I found some interesting styles made by LIONSTRACS MS X76. What you thing on them. With my keybord they are sound fantastic.
I download them from their dowload area (for arranger)
but also they have demo.
http://www.lionstracs.com/site/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=37&catid=37&Itemid=59

Hello Magica Alfa
Click on downloads and also download shop. http://www.wersi.co.at/Downloads/
In case you’re wondering, Wersi was the first manufacture to introduce computer keyboard/organ instruments in 2000, and they have been upgraded over time. (And yes they can use VST instruments)
To see how they have developed over the years, you can download a sample magazine from here. http://www.worldofoas.co.uk/sample.htm
BTW. If you purchased one of the original versions, it can be easily upgraded to the very latest version.
Enjoy.

Bill

I've just listened to all the latest style demos dated 31.05.06 and I still see that they are very badly done. They still sound like poorly programmed midi styles that you would expect to find on a very low end Casio or Yamaha PSR (come to think the latter sound better).
Yes I did have the Mediastation and everyone knows on here I hated it because it was faulty, but my opinions on the sounds and styles have nothing to do with that fact, I am simply basing my opinion on what I hear from the downloads today.
Also the demonstrator who seems to always play badly with organ sounds says piano and 15 seconds later he stumbles across the piano sound - great for live use this 15 seconds to pick and swap a sound, NOT. He is setting a very bad example when demonstrating, I can't see the reasoning behind Lionstracs using him all the time when he doesn't seem to know his way around this instrument.
The best demos they had was Andy Spiller from the UK playing on 2 videos with piano sounds.
Well that's my view let's see what others think

DEAR,

If you are having so big problem you must first have base knowledge on LINUX. On start I had also problems But then comes up new things. You must first know the think. Also when you build computer you had problems. But When you have all in hand is simply the best as LIONSTRACS MS x76 (for me) I'm playing with it on performance. I can tell you that it sounds fantastic. Also I had no problem with loading Big PIANO NI KONTAKT is fine tool. You can put inside piano of 800 MB with no problems of loading. When you push key is rights tone played. But you must understand system. In this moment is possible to put inside 4 GB RAM This is enough for all your playing all night long. Also keyboard is developing. Every day new things on web. (LIONSTRACS & LINUX) This is full functionality.


I thing CRAIGH you must check once more LIONSTRACS MEDIASTATION X76 but FULL VERSION WITH COMLETE NEW SOUNDS

Abacus BILL

SORRY but WERSI: You can check on:
http://www.mercy-no-wersi.com/


I'm glade that I find so good and reliable thing.

LIONSTRACS X76 is much better then standard keyboards without possibility to upgrade on what you want.

Check out Lionstracs again lmao no thanks.
If and when they ever come up to the quality that Korg, Yamaha, Roland, Ketron, Wersi and even Casio produce I'll give them a 2nd look, in the meantime Dom can sell these to whoever is daft enough to buy an unfinished pre-production product.

But system is better then Korg, Yamaha, Roland, Ketron, Wersi you must only find in keyboard. I'll show you things I made and is LIVE PLAYING not something else
http://www.sraka.com/holliday%2Dband/mp3/Holliday%20band%20-1-%20Ima%20nešto%20(live).mp3

sorry is not your language but play life in trio not all five other things are made with LIONSTRACS life instruments bass and drums in arranger)

This is true. You must trie to find sounds. Sounds are all over the world.


My name is ZMAGO.

Thanks for sharing your song which sounds OK.
The style used and sounds are certainly not up to the likes of Tyros 2 with the Super Articulation, nor do they sound as good as what Korg and Roland churn out. As for it being better than any other arranger that's your opinion m8, we all think our arrangers are better than anyone elses on here lol. As long as you like what you've purchased and it enables you to make music on it then that's all what matters. Who cares what manufacturers logo is on it. My experience with Lionstracs are well in the past.

While your demo was nice, I was totally unimpressed by the sounds of this keyboard I'm with Craig, still a looooooooooong way to go here for Liontracks.IMO

Terry

Well, the original style demo's sound very very poor. Craig is right in his comments.
The styles sound 'unstable', instruments unbalanced and wrong choosen.

Lionstracs : Please redo your homework so we can expect you to be at an acceptable keyboard engineering/technology level in .... let's say 5 years ?


[This message has been edited by kla4 (edited 05-31-2006).]

Thank Craig_UK:
Sounds are LIVE sounds. not sounds from keyb. aranger. But they are made as loops. You can check by your self.
Bass is virtual bassist from steinberg. Check once more.
Piano and ground from NI Kontakt. and
now your system stop with TYROS. Listen to song carefully. This is future of arranger.

Realy problem is that LOGO if that made by YAMAHA, ROLAND, KORG than is super. Realy all this keyboards are fine but closed. You are not have oportunity to be free.

