I've probably brought this complaint up before, but it was never highlighted in a separate thread like this:

How many of you use the PSR2000's 'Registration Sequence' feature along with Registration Memory 'Buttons 1-8' when performing? I myself use this feature all the time, especially for pre-arranged song numbers where different parts of a song or medley (AABA, solo, custom voice setups, modulation, style changes, etc) are saved in sequential Registration Memory buttons (1-8) & possibly even covering mutiple reg banks. I rely on using the 'Registsration Sequence (1-8)' feature to move sequentially up thru the individual Registration buttons triggered via a footswitch pedal.

My BIG complaint before performing a song, is always having to remember to set the Reg Memory back to #1 via the 'back/next' buttons, and NOT by merely pressing Registration button #1 directly.

Regretably, pressing Reg button #1 directly will NOT reset the Registration Sequence (1-8) setting back to 1. As a result, I've encountered more than my share of embarassing false performance starts because I forgot to set the Registration Sequence to #1 via the back/next keys, but instead simply pressed the indiviual Reg #1 button itself (a much more intuitive & easier approach). This ends up creating disasterous results, because when you later in the song, trigger an incremental reg memory button setup change via the footpedal, the Reg Sequence might switch from reg memory #1 to #7 instead of what was intended: #1 to #2, because the Reg Sequence setting was unknowingly set to #6, not #1.

There needs to be a TWO - way link between the Registration Sequence settings & the Registration Memory individual buttons 1-8.

Currently when you change the 'Reg Sequence' settings via 'back/next' buttons, it will subsequently change the Registration Memory Button selection as well, but unfortunatelly this does NOT work the other way around. You should be able to press any individual Reg Memory Bank button 1-8 directly and have it automatically change the Registration Sequence setting to reflect this as well. I wonder if this might have been resolved in a later PSR2000 OS version? I have one of the early OS versions. PSR2000 owners: PLEASE check this on YOUR keyboard and report back your findings.

Thanks in advance for your feedback, - Scott


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http://scottyee.com

[This message has been edited by Scottyee (edited 05-02-2002).]

Can I assume (from the lack of response or interest) that I'm the only one here who uses the PSR2000's 'Registration Sequence' (page 142) feature in conjuction with 'Registration Memory Bank Presets? - Scott

Scott..
To tell you the truth, I don't remember seing anyone else here that uses as many registrations for a song...or even a medley...as you do. I have enough trouble remembering what is in 4 or 5 registration buttons on a song I built. Especially if there are style changes within the bank, which I have been doing more of lately.
Eddie

Hi Scott,
I only have one question at this time.
How do you remember all this?
When your playing on a job how do remember which buttons to push & when?
I can see it your getting a song ready to record you could memorize this fore one song!
But in in one evening you could probably play & sing close to a 100 songs. That's a lot to remember!
Your friend,
Nobby

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Eddie:

Most of the songs I play which utilize Reg Memory (like you) only use 4-8 separate memory registsrations. Only when I doing a particualry long song medley are successive memory 'banks' ever required. I typically trigger a registration change at each 'section' a song. In other words, if a song is a typical AABA form song and I do it twice, I would use 8 separate registrations and use the foot pedal to trigger the regs to move up sequentially during the song. This way I only have to remember to press 'ONE' button (other than playing the keyboard itself) for the entire song. Much much easier than having to remember which buttons (vari A,B,C,D, fill button, left/right/layer voice changes) while performing cuz it's all stored in the reg memory buttons. An easy way to check/view the contents of each individual reg button is by storing a brief descrip title of it as part of the registration and view it while playing.

Nobby:

100 songs a night? WOW. are you kidding me? I usually play no more than 10-12 songs a set (45 min). Remember: Vocal patter with the audience between songs can be just as important as the music itself.

