FROM THE PSR STYLES GROUP MESSAGES:

Dear Bruce,

WOW! You've hit it right on the head. "No, we only offer professional instruments. . . no portable keyboards." If a 9000/pro or Tyros can do anything a "pro" non-arranger synth costing thousands of dollars can do (AND MORE), why is the "portable keyboard" a "toy" ?????? Are these Korg, Technics, Yamaha, etc. synths not "portable".

I can understand this remark as it might apply to the $123 dollar PSR at Costco or K-Mart, but a 1000/2000 ?? a 9000/pro ???

I guess if we disable the accompaniment features on these hi end PSRs, or perhaps cement them to the floor (or add some lead weights somewhere) we can then have a "professional instrument" !

Cheers,

Bob

----- Original Message -----
From: Bruce Spangler
To: yamaha-psr-styles@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, September 02, 2002 1:41 PM
Subject: Re: [yamaha-psr-styles] REPLIES upon REPLIES


Hi Chris, Cass, and Y'all,

I totally agree that it's useful to have some of the older messages attached. I'd be lost without them.

As to the negative aspects of the PSR name, I've found some of that, too. I have recently been shopping some of the local music stores in hopes of finding someone who will be showing a TYROS. They always ask what kind of an instrument it is, or what instruments that I already own. When I tell them that I own several PSRs, the "upscale" stores react as if you're some kind of "less than professional" musician. Some have even said something to the effect of, "No, we only offer professional instruments. . . no portable keyboards."

One dealer, after learning that I also own an Allen Theater Organ (this is a fairly large AGO instrument), said, "Why on earth would you want to play a toy (like a PSR) if you own one of those?" I told him that the Allen simply wasn't as much fun to play, and couldn't come close to making the quality of music that the PSRs (and hopefully, the new TYROS) can make.

When someone makes a comment like this, I think that we must understand that we're simply staring into the face of ignorance.

Kindest regards,
Bruce Spangler
FutureQuest, Incorporated
Education and Entertainment Services
Website: www.spanglerscience.com
Email: bruce@spanglerscience.com


----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Bell
To: yamaha-psr-styles@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, September 01, 2002 5:46 PM
Subject: RE: [yamaha-psr-styles] REPLIES upon REPLIES


Hi Cass

[Edited Comments]

As for the stigma .... I had no idea this was a problem anywhere. I'm not aware of any stigma at all attached to PSR's and similar keyboards here in the UK. Anyone got any different experiences ?

Regards
Chris

My reply to Chris's original comment:

Dear Chris,

Here in the USA, arranger keyboards have an entirely different reputation. They are mostly looked upon as toys by serious musicians. We think this is, in part, because they acquired this appellation years ago when they were more toys than musical instruments. Most musicians here today have no idea what these machines can do.

Also, having a group playing here, rather than a "one-man-band" is much more popular. Everyone wants to play guitar and be a rock star! And they need a few guys with backing instruments (drums, keyboard, etc.); but they don't want the keyboard playing to take over the whole show!!!

Arrangers are mostly sold as low end synths in mass merchandise outlets. Actual Musical Instrument Stores don't carry many arrangers. They might have a few middle end PSRs. They rarely would carry the high end 9000/pro.

A lot of players would avoid an arranger even if it had more and better sounding voices and was cheaper than a non-arranger (even if they never intended to use the arranger features apart from those that would be in a "normal" synth) !!!!!!!!! Go Figure!!!

Hopefully all this is changing (I really think it is [slowly] !!!).

I think there is a lot of prejudice here that one is not really making music when you're getting all the built in "helpers" in our arrangers! How silly!

The proof of the matter is the songs submissions we get in our PSR Songs Group. Most of the stuff we just dash off is a heck of a lot better than the sequenced stuff you find on the net (in my opinion). Many of our submissions, especially those where people take the time to multi-track and edit and sequence are real masterpieces that would be hard to match by anyone.

Sure, a very pro guitarist, a great drummer, a top synth player, a real horn, together, are going to ALWAYS sound better than an accordion player trying to do the same on a single instrument (where he/she has no real experience with these other instruments). And, of course, while our PSRs keep getting more realistic voices they may never sound like the "real" instrument (especially acoustic ones).

Still, they really don't deserve the "bad rap" they get here....

