Why has the Popularity of Organs has died here in the US and yet Keyboards and electric pianos with all the bells and whistles have become popular, are they not the same. Other than the amount of keys, they do the same job, they just look different.

John C.

I suspect Bruno that the dreaded word "fashion" has a lot to do with it. Home organs became fashionable in the 70's and 80's and like all such things in this modern world they have their time and then fade into the past.

Of course there are more serious factors like size and weight in the equation. I also think that the small army of manufacturers who flooded the market with rubbishy organs that quickly disapointed the purchasers had a lot to do with it.

Regards,
Trevor

its because of the comparative size and weight most likely.

I think these are all factors. In addition, I think when technology took a quantum leap in the early eighties, the keyboard overtook the organ by sheer versatility.

I remember playing my B3 in restuarants in the seventies and I got a rhythm ace to go with it. Man, people ate that up. Now,that would be so outdated you wouldn't make a dime.

People have come to expect so much more these days, as you very well know,John.

However, the voicing of an organ is very unique, and there are many die hards that favor that sound.

My fondest memories are of this simpler time, but since we live in the 21st century, we have to keep up or fall by the wayside.

Bernie

What I find amusing is that a lot of people selling modern digital keyboards including 88 note digital piano's on ebay particularly are still calling these modern instruments 'organs' in error, it seems the 'organ' is still with us, but now, generally if it has black and white keys and you plug it in then it must be an organ even though it may sound like a piano?

Those of us who try to entertain the Great British Public have wrestled with this problem for years. In the public perception
'Organ' means one of two things..(well, three really but I won't go down that path!)
Church or Theatre. Various people have tried different names to describe what they play but nothing has yet made any impact on the public at large. "Digital Orchestras" are meaningless or misleading.. In my own advertising I alternate between Organ and Keyboard to try and attract a wider clientele but I don't think it has made any real difference.
Surely someone must be able to think
up a name to describe what we do which would interest the unconverted.. AND please don't suggest One Man Band.. Over here that
means a man in a funny costume with cymbals and drums attached to every extremity, a guitar strung round his neck and a mouthorgan and cazoo in his mouth.

Regards,
Trevor

From the entertainer's viewpiont:
Organs are big, very expensive and as a rule can't be updated. They can't be easily moved.
I was never so happy as the day I graduated from organs to arrangers, even though at that time arrangers were primitive and I needed outboard gear also. I used an external drum machine, DX7 for lead sounds and piano module for piano.
Still, no organ, leslie, dolly, bench, pedalboard, etc. to lug around.
I recently heard a guy played the latest and greatest Lowrey organ. I believe he said it cost around $20,000. It weighed a ton and it sounded like a skating rink. I'm sure he wasn't getting the most out of it, BUT, who cares--it was too big, too costly and too restrictive.
DonM

Bernie...still play 40 plus 2 hour jobs a year on a B-3 with a drummer...$350.00 a pop. The "B" stays at this Country Club, and I'll admit to using a digital grand on the left hand, but in the right situation, it STILL works!

Russ

I used to sell organs back in the early 80's, and the big push was "learn to play with one finger". Sold a ton to people who had the best intentions to learn to play but most came to the realization that the could never make it sound anywhere close to the way I did back at the store. I think everyone knows someone who has an organ just sitting in a room and hasn't even been turned on for years. That, and the fact that they soon crossed $20,000 and even up to $80,000. I donated my organ 15 years ago and bought a Yamaha psr 500. It would do tons more than my Baldwin would do. However
a year ago I found a perfect condition Lowrey MX-1 organ and couldn't resist getting back to my roots, so, I bought it and been having a blast. But here it is a year later and I'm bored with it so, welcome Roland G-70. I can't see myself getting bored with this baby.

hi
i use to have a wersi spetra and i loved the sounds and way it played, i have a technics kn6000 and a wersi pegasus now and love both of them and they dont take up half the space my organ use too, but if i had more room i'd love another wersi organ, i like the new lowery too and have played an old mx2 and loved the sounds. its so diffrent playing an organ to a keyboard.
bill

Great topic & Great posts

I love the organ but size & weight is certainly no small matter. The room the organ is in can make a dramatic difference in the way an organ sounds. My Technics FA1 is now in a basement and doesn't sound nearly a live as before the move. But from a control point, playability, and convenience they are really hard to beat. The FA1 hooks up brilliantly with my General Music XP module and gives me a Quasi 3 manual setup.

I've installed The Miditzer Theater organ Software in a spare computer and hooked that up to the FA1 and it really is brilliant software if you like Theatre Organ.

Expense wise the top lowreys seem to be commanding $80,000, mind boggling to say the least. The Big Allen�s and Walker organs go into the 6 figure category, people with money and really big homes buy them. Only thing stopping me is a really small home and no money LOL

I enjoy the arranger and I've had The Genesys, Technics KN7000, and the Yamaha PSR 2000. I still find the organ more enjoyable but still like having the module for more variety and modern sound. The organ - module hookup is pretty awesome.