You ask: 'How do I remember all this'?: Well, by utilizing the PSR2000's Reg Memory Bank & Reg Sequence feature, you only have to remember to press ONE button: foot controler (triggering Reg Sequence increment). Certainly a lot easier than having to manually select/press all the different variation , style , and voice changes throughout the entire song. This is especially difficult (if not impossible) for those demanding hi paced production numbers. Playing on the fly has its benefits too though, especially for those casual gigs where you can stretch out and be more laid back and spontaneous.

I have about 30-40 core performance songs which I created custom Reg. Memorys for. AFter loading the assoc Reg Memory, I just need to remember to reset the Reg Sequence to #1 and begin playing (and singing) and only have to remember to trigger reg memory changes (via the foot controler) once at each song section change. This way I can FOCUS on playing the keyboard, singing and delivering the song to the audience rather than becoming a full time button pusher (yuck). Ok ok, I forgot, I admit that I also add a few multi pad & drum fill hits along the way to add spice as well.

Now that I've explained how I do this, I hope you guys understand better what I was getting at concerning the Reg Sequence/Reg Memory link problem thing I initated at the beginning of this thread.


- Scott

Yeah Scott...
I understand exactly how you are doing it because I do it similarly, but just don't use as many sequential registrations. And I don't have a foot controller so the main question you pose is out of my league.

It also sounds like Nobby could benefit by using Floppy registrations the way you and I do... I am not sure I understand exactly what you are saying Nobby. It sounds like you are loading styles via floppy then setting up the rest of your registrations manually. Is that right?

Eddie

Quote: Scottyee
100 songs a night? WOW. are you kidding me?
Scotty,
No I never sang 100 songs a night! But back in the 60's & 70's when played for dances we played about 3 to 3&1/2 hrs. We probably did about 12 to 15 an hour! That would be over 50 on a long night. We would take a couple 10 or 15 minute breaks a night! But at that time I played rythm guitar and sang! I new over 400 songs without the words in front of me,now I can't remember what did yesterday!!
Don't you have people request songs that maybe you didn't have setup ready to play?

I guess I'm doing fine the way I've been doing it.
I have my user area filled with styles.
All my song reg, setups are on floppies! Works!
I was just trying to find another method. I have so many good styls on floppies.
& you can't have your styles & registration
song setups both on floppy disk!
I have some room left in the user banks reg.
settings but I have never been able to pull up a style from a floppy and have the setup
with it. I'm sorry guys! Can anybody make any since out of what I'm talking about?
Thank You,
Nobby
PS: The way that I'm doing it now the only styles I can use are the preset & the ones I have loaded in the user area!


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[This message has been edited by Nobby (edited 05-03-2002).]

Nobby...
Now I understand better how you work. The answer still is to utilize the floppy to save registrations. I have crammed as many external styles and modifed styles into the onboard User memory...but that is maxed out now.

But, tonight's gig was another testimonial to setting up styles and styles for particular songs on floppy.

I had a real curve thrown at me. The place I played tonight usually likes a wide variety of music styles skewing toward 60's-70's rock. But for some reason tonight, I had request after request for big band and ballroom. I dug down deep into my floppy file and was able to accomodate most requests. Without that ability on the PSR 2000, I would have been in water over my head.

Eddie

That restriction is not just for you, Nobby, it's true for everyone. A registration file can not load a style from floppy. It can reference one of the preset styles or one of the styles in the user area. If someone focuses on using the registration buttons for their performances, they also face this style limitation. You can set up a registration that has your favorite voices and you can use them with any style whether loaded from floppy or not. Another alternative for players who have more styles than will fit in the USER area, is to set up genre floppies that could include favorite styles in that genre, plus the registrations that use them. You could then clear out the USER area, and load all of these styles from the disk and save them in the USER area. This way, you may have one set of styles/registrations for a young crowd and another for a more senior group.

I'm heading in a completely different direction.
(forced by the lack of what I need)

I am back to playing mostly bass and piano arrangements for requests, and using sequences and audio files (custom-made at home with arrangers and harmonizers)for tunes that need the "bulk" . I play more two handed piano parts, now that I CAN, and I have had MORE positive response this week, than I have had in a while.