Would you refuse to look at a car, just because problems occurred on a couple out of thousands?
If Lionstracs were to demonstrate in the UK, or better still attend one of the many Festivals, (Where we get World Premiers and Previews of Keyboards) I would certainly try them out, unfortunately at present I can only go by the demos, and reviews of other people that have or have had them, which why in a previous post I said that I was looking forward to your comments on the Mediastation.
Look forward to further updates, as you get more used to the instrument.

Bill

Hi BILL

I don't know what you are having there. Here in Slovenia we are having two dealers.

May be is that opportunity for you to start job there or you will rather wait for somebody else. This is new technology.

Somebody must start.

Because you are smart, you can help me also. I want only that my keyboard sounds better then rest. And I need only one keyboard not two there to make all good.

You have to KNOW the operating system (Linux) before your can play the instrument!!!
I don't even know what OS my Yamaha and Roland keyboards use. (They are proprietory, I assume).
Starkeeper

You can us MS as ordinary keyboard. But you can also use VST. In start all for you is as closed system. But if you want to have more you pick up from web and you can play as new instrument. In one instrument you are having more. Korg, Yamaha, or what you want. And you don’t need to know LINUX.

But if it is something serious you can contact LIONSTRACS and they can help you.
I never had problem with them.

[This message has been edited by Magica Alfa (edited 05-31-2006).]

For the price of the Mediastation you are better off getting a decent weighted master keyboard and then some sort of PC/Mac or possibly a laptop with fast processor, memory, hard drive etc and using the VST plugins and software on that midied to the master keyboard. The price would be roughly the same, a PC and Mac could run more VST programs as the Mediastation does not run every VST out there, I think it depends on Linux again. A computer would probably be more reliable as well.
I have loads of VST's and only 1 worked in a fashion with the Mediastation with a little help from Dom setting it up which was quite hard for both of us. Having seen the B3 organ plugin I think it was called on both the Wersi and Mediastation, Wersi was by far easier to operate.
It would be nice if some of the bigger manufacturers jumped on the VST/plugin bandwagon though, this seems the way to go for the future.

Here is PC inside. You can every time change PC. That is not a problem. You can load in Mediastation X76 ALL VST over the world. It depends on your demands. I had no problem with VST ever. B4 works mega. Better than on my good sound cards of computer. (I’m having severally - rate 192 bit)

You are wrights. One of bigger must start to work in this way. But this keyboard will cost double.
Please capture your video and send me some photos

"This is new technology"... OK, but please tell me why none of the 'open system' manufacturers was able to show a decent/impressing demo?..... even after more than 5 years of developing.

Magica Alfa, you seem to be saying brands like Roland, Yamaha etc. do not offer 'freedom' in using the instuments.

Please explain to us what extra 'freedom' you need on top of what e.g. a Tyros2 offers?
Tyros2:
Lots of fantastic internal styles,
B3 sounds including great rotary-speaker sim.
Very very nice sounds such as Super Articulation.
Multitrack recording,
Proprietory OS (fast, robust, compact)
Sampling
etc...... All without (expensive) VST/plugins.

KLA4 WROTE:
This is new technology"... OK, but please tell me why none of the 'open system' manufacturers was able to show a decent/impressing demo?..... even after more than 5 years of developing.


Impressive demos: You can create by your self. If you known to do. Otherwise I’m impressed with demos. Quality of sound is good. But this is not reality. You must tried keyboard and than you will have your state. But you also need time to find all possibilities. (Even when you will know all of them will come new on web)


KLA4 WROTE:

Magica Alfa, you seem to be saying brands like Roland, Yamaha etc. do not offer 'freedom' in using the instuments.
Please explain to us what extra 'freedom' you need on top of what e.g. a Tyros2 offers?
Tyros2:
Lots of fantastic internal styles,
B3 sounds including great rotary-speaker sim.
Very very nice sounds such as Super Articulation.
Multitrack recording,
Proprietory OS (fast, robust, compact)
Sampling
etc...... All without (expensive) VST/plugins.

Yes really nice.
But also internal is closed. This is so closed that you are having in this moment only this keyboard. In future you need new more expensive than VST and new GIGA sound. But they will in future be greater and better.

Ok, but what I try to say is :
EVERY brand (e.g. Ketron, Solton, Gem, Roland, Yamaha etc) has good quality demo-pieces to show potentials of equipment.
Wersi & Lionstracs have not !

In fact they are a couple of years behind compared to other music brands (in soundquality and styles)

The open systems are built upon an ordinary PC concept, right ?
Be honest and tell me how many years are PC's 'up to date' nowaday? I'm computing since the eighties and learned every three years an upgrade was needed because of new developments in hardware and more demanding software.
So when people say "These open systems allow you to keep the hardware forever and with only new software users stay uptodate! ", I only can smile and think 'come on, wake up !'

In my view serious/realistic thinking musicians don't purchase these PC based stuff, because they are not interested in 'building' a keyboard. They want reliable/solid machines that sound great.

Those who do purchase must have lots of money, feel 'pioneers' and try to convince 'ordinary' musicians they are a kind of old-fashioned.