I live near Portland Maine which has a Wonderful concert organ in City Hall and I'm amazed at the number of people that show up for concerts, both Theatre & Classical. The auditorium is usually about 90 % full for the TO concerts. Point is people still like the organ.

A screaming B-3 with a couple of Leslie's and someone who can play it will get the juices flowing in most any crowd.

When I grew up it seamed like 25 or 30 % of the families had Pianos I wonder what the figure might be today. I don�t think music or the study of it is nearly as strong of years past. The biggest practice the youngsters engage in is computer games. The study of music seems to be in serious decline. If anyone has some hard figures on it I would love to know them

Trevor the only thing I can think of in your case is sell the Sizzle, Music, & Great entertainment. Make them laugh. It�s funny a lot of people don�t like the organ till they have a close encounter. I go to Vegas at least once a year and take in shows whenever possible. They pack these places at $40 to several hundred dollars a ticket. And most of time it�s the music, some comedy, and showman ship. England still seems to have a pretty decent amount of people pursuing the organ. Yamaha pulled out of GB and the US with their organs and as such I will never buy another Yamaha anything. They had distributors wanting the product to boot. If the profit margins drop too much on the Tyros that will disappear too.
There are a lot of midi equipped organs around for peanuts that would make a fun rig for those so inclined.

I hope I didn�t bore you to death but enjoyed this greatly.

Jerry

The organ will always be my favorite instrument. Why should the weight be of any concern to the homeplayer? I doubt arranger keyboard players that mainly play at home will be moving their instrument from room to room so I really don't understand this kind of reasoning. Maybe keyboard players are just sissies compared to organ and piano players. Also, how many keyboards are left to gather dust after a short time?

Wersi and Bohm organs are upgradable. The Hammond B3 is still an organ to be reckoned with and it will always find a place on stage even long after the T2.

There's a big difference between arranger keyboard and organ playing techniques. A keyboard is far more restricted while an organ gives you much more freedom, be it just playing or musical expression.

Organplayers such as Franz Lamber draw huge crowds, sell millions of records. They are show people and watching them is a feast for the eye. Many are known even by non-players. Can't see a keyboard player duplicate that feat.

Recapping on the public confusion between organs and keyboards ect...I call recall an incident recently on a high profile music talent show on uk television where the presenter announced that they were doing a competion to win a... 'fantastic electric organ! ...worth over �1000....the camera the pans round to show the instrument which actually was.....an 88 note digital piano?

It shows that to most non-musicians there is only one type of electric keyboard instrument....An organ!

Quite a few years ago I used to gig solo on a Wurlitzer piano, I had a booking come in to play, the proprietor asked what I would would be playing, Wulitzer piano I told him...when I turned up I was billed as playing the Wulitzer organ...apparently he thought I made a mistake and I should have said organ instead of piano, I had loads of organ enthusiast's turn up..oops!

AMEN! AMEN! AMEN!




True, and that makes me very, very sad.

chas

Wow, good topic. Thank goodness for you guys. When you mention 'organ', many people will have different ideas about what that is. For me, I think of the full console classic organ. To me, a full organ like that is the greatest sound on the planet, solo, or backing up an orchestra. Then of course there's the theatre organs, Hammond (and their clones) style of organs, the home organs of the 70's/80's as you've mentioned and the big 'power arranger' style organs like the new Lowrey's and Roland Ateliers.

Since the beginning of the classic style organ (ie pipe organ), they have been basically prohibitedly expensive for many people to have in their homes. Even now, the digital organs (Allen, Rodgers etc) are ghastly expensive for the home. Then when the Hammonds and then the Spinet style home organs with their new exiting technology came around, and at attractive prices, you all know how popular they became. Recently, as the technology developed and they could put what these organs can do into arrangers, at a cheaper price...you know the rest. Of course, you can still get organs like this with today's technology, (Ateliers, Lowry) but at insane prices. So you can buy a great arranger keyboard, get a set of midi pedals, and fundamentally, you've got you're home organ up to today's standards. But alas, some things cannot be duplicated. For example, you'll never get the playability of a full console, classic organ or even the Hammonds. I think a good job has been done by most major arranger manufactures to reproduce the the organ sound, be it classic, Hammond, Theatre. So good, that most of the time, only the player knows that it is a 'cheap' keyboard, not a full organ. But I think most of you would agree, that it will never compare to sitting down at a beast of an Allen or Hammond and letting 'er rip.

Why are so few people today taking up the organ? Again, I think you guys nailed it. It's just too expensive. There just aren't a lot of inexpensive options as far as organs go now. And who is going to invest thousands of dollars in what is available in the hopes that they will be able to learn it and like it enough to continue. Unless you've got an organ already, which likely would have been your parents or grand parents and be one of the unipressive (by today's standards) spinet organs who's lacklustre sounds would inspire nobody, it seems to make a lot more sense to learn a different instrument. It gives me hope though that as keyboard technology has improved, particularly with organ sounds and playability, that new comer keyboard students (or virtuosos if you will) will learn he organ styles here, fall in love, and take it to the next level, not allowing the king of the instruments to be forgotten.
Thanks a lot all,
-Jon


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-For the Glory of His Name