Yamaha just contacted a member of the Yamaha style group that he had to remove all of the CVP209 styles he converted for use on the PSR9000, PSR2000, and PSR740. This is really really disappointing for me, because Yamaha hasn't sold commercial styles to customers for years, so the only way to get new Yamaha styles now will be to buy a new keyboard. Luckily, I downloaded these styles before they were removed from the site.

Larry

If they start doing things like this, they will only drive customers to other brands.
I'm a die-hard Yamaha user, but will not hesitate to go elsewhere if they are against us rather than with us.
They should post the styles on their own page to make the keyboards more usefull to owners.
I hope they read these messages.
DonM

I second that, if Yamaha is going to go that
way I will have to go with another brand of
KB.
Enjoying the 9000 PRO
Denny

I have already emailed Yamaha to ask them if this is true. If it is the PSR2000 is the last board I will ever buy from them. In fact, I still have a window to return the board, and if Yamaha does confirm this, the PSR 2000 may be going back to be replaced by a workstation instead. it won't be a Motif...

On the PA80 site ( Korgs' own site ) there is a midi to style converter and it will play the Korg styles in real time on a computer. It isn't too hard to figure out that the styles are a large part of the Os2 upgrade, and when Korg announced the midi to style converter, they let it be known that you could hear their styles on it, and obviously they knew that their styles could be made into midi files and converted for other boards. In addition, designers of their boards ( PA80 and Karma ) post regularly on the corresponding Yahoo groups sites and often answer concerns of those who have questions or want to see improvement in their boards.

If what I read on the Yamaha PSR style site is really true, then it seems to me that Yamaha is acting a bit paranoid and standoffish toward their arranger customers right at the same time that Korg seems to be trying to change their past reputation ( by some anyway ) for lack of service.

AJ



[This message has been edited by Bluezplayer (edited 11-26-2001).]

I can see why Yamaha would want to stop style converters from making styles introduced on newly introduced high-end instruments available to the public-at-large at no cost. The CVP209 styles are needed to help justify the cost of a multi-thousand dollar electronic piano, and its value will be undermined by the availability of those styles to sub-$1k keyboards. If style converters would impose some self constraint and only convert styles on discontinued models, we probably would not have this problem. If they continue to convert new styles, keyboard makers might resort to technological and legal solutions (as Harry Fox has done with MIDI song files) that would hurt all of us.

It is their right to ask this, I can not dispute that. It is my right to choose a different brand. I really find it hard to believe that because of the availability of styles that many people will choose to just download new styles rather than buy a new board. On the contrary, I think people have stated that they buy Yamaha arrangers knowing that they can add styles in the manner that we had been doing. Could the reason be that Yamaha intends to sell the new styles to customers of their older boards? I put the new 2000 styles on my 740 when the styles came out. 3 weeks later I bought the board, because I felt it was a significant improvement over the 740. A change in a few styles is not going to sway my decison on whether or not to spend 1200 dollars on a keyboard, but how a company treats its customers certainly will.

AJ

[This message has been edited by Bluezplayer (edited 11-26-2001).]

I think that styles are the bread and butter of arranger keyboard companies. That leads to another point that there might be a strategic separation between professional workstation and arranger keyboards. I am not saying that arranger keyboards are not professional. All I am saying that they are made in such a way not to be that expandable compared to non-arranger keyboards. Companies want you to update your keyboard every few years. Shall we talk about cars?

We as musicians often make a big deal out of the " professionalism" aspect of arrangers vs workstations. In what way would a COMPANY who makes keyboards benefit by "seperating"
them in this way or making one type upgradable and another not?

AJ

Blue,

The answer is simple. Companies want you to buy new keyboard every few years. I am very interested in a futuristic arranger keyboard whose factory styles and sounds can all be replaced completely. So you won't be needing new hardware, just big software update. But this will not be profitable to companies.

I understand the logic there SK, but not the point about seperating arrangers from workstations in that manner. Workstations offer expansion boards, sampling...etc. Modern high end arrangers are now offering sampling, and beginning to offer other workstation type features as well. It appears, at least to me, that the companies are trying to market arrangers so that the gap between them and workstations is closer, not further apart, in an effort to attract people other than the "typical" arranger user. Hence the marketing " Korg PROFESSIONAL arranger...Yamaha 9000 PRO..etc.

As I said previously, I downloaded the 2000 styles onto my PSR740 and yet 3 weeks later I bought the 2000. I did not purchase it because of the styles..my reasons were primarily because of the improved features. If the primary improvements to an arranger were mainly in its styles, I would never upgrade. I tend to doubt that others would either if this were the case.

On the contrary, Korg has actually allowed people to get their internal styles in the manner I described above. There is nothing on their OWN site that prevents a "Yamaha" or "Roland" user ( or an I30 user for that matter ) from taking their styles and converting them.

Bob Gelman raised a really good point about all of this though on his site. Before I go really crazy with all of this, and swear off Yamaha completely, I want to be certain that I know from Yamaha whether this is now company policy or whether the email received by the Yahoo groups member was genrated by a low or mid level employee without the authorization or knowledge of the company as a whole.

AJ



[This message has been edited by Bluezplayer (edited 11-26-2001).]

AJ and Others,
I spoke with my friend the assistant product manager at Yamaha US today. He had been on vacation since Thanksgiving. After asking him to read all of whats been going on about Yamaha and style uploading and downloading, he called me back and said this was the first he had heard or read anything about this. He was going to look into Yamaha's position on this matter. It's my understanding that Yamaha has not put any restrictions on uploading or downloading of styles in the past. I will report back just as soon as I hear something.
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California