Magica Alfa your song sounds OK, but how many days took it to find the right settings?

While using a normal modern keyboard it's a matter of minutes.

I'm lurker at this forum for ages and read many discussions with- and about Lionstracs.
Lionstracs showed a nasty attitude on top of the fact that the product itself is extremely poor IN MY VIEW !

Thanks for your replays

First: In last two years computer fast development mostly stops. But this cause that we are having today enough space to develop things in keyboards in this way.
These are reliable things. Ok somebody wants close and good system but what hapend: e.g. you are having in on keyboard in top range:
128Mb ROM only you must change this keyboard every two years because when come out new you old is not good. Problem is in us keyboard players we want every time something new.

With this thing you can open your mind every day and this is nothing for you. First you try TRIAL if you want than you buy.

Maybe you will listen to this:
http://www.lionstracs.com/demo/sounds/orchestrademo.mp3

This is official side. For me it is great sound. I don’t know what you mean with poor picture. I’m having this thing not long time and I can tell you that is better than all my old keyboards.

I started with HAM. B3 and ROLAND Juno 6. I had ELKA before. I’m with computer from 1982. I can tell you first things were problematic. I find a lot good thing on.
Development of computer gave us that we are having this forum here today.
This will be also keyboards future.

MagicAlfa,

Everyone (almost everyone) on this board has had a very open mind regarding the Lionstracs product and concept. We have all watched it develop and have asked very specific questions regarding it's practicality and usage during a live performance. Combined with the bad experiences of a few of our members, the reviews just do not give us the confidence in this product in both quality and sound worthiness. Perhaps the main issue is with reliability.

When you are on stage entertaining an audience, you must have a non-stop, no-nonsense keyboard at your fingertips allowing you to concentrate on the show, not on the mechanics of performing. The experience between keyboard and performer must be seamless on stage. This is where Roland, Korg, Yamaha, and others really excel. They have mastered the ergonomics of the performer.

From the demo's I've seen and user reports, Lionstracs operation seems much more convoluted and disjointed performing on stage.

Open source is at home to prepare sounds. You can select only one tip and works. You are having possibility with touch screen or with key. (Your choice)

If you are having time you can come on first performance to me and you will see that this is possible. One touches all works without problem.

I need only collogues who are having experience to help me also. I want only good keyboard.
Once more thanks all for replay on this forum. I thing is really interesting to meet you and listen your side of stories.

.

[This message has been edited by LIONSTRACS (edited 04-11-2007).]

Hello Domenik
Nice to know you still keeping in touch, I thought you might have left for good.
The demo itself shows what can be achieved with an open type keyboard, and I would suggest that you go through some of the other older demos on your site and clear them out, as they do not show off the Mediastation to its full potential.
As far as I am aware you still do not have a presence in the UK, and as yet never featured at any of the Festivals, which I think would benefit you, by allowing people to compare your product with others, and thus see and hear the benefits of an open keyboard, I know Wersi always go down well at the Festivals, and that is why I play one of their OAS instruments. (I have previously used both Hardware and Software based systems)
I hope you consider some of the above, and continue to develop the Mediastation.
Regards

Bill

Thanks that to all.
I know what I'm having and I can tell that this is good thing.

If it is somebody who are having same keyboard or may be new concept of NI KONTAK or some instructions please tell me.

I started bad posting lmao, I posted the answers to what people were asking in their questions to me. I have also said that you were great in giving me a full refund as well on numerous occasions, although you did originally want me to pay for the return postage at my own expense which I thought was disgusting at the time.
You didn't mention on your post above that you put the wrong PSU in my Mediastation either. You told me that what you put inside was not correct for the UK voltage. The USB ports also didn't work along with loads of other faults like the main jack outputs so I think there was far more to it than some faulty flash dimm.
Without going into any more discussions you simply sold me a bag of tripe that wasn't even ready to be marketed. It was like using me as some sort of guinea pig.
Anyway Dom it's nice to see that you have sold more Mediastations since my postings, no doubt to Lebanon again.

