As many of you already know, I utilize my own custom created MusicFinder "Song Library" Database file which includes over 600 songs in my performance repetorie. In addition to internal PRESET styles, a great MANY of my song records utilize (link to) to custom Styles located in my Tyros keyboard's USER Memory area.

Ok, here's the dilemma I recently discovered. It will not be possible to fully utilize my custom created MusicFinder Database file when loaded on ANOTHER Tyros keyboard, even if the custom styles are copied to the SAME place in USER memory on the 2nd keyboard as the 1st keyboard. Though MFD song records which utilize PRESET internal Tyros styles work fine, MFD Song records which utilize custom styles stored in USER memory will not load. These will return with the error message: :style cannot be found". Here's the reason why:

Interestingly enough, the MusicFinder Database structure does NOT link to song style 'NAMES', but to a generic code # which is (randomly?) assigned to a specific file position (hierarchy) in USER Memory instead. This is more like a pointer to a specific folder level & position within that folder. If you delete or move a given style (even within the same folder), the MusicFinder Database pointer is RE-ASSIGNED yet ANOTHER number. As a result, simply copying all USER Memory Styles to another Tyros/PSR3000 keyboard, and in the same USER MEMORY folder setup configuration will NOT necessarily assure you that the proper style will be called up because the number position assignments will probably not be the same again, even though the file resides in the same folder & heirarchy level as on the original KB. Because of this, I'm coming to the realization now that it's not practical to utilize MusicFinder File which heavily utilize 'custom styles' on any other Tyros keyboard than the one it was created on, and that the only solution for calling up custom song styles for specific songs is to create & rename custom styles to given song names, and/or create registration bank files to call the custom styles up.

As many of you know, I'm attending the Florida SZ Jam in April, and using another attendee's Tyros KB to play on. I realize now that I won't be able to fully utilize my own custom MusicFinder Database that I planned to load into the borrowed Tyros keyboard because at least 1/2 (or more) of my songs utilize custom styles in USER Memory. It appears the only solution is calling up the styles manually from a song title-style 'printout' list, or havining to spend hours recreating custom styles and/or registrations to call up these songs from.

Curious if anyone else here has run into this same MusicFinder problem when file is loaded on another Tyros keyboard. Advice, further insight, and a possible solution to the problem appreciated. Thanks.

Scott

Glad you found this out ahead of time. Could have been a crisis at an actual performance.

How did you happen to discover the glitch?

The same scenario may hold through on the PSR3000. I wonder if the the registrations that call up the USB thumb drive styles change on another keyboard (PSR3000). Looks like we have to make sure ahead of time.

Thanks for the heads-up.


Regards,


Jerry

Scott,
Even with MFD problem, seems like you put a lot of effort in learning Tyros. I'm not able to help you, but really like to compliment on your effort and willingness to share the info. I'm so new on the Tyros, I like the sounds and style, but even registration set up frustrated me already, and I used registrations exclusively on SD1 when I play. Everybody seems to agree that Tyros operation system is better, maybe I learn that one day.

Tye

Just a guess here, but if you would store the custom styles on the smart card (or thumb drive) and stick it into another board, it might work since the code # stays the same ?

John

From my testing experience, Registration Bank (.RGT) files search for (and link to) the actual given Style 'NAMES', and don't rely on the randomly assigned style location 'number position' method the way the MusicFinder Database 'style retrival' system does. The Tyros doesn't include memory stick support, but I've noticed that even if a Registration File is moved, or loaded via remote media (floppy diskette, etc), it is still able to consistantly find (and load) the correct style in user memory or HD. - Scott

Scott,

It's the same on the 3000 as well, something I discovered the first hour that I had my back-up 3000. It took about an hour to go through the files and fix the problem, not a big deal, but a pain in the butt. The trick to making this a bit easier is to sort the MFD by style, then you'll be able to access the problem files fairly quick.

Gary

Users need to be wary about depending upon music finder files that reference user styles.

Use in other Tyros is impossible for the reason Scott mentions (Tyros assigns a style number based upon the current configuration of the machine and no machine is identical).

Even use in the same Tyros requires care. There have been some reports (albeit not many) that the instrument, at some point, decided to reorganize the user styles and therefore change all the internal style numbers. We do not know why or when this happens, but if you are not prepared, it can be a disaster.

The only safe way of using user styles with a music finder is to make the music finder entry on the instrument itself. This creates the music finder record on both the music finder database and in a section of the associated user style. If the style is saved, it can be reloaded to any machine and it will recreate the mfd entry in the current database as it is being loaded.

