Hello

Thought you people could update me on how much I ought to be charging on different types of gigs as to type and time involved. Any real good prospecting ideas on how to sniff out work. And how about negotiating the price. Getting and keeping the gig. Making deals for steady work etc....

I have mainly been taking work that just comes to me mostly from exposure selling Lowrey organs, teaching and exposure as organ concert artist/clinician.

I live in Pensacola, Florida and do not sing, but, I sometimes play chords with my left hand on the PSR2000 and right hand trumpet(the real one you have to blow). I've also considered pulling out my soprano sax and playing along to midi files.

Thanx for input as always.

Scott Langholff

Scott L: From my own personal experience, I can definitely tell you that if you sing(while playing the kb), that it will greatly increase your gig earning potential ! Singing somehow commands & holds the listener's (audience) attention 'a lot' more than performing an instrumental set only. I strongly urge you to seriously consider investing time to develop your pipes (voice lessons?).

As far as rates go, first find out what the 'going rate' in your area is for people doing similar gigs (nursing homes, retirement communities, clubs, weddings, etc). Start your rates at the lower end of the spectrum to attract/build up clientele. If you aren't already established or known in your area, approach a suitable venue and offer to play for a first time intro rate (such as 1/2 of your normal rate), but do NOT play for free (even for the first time) to potential paying clients. I've found this technique usually doesn't work out. I reserve free playing only for legitimate non profit fund raising benefits & events and for family/friends. I recommend establishing and charging all similar type client venues the same rate because nothing is worse than one client finding out you charged more/less than the other guy. Consider rasing your rates only after you've established yourself in your area = your gig schedule is fully booked for a month, and you can afford to turn away work. Honestly, integrity, promptness, and an outgoing friendly attitude will bring you respect and subesequently bring more work and more $. After playing a potential ongoing venue a couple of times, I strongly recommend you sign a mutual business contract to protect both parties. I also insist on written & signed contracts and receiving a non refundable deposits for wedding, anniversary party & corporate gigs as well. I hope these suggestions help. I'm sure other pros out there (Uncle Dave, Donny, DonM, Mario, etc) will have other suggestions as well. Good luck.

Scott

All good points Scott, but I disagree about a free audition. I have never shyed away from a free sample to showcase my act in the clients "home area" and it has NEVER come up dry. When you are unknown to a client, it's a great offer of good faith to do a sample set or two so you can all get the feeling of how you fit in THAT situation. After you are established, this is not as important because clients can come and hear you somewhere else. Until you are set in a regular schedule, I see no down side to a few auditions to get your name out there.

I quote a price, and tell the client that if I am asked back .... they pay the rate. Period. If they are not happy with the price - too bad. I walk. They almost always give it a try IF they like the show. You have to earn the right to stay at a job, but you usually have the advantage in the beginning, if the client likes your work.

I intentionally price myself above a lot of my competitors, because I think I'm worth it. Once you work cheap .... you can't go back very easy. Establish an act - set a price, and then get out there and sell it, man! Let the repeat business speak FOR you. The best advertisement for an entertainer is a happy client as a reference. Hand out lots of cards, and send out contracts the same day you get the call back.
Be aggressive ... your competition will be!

I disagree with you Uncle Dave because in another recent post you said you charged $150 for the majority of your nightly gigs which is what ordinary sidemen have charged for decades. If that's more than your competition charges, you need to move to a better market.

Singing is overrated as are many singers... entertainment value and professionalism is what counts when you go after classier venues that are able to pay more than your regular beer bars. I charge more as an instrumentalist than my singing competitors, but I look and sound like a very expensive act and people expect to pay more for that. Nobody ever expected to pay less for Liberace than Hank Williams just because one of them sang... it's a matter of the market and your personal marketing.

I purposely located myself in an area that has a lot of resorts and establishments that cater to an upper-income market, then worked on my image and presentation to outclass my established competition and went after their gigs aggressively. Taking over the nightly gig market then allowed me access to the area's private party market. If you want to swim with the sharks, you gotta have an appetite...

Actually . . . BOTH Liberace and Hank sang. Though Liberace was more famous for his keyboard skills and campy style, he wisely added singing to his act as well. His vocal rendition of: "I'll Be Seeing You" which he sang at the end of all his weekly television shows, is perfect testament to how effective adding singing to your show can be.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by The Pro:
[B]I disagree with you Uncle Dave because in another recent post you said you charged $150 for the majority of your nightly gigs
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$150 a night & there is UD trying to convince us he is a pro, well maybe by name but not by earnings.
Better get a proper job

I don't think Dave is trying to convince anybody of anything. He has supported his family for many, many years as a full-time entertainer, as I have also. He is trying to be helpful and to answer the question.
I know that he averages far more than $150 per night.
DonM

I don't know how all this financial news centered around me, but the $150 price is an average for club dates only. that's not even half of my years work. The private parties are where I make my real money. The clubs are just a place to hone my skills and meet clients. My average prices are well above all my friends, so whatever you're thinking .... don't pity me for not having enough cash. I do more than OK. No other musician in this area makes more than I do.

Some of you guys crack me up. I've been doing this full time since 1969. Even before I was done school I was playing in clubs and at parties. Most of the "legit" players in the union don't make what I do. If I took a gig as a pit player in a broadway show ... it'd be a pay cut, so don't tell me what determines a "pro" salary please.

I offer my advice here to spread some of the tips I've learned the hard way, so the younger players won't learn the same dumb way I did. If you guys with your "proper" jobs want to critisize my craft or my business principles, call me - I'll tell you all about my life. Until you know the inside scoop - please don't assume to know my situation. Music has been a very successful carreer for me because I work my butt off. It isn't easy - an it isn't even POSSIBLE for alot of the players out there. It's show BUSINESS ..... remember the BUSINESS part.
No one pays for the art ... they buy a service and it better be good. I sell service .... at a very good price(for ME) in a very pleasing sonic package.



[This message has been edited by Uncle Dave (edited 09-07-2002).]

Hello UD,
I have never read a review of one of your gigs where the 'attendee's' were not bowled over by your performance. From the few samples and mp3's of your work I have heard I curse my bad fortune for living so far away that I may never get to see you perform live. It is this talent that makes you a true pro and maybe that is what prompted such sour replies to your post.

The fact that you obviously earn enough to support your family AND change keyboards five or six times a year seems to have gone unnoticed

ttfn
Tony

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If sometimes I am over-dressed I make up for it by always being immensly over-educated.

Thanx Tony,
I hate to have to defend myself to people that don't even know me. Seems a bit immature, don't ya think?
Thanx to my Cajun pal, Don too. You guys are the greatest.
It's nice to have people in your corner.

If anyone is keeping score ... I worked 4 hours at a beautiful poolside engagement party, ten minutes from my house today. Ate 5 star food and had top shelf drinks at my disposal. I got a measly $900 bucks for my sweat. Hardly pays the cleaning bills.
Maybe I should look into that "proper" job.

They also contracted Dec 28th. That's a tough night to book. The Saturday between Christmas & New Years .... who throws parties then? Oh well ...... guess I'll muddle through that one too.