Hello All
Reading some of the posts, I think some people misunderstand what an open keyboard is about, and hopefully my explanation will make it clearer.
In its basic form it is a keyboard that is not tied to any one manufacture, and allows the user to use whatever type of sounds or instruments they require.
Previously this could only be achieved using a fixed computer in a studio, using various different samples and Virtual instruments, (VST) with the increase in computing power this can now also be done live, by using a laptop.
The downside to this is the fact that it takes a lot to set up, and has a very steep learning curve, which of course puts most people off.
The Hardware Arranger however is a lot easier to set up, with a much easier learning curve.
The downside to this is the fact that it has to use what the manufacture makes for it, or connect to external modules or a computer, to get something different.
The most versatile electronic box today, (And has been for some time) is the computer, which because of its modular design means that any software that is released can be used on it.
The downside? Is that as software gets more sophisticated so does the computer hardware that is required to run it, however, due to the modular construction, you only need to upgrade the parts that are required to run the new software, and not have to change the whole computer.
The open keyboard combines the advantages of both computer and hardware arranger in one box, so that it can be played straight out of the box, just like any other arranger keyboard.
To make this even easier the manufactures include there own software sounds and styles etc, so that you do not have to start buying other software sounds/instruments straight away. Whether you like the sounds or not is entirely personal, just like some people prefer Yamaha, others prefer Roland etc.
Once you have the open keyboard however, you can then start adding what ever you want, rather having what the manufacture says you should have. This gives you the advantage that you can just upgrade the software and hardware as required, without having to trade in your old instrument, which has the advantage of working out a lot cheaper as well.
I hope the above has cleared a few points up, and has allowed a better understanding.
Below I have included some links to sites, so that you can see what third party sounds and instruments are available for use on an open keyboard.
The most common samples are produced for Akai samplers, the S1000 -3000 series being the most popular, (Akai samplers first came to market in the late eighties) in recent years with more advanced computers, Giga samples have come to the fore, and so if you follow the link below, and select the above formats you will see what sounds are available, many with mp3 demos. http://www.timespace.com/index1.asp?ID=prosamples
As far as instruments go, here are 4 links to have a look at.
Hammond sound http://www.native-instruments.com/index.php?id=b4ii_us
Piano sound http://www.steinberg.de/151_1.html
Orchestra sound http://www.steinberg.de/667+M52087573ab0.html
Guitar http://www.soundsonline.com/sophtml/details.phtml?sku=BS-388
And for a compilation of sounds http://www.soundsonline.com/sophtml/details.phtml?sku=EW-164

Enjoy.

Bill

Dominick,

Thanks for taking the time to post an update for the MS. It's very helpful to have insight into the progress of the product and the challenges you face. It's unfortunate a few bad experiences turn into ugly dialog, but I appreciate having your participation here and giving us frequent status updates. We are all very curious about your product and wish you well in it's success. Keep the information coming....

Al,

Hi domenik
I m happy that you come back here.
I really want to have with you a private discussion about some projects
Is it possible?

Dan from France

Hi all,

First thanks for your replays.

I see that something is change from start of discussion. I can see that LIONSTRACS MEDIASTATION X76 is interesting thing.

If will be more people like Domenik will be more opportunity to have new approach.

Thanks abacus for understanding me and what I want to tell you, but may be I did not explained you this very well.

Craig_UK thanks to giving me replays back.
But I think you don’t know where SLOVENIA is. We are in EU and not so far from you.

I wish LIONSTRACS that will be no.1 in the world and that they will have all over the world good and reliable distributors with will to sell good product and know to handle with it.

Hi Magica, Ljubljana is a very pretty place and I'm sure it was the capital of Slovenia last time I visited!
Anyway enough from me replying to Mediastation postings, my fingers are starting to ache lol

the problem Dom is that all you have said about the mediastation works in theory but the reality of the product is not that attractive. I wish yoiu wel with the instrument an really want you to succeed. However i have yet to hear a great demo from the keyboard in aranger mode. The styles are poor. The sounds i am sorry to say are also poor.

An open system is an atractive proposition but the reality is that all the best soiunds in a keyboard from differnt manucaturers wont necessarily sound good together and the mediastaion is a prime example of that. In the demo you posted of work you did yourself and the midi styles that were done , the imbalance of the arranger sounds were obvious and it is clear that all the instruments needed to be eq'd to balance and work with each other as they interact. Thats precisely the problem with an open system ! Thats why even some of the cheaper closed models like Casio can sound better than a £3000 Mediastation because the manufactuerer has the control over the product to make sure that the sounds complement each other and that all the sounds coming through one sound system blend and the right sounds cut through the mix accordingly . That skill takes experience and a fair deal of sound synthesis knowhow. Thats part of the reason why it will be very hard to tempt people away from the proprietory based systems because whatever limitations the manaufacturer has placed within the instrument they make up for it with a great sounding instrument and thats all a good musician really wants. Thats why guitarist still love a guitar sound and why pianists still long for a realistic piano. Arrangers only need flexibility in terms of the style accompaniments that we use and the ease of use of the instrument. They can be purchased openly or converted and tweaked from any other manufacturer. Thats probably the main reason i believe that your product will struggle if you are intending to compete in the aranger market. How many times in your post have you said that the mediastation to sound good needs the user to understand the lynux system ? What does that tell you as a businessman about the greatest obstacle to the success of the instrument !!! Listen mate roland could not shift the G70 because the user had to fidle with the instrument too much to make it sound decent and they had a great loyal customer base to assist them. What makes you think you can in over new customers with the same faulty proposition.

arranger players want all the hard work done for them. the selection of sounds, the balancing of sounds, good choice of styles etc. We just want to play and make great music. Manfacturers like Korg, roland and Yamaha understand that. You are promoting the mediastaion on its unique selling point of being an open system. Have you asked the people on this board if that means anything at all to them ? I think you might be surprised by the answer.