Cheers,

Bob

I can tell you one place on TV that often gives portables the "TOY" reputation... Anyone ever watch the Home Shopping Network?.. They often are selling those lighted key Casio's and they have someone who demos the thing for like 1/2 an hour. The guy basically talks about the arranger function, and so forth... So many people see these shows and think all arrangers are just toys and cannot compare to the pro market.. Like I said before, all it's going to take is a popular keyboard magazine to run a huge story on them and show the pro world that these pro and semi pro arrangers are just as good if not better than the pro and semi pro synths... Also keep in mind the age old stereotype attached to arrangers.. The first thing people see are built in speakers and they think ahhhh just another overpriced toy. The only time arrangers are even taken seriously is when they don't have speakers.. If a good keyboard magazine did a good story on arrangers, and they started to appear on stage more, this whole thing would do a complete turn around.... Also look at it this way... How many pros do you know would be completely pissed off if they realized that an arranger keyboard had the same capabilites os their synths....????? If all the pros new this the sales of synths would drop some, and people would start buying the arrangers. I think companies who make arrangers like Korg, Yamaha, and Roland, don't want their arrangers to "truly" be in the professional market because if they were and everyone knew the possibilities of them, people just might start choosing them over the expensive synths.......

I think we have to realize that arranger keyboards by and large ARE toys, which is why they are sold in the toy departments of many stores. I have seen arranger-type keyboards made for toddlers. Some PSR models are pretty childish, you gotta admit. Then again, some people would buy a PSR 9000 for the same reason they would buy a toy: for them or their kids (or grandkids) to play around with.

This is actually our secret connection to our audiences: while most regular people have never touched a Fender Stratocaster nor would they know what to do with one, many people have played with an arranger keyboard at some point even if it was just in a department store or at a friend's house. Parents buy them for their kids hoping to spark some musical interest. Professional performers that can really perform very well on one have an immediate connection with average people.

Arranger keyboards will never impress snobby keyboard salesman who's commission comes from big-ticket keyboards, or wanna-be rock stars that buy keyboards based on what their hero superstars play, but for regular people that will comprise the majority of your audience, arranger keyboards are familiar and cool.

Pro,
"Arranger keyboards will never impress snobby keyboard salesman who's commission comes from big-ticket keyboards"

They make more commission on a 9000 @ $3000, then they do on a Motif at $1699.

This entire thing about arranger vs workstation not only irritates but bores me. The judgement by all should come from the end product.....the music, not the vehicle that got one there.

Whoever it was a few posts back that said they've heard better tunes often done on an arranger on the net than a workstation is correct. I've heard some pretty lousy workstation snobs music too.

The thing that really irritates me about this snobbery is this.....if a person uses a back up band to do a tune, it really in my mind is zero difference from us using arrangers. That is our back up band, bought and paid for. If a "workie" sequences in back up tracks, then hits the play button, again in my mind it is zero difference from us using an arranger.

If these snob idiots think it is somehow cheating.... really? Did they actually learn to play a sax or guitar or strings they just sequenced in. Of course not. Do they use the arppegiator, then how is that not cheating? Do they use combis and the dual arps? Those are zero difference from auto accmp.

These anal retentive snobs, including music stores, players, corporations that promote these as toys need to get their heads out of their a** It's about the music and the end result.

The final laugh to me is this...if they are such hotshot Pro players.....how come they're working for chump wages kissin' customers butts in a music store?
that's my two E bucks worth,
Terry

[This message has been edited by trtjazz (edited 09-03-2002).]

Terry, well said!
I was at a local music store the other day looking at some speakers and one of the new 21-yeqr-old "experts" who didn't know me asked what I planned to use them for.
When I told him for PSR2000, at first he didn't even know what it was (and I BOUGHT it there), then he made some sort of belittling remark about it not making much difference what kind of speakers I used.
I was not in a great mood anyway so I just told him I needed a third p.a. system for backup to assure that there was no chance I would end up working in a music store and
having to wait on people who slept til noon, played golf til dark and then worked for a few hours doing something they love.
DonM
P.S. I didn't buy anything but a cord.

Elegant, Don, elegant!
Right on the mark!

Roy-Andrè

Don,

We're getting a little ornery in our old age aren't we?

Tom

P.S. "Oh Remember Me" is now included in my song list. Thanks!

Don,
LOL...great and so true a response you gave to him.
Terry