On the subject of playing a sax sound on the keyboard, in LIVE Performance, here's something else I've discovered:

No matter how realistic a sax sample (or any other non keyboard type instrument for that matters) sounds, the audience always KNOWS that it's not coming from a REAL saxophone played by a live saxophone player. A sax performance is really only FULLY appreciated if the audience actually SEE a guy PLAYING a 'real' saxophone. I've noticed that if I play a sax solo (on the keyboard) for much longer than 8 bars, the audience becomes bored and distracted, because their mind both expects & appreciates more, a 'keyboard type' sound to come out of the keyboard that you're playing. After 8 bars of hearing a sax played live on the keyboard, they begin to suspect the sax heard is merely a pre-recorded melody track coming from the keyboard and not me playing it live at all. Because of this, I typically keep non-keyboard type acoustic instrument melodies (sax, flute, harmonica, horns, guitars, etc) fairly short (under 8 bars) and more for instrumental relief from the standard keyboard type sounds. For longer solos and to show off my keyboard playing skills, I always choose a keyboard type sound: acoustic piano, elec piano, organ, accordion, or percusion vibes.

So the bottom line imho is that the sound and visual presence of a REAL Saxophonist (or other non keyboard type instrument) cannot be equaled when played on the keyboard.

Boo! don't stop playing your Sax. You're definitely in BIG demand by audiences that appreciate good acoustic music. I really look forward to jamming with you at our Synthzone Get Together in May.

Ok, I'm really interested in hearing from others on this topic now. - Scott

Agreed Scott! At the present time a Keyboard cannot achieve the sound of a real professional Sax and Saxaphone player. But I think (my opinion of course) that keyboards will cross that barrier and will someday be able to 'duplicate' all the intricacies and nuances (and authentic sound) produced by an actual Saxaphone. In the hands of an expertly skilled Keyboardist it will actually be "impossible" to tell the difference between a real Sax and the one played on a Keyboard. Only time will tell if I'm right or wrong. But I think it will happen one day.

Anyway, Mike "msutliff" thank you for providing an mp3 of the GEM WK8 Tenor Sax. It sounded pretty good to me. I did notice that when the high notes were played it sounded a little 'thin' to me but overall it was fairly decent. And thank you Mike for providing the Midi of Tenor Madness. I made a recording on my Tyros of the Midi you posted. Here is Tenor Madness a lá Tyros.

The first link is a high bit rate mp3 and the second link is an mp3PRO Version of the same recording. Here is:

Tenor Madness On Tyros

Tenor Madness On Tyros mp3PRO Version

And for those who want the real thing here is Tenor Madness by Dexter Gordon. The first link is a high bit encoded mp3 file (13.4 Mb's) and the second is an mp3PRO version (4.8 Mb's) Running time on Dexter Gordon's recording is 10:23.

Dexter Gordon Tenor Madness

Dexter Gordon Tenor Madness mp3PRO Version

Oh; "The Accordionist" 'Tommy', as to your following statement: "You know, I think Mike is probably a younger guy who shelled out some hard-earned cash and bought Tyros. He shows the unbridled enthusiasm that I did 15 years ago with my Ensoniq Mirage synthesizer." - FYI Tommy I'm almost old enough to be you Father. But yes, I did shell out some hard earned cash for the Tyros. And if you've noticed my posts over the last several months I haven't put the Tyros on a pedestal and bowed down in homage to it. Quite the contrary, I have repeatedly picked the Tyros apart needling it for its obvious shortcomings as Steve Deming of Yamaha can attest too. But one thing the Tyros does have is some great sounding instrument Voices apart from the flaws and shortcomings it has.

>>Tom Cavanaugh wrote: "None of us have to put up or shut up. If you haven't heard the Ketrons and the Gems and the Rolands and the Korgs and ALL the rest you are just running off at the mouth.

Most of us on the forum have stopped this "my board is better than your board" nonsense. Remember that in the end most all of the sounds are imitations of the real thing. Your tenor sax and my tenor sax are still instant coffee."