I am not trying to pull your product down Dom i am simply trying to help you understan the market you are trying (very hard) to penetrate

Best wishes

Worth

My experience is different.

I had keyboard for 14 days and I played with the styles from my previous keyboard. This was GENESYS PRO. I had: KORG PA80, ROLAND G800, GEM SK760, KORG TRITON STUDIO 76, ROLAND XP80 PEAVEY DPM3 etc.

I was satisfied with all of them, but here I’m having freedom. This means me a lot. My audience wants every day more. Before we had enough to play with simple arranger, now if you play on toy you will not have them. Also you must be more than musician. This is reality.

Yes true is that you are playing with balanced keyboard on stage. Also one hit for next song. This is important. And on end this keyboard is having all in one hit. (One hit plays arranger, next hit play midi, next hit play mp3 of course with all new sounds every time.) This is freedom.

As abacus write may be are on demo side of LIONSTRACS old mp3s with arranger. On my keyboard are balanced.

Styles sounds better more realistic and had more power than other keyboards.

This are not keyboards for beginners, but on end they are play with one tip as for beginners. You can look on manual on web. I buy this thing because of easy manual and help on desk top. You must only press button help and all is possible to see on screen. (Every button)

Any way, I thing LIONSTRACS can learn something from this forum. I’m, for sure.

so where are the good demos with the balanced sounds and excellent styles ? Not midi files done by someone else.If you want to sell the instrument then sell it with sound not words.Its no good emphasising what the keyboard is capable of and its limitless expandability if it doesnt do the basic things right. I know you are passionate about the instrument but you really need to tune in to what your prospective customers are saying. £3000 is a lot to invest in an instrument that has the capability of sounding great but doesnt quite sound that great just at the moment.It doesnt matter if you think it sounds awesome if the potential buyers here on the forum do not. You cant convince them that their ears are faulty because it sounds great to you.I think that if you listened to some of the feedback on this forum and tiook them to redesign the mediastation in a product that did what it was promoted to do , you would have the major manufacturers really worried .

Hi, I´m a Lionstracs Mediastation MS76 user at some mounths. My experience with it is very nice. I use more the arranger mode. I can do some thing´s impossible in other Keybords. Some of my styles have maked with pure audio in drum´s ( MP3, not GM ) and giga sound´s acompainment in the same style. I can play a style completly independent from any GM or midi sound. In this case is my self style ( Not any company sound mark attached ). I recommend this Keyboard to people that want to have more dependence from the "Packed sound" in the ROM off tradicional Keyboard´s. Thanks to all !!

And I think that is the power of the mediastation and other open source keyboards.
It is for those who want and need tools that would help them be creative and have their own distinct sound.
It is not for the lazy musician and or closed minded people. The possibilities are plentiful with such a keyboard like the mediastation.

The demos do not do it justice. What they need to do is get a really good gigging musician, spend some time explaining to them the workings of the mediastation and have them create a demo for arranger players.

Maybe that would silence the negative talkers. But I would caution, an online demo should never be the deciding factor for a keyboard buyer regardless as to how good or bad the demos are. Nothing beats live in person interaction with a keyboard.

Another thing mediastation may want to consider is to start marketing the keyboard to pro creative musicians. The gigging musician, workstation users and producers and studio people. Ones with an open mind would see that the mediastation is more than an arranger or a romplayer it is a complete production and performance keyboard.

To the Genesys, Dom has had what he calls good musicians demoing the Mediastation and the live recordings are already there for downloading. There's the guy who plays nothing but organ sounds all the time and looks totally uninterested in what he is performing, then there's the new older bloke freaking out with the piano sounds trying his hardest to accompany some guy whose singing leaves much to be desired.
This is Mediastations way of promoting their product.
Now on the other hand there's the UK guy who plays on 2 demos if they are still available who actually shows you what can be achieved with a good sounding piano, I think it was the giga one.
People keep stating that the Mediastation is great for VST and Giga sounds which is true. However decent Giga libraries and VST's cost loads of money. Just how many people want to spend £3000 on the Mediastation then have to fork out loads more for quality sounds?
The internal styles are bad at the moment, the GM sounds are bad, the synth engine has some very good sounds, Giga piano was OK, B3 was very good and I think Dom may be putting B4 with it now, but other than that you've either got to buy Giga's and VST's or stick to the few free ones that work with Linux. Half of the free stuff I got with my Mediastation were demo versions or the typical free plugins anyone can download off the net.
It's like having a good master keyboard with a few internal sound modules linked to it and then there's the novel twin playback facility for wannabe DJ's.

Dear MR. CRAIG:

1: I Know some studio´s that have Samples and don´t have Mediastation.
2: I Know some keyboard´s player´s that don´t have Samples
3: I Know some alives player´s that have MS76 and samples too.

Personally I think the principal question is the love by the JOB that we are doing. If the player just wan´t to win money and don´t have love the Profission, it´s very hard to see the third option. But when we love really play the keyboard workstation machine, some times it´s the love to the Job that speak more high than simple play a instrument. In this case when the player´s by a keyboard is not just to show to friend´s, it´s the love by job.

