the night away.

What a shame.

Gary! There are some questions about your topic in my mind...
Do you have the ability in your arranger kb to joggle through your parameter libs without changing any settings?
And then pushing one button to set all choices at once?
Do you have (use) an on-board sequencer with several song banks (something like the Kurzweil's song editor) keeping their own MIDI-settings for each song?

------------------
Greetings from Frankfurt (Germany),
Sheriff ;-)

...I forgot:
4. I'm a dreamer!!!


------------------
Greetings from Frankfurt (Germany),
Sheriff ;-)

Cheers,

Gary

[This message has been edited by travlin'easy (edited 03-30-2005).]