I agree Tom with your statement that yours and my tenor sax are still instant coffee compared to the real thing. But to find the Board that has the "Tasters Choice" of instant coffee is the dilemma. Btw, I have heard all the Saxes of the other Boards you mentioned Tom and they don't have anything on the Tyros' Saxes if you ask me. They all miss the mark including the Tyros of course. But I think the Tyros holds its own against the lot of them IMO.

As to "my board is better than yours" mentality I suppose I do think the Tyros has exceptional sounds but as I've stated above to Tommy I have not put the Tyros on any pedestal per say, just the opposite in fact if you've followed my posts since I've purchased my Tyros. I have openly said that there are many faults on the Tyros but I have also said there are many nice features too, including the sounds. I am praying for the day when the Big Three, GEM, Ketron, or Casio come out with a board that will blow everything else out of the water including the Tyros or Pa1X PRO. And I am relishing the day when your's and my Saxes on our Keyboards will sound like the real thing. Although I think the Tyros' Sweet! Soprano Sax has almost already arrived IYAM.

Best regards,
Mike

I agree with much that was already said on this topic. Scott is right about playing the sax on a keyboard to an audience.... Sax is one of the hardest instruments on a keyboard to play... It's the same way with the guitars. There are just so many technics that are used when playing the actual instrument, that it's almost impossible to duplicate this in real time. I've heard some great sax solos on midis, but I often find that the majority of these sax solos weren't recorded in realtime, but rather step recording was used... It's just a hard instrument to play and play well on the keys. We can run all the riffs we want and bend all the notes we want, but a sax solo done on a keyboard will ALWAYS sound like a keyboard.. I have yet to hear a sax recording done in realtime that completely blew me away and made me think twice. However I have heard some guitar solos that dropped my jaw that were done on keyboards.
Boo, keep playing that sax man! No matter how hard I or anyone else here tries, we will never be able to produce a sax solo any where near the quaility of what you can do on the actual instrument.....

Squeak

IMO not much comparison the Tyros sax sounds better than the other but also no comparison between the Tyros and the real deal of Dexter Gordon.

I too have heard some guitar solos on keyboard that were outstanding and very believable, especially one like distoreted guitars etc. acoustics are a bit tougher I think.
Terry

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jam on,
Terry http://imjazzed.homestead.com/Index.html

My Recommendation, if an impressive saxophone performance is desired, just 'learn how' to play the REAL thing. In just a few short years, you might sound half way decent. In fact, adding your playing an acoustic instrument along with your arranger keyboard act can give your act that added edge. Boo, you giving sax lessons? - Scott

Hey Mike,

Thanks for posting a Tyros version of Tenor Madness. Sounds real good.

But thanks even more for posting Dexter Gordon's version of that song. Man, they sure were kickin' it! No doubt about it, you can't beat the real thing.

mike

Here is my input on this:

1) I liked the SAX presented by keyplayer. But because it is a light sax that is usually used in easy listening music. It has the breath background which I like as well.

2) When I am playing live, I avoid the SAX sound for exactly the reason scott shared. For some reason, people are willing to listen to a flute or violin or strings but not SAX. And if I do, they always come and determine that it is fake regardless of how trained they are not. (do I type like Yoda?)

On my web site I played the Psr 2k's
"Growl Sax" solo on my Demo song
"Just A Gigilo" ...
although not a "real sax"...I thought It sounds pretty decent...for a KB Sax...

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www.donnypesce.com

Tenor, sweet tenor and growl are my favorites on the Yamahas and I use them almost as much as the pianos, guitars and strings. But, playing technique is just as important as the voice.

Ok...so it is a replication...and as Scott has said, when you are on stage as a single and playing a variety of voices, the thrill and appreciation for a seeing and relating to a real sax player is not there....but if you want to hear a real pro on an arranger sax...check out Don Mason's work.

His guitar and sax playing techniques replicate the real thing as well as any player I have ever heard and, to me, show how realistic the results can be in the country field.

Eddie

Hi Donny,

nice work on the growl Sax.
It is my favorite on the Yammi too.
The great thing about the yammies Growl is, that it doesn't growl all the time as it does in some other keyboards.
It only growls when you hit the key harder.

Eric