Anyway you can by GIGA libraries and sound's at www.bestservice.de in Europe.

About the internal styles, at the moment, do you want to try internal audio styles ? It´s one of many news this year. Your MS76 that you send back to Lionstracs last year don´t have this styles and features. There are maked this year. Sow I can sure to you that in "The Moment" the styles don´t are the sames from last year. I can talk by myself experience. I Have one MS76. The time advance and the features too. Is not correct speak about the "Last Year" version. It´s not the current version.

Anyway, thanks to all.
Best Regard´s

Filipe Tomás
Native Language - Portuguese

Filipe , Dom and Liontracs and everyone else that is involved in this thread. Talk is cheap ! I dont like being called lazy. I work a 60 hour week. I am not a gigging musician i play PURELY FOR THE LOVE. I love playing and creating but not sound engineering !!! The vast majority of people that play arranger keyboards love playing !! Thats why they tend to buy styles rather than make them, thats why the buy keyboards where all the sound engineering has been done for them, Does anyone who works for Liontracs understand anything about MARKETING.

1st lesson

Dont call your prospective customers lazy. It pisses them off in a big way

2nd lesson

Listen to yopur customers !! Dont tell them what you want to give them , find out what they want from you !!

3rd lesson

Never pass of a prototype model to a customer that knows all you other customers and then critiscise them for sharing their purchasing experience with you.

Last lesson

Let the product sell itself !! Yamaha , Korg Roland etc dont send product managers on a board like this to brow beat people into likeing their product. Their products sound good out of the box ( with the one blip for Roland ) and the limitless expandability and creativity is INSPIRED IN THE CUSTOMER through the excellence of the product

NOT THE OTHGER WAY ROUND !!!!!


lESSON OVER.

"Never pass of a prototype model to a customer that knows all you other customers and then critiscise them for sharing their purchasing experience with you."

Should be "pass off" and " all your other"

Got me so worked up i cant even write english properly

I´m not a manager, i´m a MS76 user, Ketron User, Alesis user, Korg user and Roland user. My last post resumes that there are people that don´t have problem´s to by keyboard´s and respective acessories ( Sound´s from samples companies ) if can be Loaded by the istrument. Some times it´s by love to play the instrument with more features. I never tell that people that don´t have mediastation don´t love the job. Is Not this. It´s the Craig question " And people want to spend money with sound´s or sample ? " Yes I believe that somes by sound´s to charge in the keyboard´s.

The 3 examples before are 3 situation, not lessons.

Best regard´s

Filipe I knew you quite well when we used to talk on Yahoo last year. If I remember correctly were you the bloke with a woman singer who did some good songs on your web site but not with the Mediastation at the time?
Please post some of your MP3's done on the Mediastation, I know you are more than capable of doing this. You sent me a style ages ago using giga sounds or some audio, but to be honest I still thought it was poor.
The new styles posted late May 2006 on Doms site still do not show any improvement in sound quality comparing them to what I heard almost a year after I purchased mine. I appreciate all of the updates since I got my refund, but if the updates have made these great improvements you users keep stating then for heavens sake please post some demos as Dom doesn't seem to care about any form of quality or marketing on his site.
Come on Filipe post something to show me and others that the Mediastation is a contender in todays tough market, now's your chance, the balls in your court.
I hope that whatever I post helps Dom to sell some as he mentioned previously, he did promise me my agents cut of 20% hehe

Just a Post Script to my post:
I do not work for mediastation.

In fact, as I stated, they really need someone to demo the product properly.
Taking in to account that arranger style playing is just one selling point for this board.

Also, they need to correct all the misinformation that has been posted in this thread that a closed system is better than an open system and that the VSTs do not work well with the mediastation. They also need to set the record straight as to the assumption that a member of this forum received a prototype keyboard.

Regarding my use of the word lazy, I did not want to offend any one, but being involved with music is a lot of work. There is no easy road; regardless of what the PSRs/Tyros, G70s, PA1xs try to make us believe.

I suppose if one is just playing at home for his or her enjoyment (there is nothing wrong with that), a Casio, Tyros 2 and the likes would suffice.

But for the musician who is gigging for a living, preparation for a gig is expected. Creating styles, tweaking sounds and presets and setting up registrations is part of the game and part of the fun.


Most professional musicians do not expect the keyboard to be just perfect for everyone because we realize that every musician has their individuality. The keyboard is there to give you all the tools to express your individuality with styles, sounds and the like.


When one is getting a high-end keyboard for gigging, a certain amount of preparation and tweaking should be expected. That is just the nature of electronic instruments. If you want to just play get a piano, or if you want to sound like a DJ or a Karaoke machine, then get a Casio or PSR/Tyros 2.

But if you are gigging and want to stay in the music business and want to have an identity as a performer, then you should be prepared to work, tweak and create.