Regards,

Michael

Thanks to everyone for your feedback & replies. Gar & Michael's replies CONFIRM my worst fear that the only reliable option for calling up my custom style linked MFD songs on 'another' Tyros other than my own, will be to create multiple copies of the same custom style used for different various 'song titles' and re-naming each of these files to their specific song name as well as storing each song's specified tempo.

I have up 20 songs utilizing the SAME identical custom style, so first need to duplicate 20x, the same USER style file, rename each a different 'song name', and store each with the song's specified tempo. This unfortunately looks to be a time consuming task having to go thru this procedure with all the other custom styles currently utilized by my MusicFinder as well.


Michael: Is there perhaps a Yamaha Style editor program you might recommend which could automate the style dup process as well as editing each style's: "Name" and "Tempo" quicker than doing them one by one?

The only other solution I suppose would be to PRINT OUT (via Michael Bedesem's "MUSIC FINDER VIEW" program), a listing of all the MFD songs which utilize USER memory, figure out which specific USER 'style name' each of the different cryptic style numbers my Tyros (randomly?) refers to, and then "manually" locate & load the correct USER style as needed when performing each song. A pain in the butt for sure! It looks (to me) like the 1st option may be best option in the long run, especially if I ever want to perform my songs on another Tyros (perhaps Tyros2? ) again. - Scott

Scott:

You do not need to create separate versions of the style.

Just load the user style in your instrument and go to the music finder and create new records using the style for each song/tempo. This automatically places mfd records in the style itself and when this style is loaded into another machine it will add these items.

Two of my programs read the mfd entries in a style, but right now, no program that I know of adds or edits them. I will look into it.

Regards,

Michael

[This message has been edited by Michael P. Bedesem (edited 03-28-2005).]

Michael, I'm a bit confused about what you're saying.

My primary Tyros keyboard's created MusicFinder file is setup with a few 'up to' 20 individual MFD 'song records' accessing the SAME 'user' style stored in USER Memory, with the user style # (assigned by the Tyros) for these specific 20 MFD song records, displayed when viewed in your "MusicFinder View" program. Are you suggesting that if I load this MFD database file into ANOTHER Tyros keyboard that I can copy that USER style anywhere in the 2nd Tyros keyboard's USER memory area, and subsequently only need to re-establish the connection (link) to that specific USER style from ONE of the above 20 MusicFinder song records, and the rest of the MFD song records (19) that share that same USER style (19) will automatically be linked to that same USER style & subsequent new style # given that style (by 2nd Tyros keyboard) ? If this is the case, it will definitely make setting up my MusicFinder database on another Tyros MUCH a lot easier & a LOT faster: taking minutes vs hours. Thanks in advance for clarification. - Scott

In my case, I copied my MFD to Music Finder View, then did a bit of editing, then copied it back into the 3000, and the user styles were not recognized. However, when I created the new MFD on the 3000 alone, and did not use Music Finder View for editing user styles, everything seems to work fine. I'll be bringing my other 3000 into the office on Wednesday evening, and I'll try to load the same MFD into it and see if I get the same results. Keep your fingers crossed!

Gary

Gar, I'm really anxious to find out your results after loading your MFD file (originally created on your primary PSR3000, and of which include multiple MFD song records which utilize the same custom USER Memory style) into your other PSR3000.

It'll be especially interesting to find out whether 'all' MFD song records which utilize the same USER style, will subsequently, automatically link to the shared USER style, once any 'ONE' of those MFD song record's USER style link is re-saved in the MFD program, and on the 2nd Tyros. I'm looking forward to your finding.

Scott

Scott:

My understanding is that the only way to add music finder records that reference user styles to a 2nd instrument is to load user styles that have music finder entries that were created on a PSR/ Tyros, not MusicFinderView.

The reason is the following: When you create a entry to the PSR music finder database on the PSR (not the PC), it stores the data in the referenced style, including user styles. If you save a user style, the mfd entries are included, and when that style is loaded into another instrument, the entries are automatically included (as part of the style load procedure) in the installed music finder file.

As a practical matter, it means taking all your music finder entries that reference user styles and reentering them on instrument and then saving each of the user styles for loading into the target instrument.

As said earlier, this is my understanding. You should certainly test the procedure before expending a lot of effort.

A simpler soultion would be add the entries to the user styles using the PC (easier typing) or have a program such as MusicFinderView be able to do it(assuming that the entries were alreay there). Unfortunately, these solutions do not exist today. I will look at addressing this.

Regards,

Michael

Scott & Michael,

I just loaded my MFD from my backup PSR-3000, one that was totally created and saved on the keyboard and the user files did not transfer. I had to go back and edit each entry that had a user file and re-enter the user style for it to work.

Wish I had better news, but that's the way the damned thing works.

Oh well, just another fun day in Paradise!

Gary