Ok CRAIG, let-me prepair to record a audio style to post. Very soon I post it.
Best regard´s

To the Genesys puts:
if you want to sound like a DJ or a Karaoke machine, then get a Casio or PSR/Tyros 2.
But if you are gigging and want to stay in the music business and want to have an identity as a performer, then you should be prepared to work, tweak and create.

I think you'll get some strong comments back from that statement.
Loads of us on here regardless what type of arrangers we have always tweak our instruments and create our own styles and sounds instead of using the presets. As for sounding like a DJ or Karaoke machine, that comment is pure c**p, unless you just shove a disk in and let it play itself.
Many on SZ have also been in the business for years and even have their own music shops or teach music etc so we already have established identities and certainly put the man hours in when it comes to work.
By the way, what keyboard(s) do you have. With Genesys I'm assuming it's the one by Gem?

i have no quarrel with you filiper. I never said you were a manager for MS but i am surprised that you are replying to a comment about how the company markets its product. If that has nothing to do with you i dont understand why you are answering ?

The point i am making is that you and i others are making a serious mistake in regards to your assumptions about the differences between home keyboard players, and gigging musicians. Their desires from a keyboard in many respects are exactly the same. Tell me if you think this assumption of mine is wrong:

Most pro players and most amateur players want to get the best sound from their instruments in the simplest way... true or not true ?

Look at the makeup of this board which has both pro players and amateurs and tell me what is significantly different about the instruments that they play ?

This goes for Dom too, think real hard and you will find that both the pros and the amateurs are playing Yamahas (mostly Tyros 1, 2 or psr300's), or Korgs (pa1x p50's i30's) or Roland G70's (once they have tweaked the hell outta them ...just smile neilsh!). Why do you think that even with the Merdiastation having been around at least 18 months, dozens of its "great" demos and lots of postings on hear about it that only a few people have bought one.....

Go on think real hard.....

You see if you cant market to the amateurs and pros on here...who the hell are you going to market too ??????????

I am done with this.

Hello Magica Alfa,
Congratulations on the new keyboard! It is great to hear how well it is working for you. I am also a Mediastation owner as I have the X-88 Pro version. I have been very pleased with its performance as well. When I first researched Lionstracs and the mediastation I found there was not a lot of objective 3rd party opinions available. Now that there are a few more of actual Mediastation owners posting then perhaps it will be easier for people to get the info they need. Please keep posting I look forward to hearing more about your experiences with your keyboard.

Abacus I have always found your posts very knowledgable and informative especially about wersi. I researched them as well and while I decided on the Lionstracs for myself, I sincerely want all companies that are promoting an open keyboard system based on computers and virtual instruments to succeed. As this can only be good for the consumer. I especially appreciated your explaination of the open keyboard. Keep on giving the good info!

To the Genesys - I fully agree with what you said "And I think that is the power of the mediastation and other open source keyboards.
It is for those who want and need tools that would help them be creative and have their own distinct sound."

No one keyboard suits everyone! For someone who is wanting to use a keyboard at home, playing for their own enjoyment, then the Mediastation may not be what they are looking for. There are less expensive and more simple options that may serve them well.

But for the professional or gigging Musician who wants the very best tools to work with, Lionstracs Mediastation becomes a very exciting option for them!

Filipe, You have were one of the first ones to post info on the Mediastation. Thanks and I look forward to you posting an mp3.

I have began some observations that I have made of my keyboard under another thread. http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/Forum37/HTML/013336.html

Richard Shiflet

Hello all.

I'm playing today in trio with my keyboard MEDIASTATION X76 on one performance. Now is 1st round finished. I’m having good public and I can tell you no problems with keyboard. Before I had wait for next song too long (GENESYS or PA80) Now I play from song to song without any problem of jumping one arranged, on song with midi e.t.c. All works. And what is important all sounds better than before.

I thing in this stage will be today more fun than ever before.

Thanks to DOM for so great thing as OPEN SOURCE LIONSTRACS MEDIASTATION

Sorry I must back on stage.

Hello all.

I'm playing today in trio with my keyboard MEDIASTATION X76 on one performance. Now is 1st round finished. I’m having good public and I can tell you no problems with keyboard. Before I had wait for next song too long (GENESYS or PA80) Now I play from song to song without any problem of jumping one arranged, on song with midi e.t.c. All works. And what is important all sounds better than before.

I thing in this stage will be today more fun than ever before.

Thanks to DOM for so great thing as OPEN SOURCE LIONSTRACS MEDIASTATION

Sorry I must back on stage.

Hello again friend CRAIG, to response to your question today I record it from my MS. It´s a audio style with some giga sound´s.

This demo is just to say that is possible in the same style, GM sound, Mp3 sound and giga sound´s in just one style.

There is the link do demo;
http://www.filipe-veronica.com/msfilipedemo.mp3

This is my web site: www.filipe-veronica.com

Anyway.
Thanks to all

Best regard´s
Filipe Tomás

Craig:
I can appreciate that some do put in the amount of work and preparation required of a gigging musician, but there are some that just want (and expect to) take a new keyboard out of the box at 7:00pm and start gigging at 7:15pm.

One of the problems is that some audiences do not know what we are doing as arranger players and lump us together with DJs or Karaoke machines. So it doesn’t help if some manufacturer’s styles sound like a CD. Nor does it help when we have all the style tracks playing at the same time but the audience knows and sees only one person.

This is why I talk about individuality. It is about having a sound and style unique to your self. With arrangers it is very possible to do so.
It’s about having an accompaniment but still letting your audience know (by your music and stage presents) that you are in charge and you are not just playing or singing over some factory prerecorded thing.

Just look at the style of some of the seasoned OMB players. UD plays left hand bass sometimes, Scottyee mute some style tracks and plays a piano sound in the left and right hand simultaneously, Fran plays with adjusted midi files … and so on.

That’s the beauty of arrangers they give the player so much performance options and so many ways for a player to express his or her musical individuality; much more than a traditional closed system “workstation”.

The Genesys pro (which I use at the moment), still has the best all in one feature set for an arranger (probably second to the mediastation and Worsy if they are any good). The Genesys has good styles, good sounds,, a full functioning 32 track sequencer, a sampler (not just a sample reader), a sound editor, audio recording, a harmonizer, a CD and MP3 player and many other things. All you carry on a gig is the genesys pro and your sound system.

Hello Filipe Tomás
The sounds are coming together quite nicely, however if you are using Giga Samples do not record at less then 256 Kbs, otherwise the sounds have a very restrained effect. (Record it again at 256 and compare the 2; you will be amazed at the improvement in sound quality)
Keep up the good work.

Bill

I cannot figure out why these guys cannot get a decent video demo together. Every one I have seen of theirs looks like amature hour at the family thanksgiving dinner.

This guy is actually a great player with the chops and could show this board off much better if they'd rent a decent camera, go into a room with better acoustics, instead of the warehouse or whatever it is they are in here.

Too many button pushes too when the guy told him to change to piano.

I like this concept and have from the beginning, but will wait until someone puts together a "real" setup based on pc and plugs ins.

I'm not really sure how hard that could be, all the stuff is out there already, it's a matter of cooperation and assembly I believe.

Terry

------------------
jam on,
Terry
http://www.artisans-world.com/

Hi ABACUS, I replace the hold file by this new with 320Kps.

This style have WAV, GM and GIGA
( Is not MP3 in the arranger, but WAV )

There is the link:
http://www.filipe-veronica.com/msfilipedemo.mp3

Have a nice weekend .
Thanks

Filipe Tomas
Best Regard´s

Hi Filipe. Well that I must say is the best sound I've heard for a style coming out of the Mediastation up to yet, however even with giga sounds it still sounds to me no better than what I've heard coming out of a £500 Casio or low end PSR. It certainly doesn't grab you by the dangly bits and makes you go wow like the styles from the big manufacturers do.
Cheers for taking the time to post something though and best wishes to you.

i like what youve done filipe with your short demo thanks for that.

However craig just hit the nail on the head.

Really is nice to hear good sound of MS Filipe.

If somebody compare that with low cost system, than does not know that your style is from best sounds made. (GIGA - TASCAM please, comes to see what are some people tell here for your equipment)

For me are drums are really fantastic, bass nice and good balanced. And if you are looking on EQ you can see that all frequencies are well positioned. (3D picture is good) And on the end here are just enough instruments, not too much.

to the genesys: you are right all is on arranger not on demo and gigging musician.
I agree with you at all.


You need short time to prepare for playing. Also they need freedom to mute some parts or only play drums if audience wants to cooperate. This is life. In other way we will be DJ. If we are not having open system and change something every day is better to finish with playing and begin something else.

We need FREEDOM. Some of you forget that.

Magica I've used Giga samples since they were first ever available and have quite an extensive library. I do loads of backing tracks for singers on the professional UK circuit so need access to quality sounds. The arranger side of me is because I come from an organ background but my main bread and butter stuff is in the recording studio using PC and Mac software, synths etc. None of my Giga sounds sound that bad or cheap which I'm pleased to say.

That’s mean that you want to play always with good sounds.
GIGA SAMPLER is good thing. You can prepare all what you want.
But you can prepare also sounds with other stuff as VST and if you are having chain, can be sound specialized only for you.
You know how powerful computer with all this good sinths, programs, and converters is. You can do what you want.
Only thing is that you must know what you are doing.

Only chance for developing sounds and arrangers is that more people play with things like LIONSTRACS MEDIASTATION.

In next years will be with this system arrangers totally different.

Give them chance for future. But also critical remarks are good for developing.

We can always learn something.

To CRAIG:

Hi, after I place my demo about my Mediastation 76, i´m ready to ear from you a demo of your "sound type" in your keyboard. Whith this the forum people can apreciate too your sound type.

Thanks
Best regard´s

Filipe Tomas

CRAIG Please give us something yours.

Thanks