I think I was kidding myself into trying to MAKE the 2000 fit my needs. It just can't. Not in it's current state, and I'm sure there will be no hardware upgrades on a piece at this price point.

Funny, how things go around in circles. I started using a Rhodes, a synth bass and a drum machine .... now I'm basically back to the same setup. The biggest change is the pc with all the sequenced stuff and audio files.

I think I'm going to hold out till someone REALLY gets it right. The G7 has a good enough mic input for my nursing home jobs, and I'm getting spoiled with the TC harmonizer at work, so I really don't miss much. There are advantages in the sounds on the newer models, but for a rhythm instrument - this keyboard is great. Wonderful piano, bass, drums, organ, & guitar. These are my staples, and all I really need to accompany my voice. I was never much of a melody player because I needed to play the chords with my right hand while I did the bass line, so I sing a lot. Maybe too much. 60 songs a night minimum, I'd guess. I don't drag them out too much, because I hate playing solos. Just little fills and licks .... between and around my vocal parts - that's all the "fluff" I need.

So, that's that ! Back to basics. More "playing" and less "playing around". It's really been a valuable lesson for me. I was getting bored listening to the auto stuff slowly taking over the show. NEVER AGAIN ! I AM FREE ! HALLELULIA !

Just give me a good solid drum beat, a nice round bass tone, and almost ANY chord sound and I can make it work. I miss some of the better, more expressive solo sounds that I've come to like(saxes, in particular), but I will start to record these at home, and just play piano and organ at the job.... like I was the piano player in a band.
HEY, what a concept!

If you have to remember which footpedal to push to change 8 registrations, and which sequence of buttons to push to set up the song, and which vocal setting you need, and which left hand sound ... and which this and that and which blah, blah, blah .......
TOO MUCH !
Sequence the damn thing, and PLAY the piano part. I'm not selling out - I still rather play the parts all by myself (WITHOUT the arranger) but when the crowd needs higher energy, a sequence is every bit as effective as an auto generated arrangement, and in most cases ....... I think it's even better. It's so much more convincing when the drums and bass are right, and not a generic pattern that ..."sorta" works.

I'm rambling again, I know. I do that, but here it is - almost summer and I'm headed into a very busy season with an antique set up .... and I'm excited about it ! I can't wait to feature more solo piano and solo guitar arrangements in my night. It's refreshing, and stimulating at the same time. I will use the arranger at home to produce the tracks I need, WHEN I need them -the rest of the time ...... I am the bass player again ! YIPPIE !
(Oh yeah, I'll be the piano player too....... but only because I HAVE to )

Joe...
Using your method here, could the styles that you wanted to delete or add to the User Memory be deleted or added in bulk...or would it have to be done one by one?
Eddie

[This message has been edited by Bsharp (edited 05-03-2002).]

Well, it’s really your choice (as an arranger keyboard player ) to determine ‘how much’ you allow the auto accomp stuff to take over. In arranger keyboard playing, ‘you’ are in control of how much auto accomp goes on. When I perform, I only use the auto accomp to supply the basic ryhthm section (drums and bass ) to backup my live keyboard playing & singing. I like to play the keyboard pretty much the same as if I were playing with a real live band combo. The auto accompaniment keyboard offers the performance flexibility not possible when playing along with a pre-arranged midi sequence.



Uncle Dave, I’m rather surprised hearing this from you, the senior seasoned ‘arranger’ keyboard player here. I thought the primary purpose of this forum and of arranger keyboard playing is to learn how to master all that you are complaining about here. I always found it odd that you don’t use one of the key features of an arranger KB: ‘Registration Memory’ & ‘Registration Sequence’. These were designed to eliminate all the button & foot pedal pushing you are complaining about, yet allow you the flexibility to add fills, change the harmonic chord progression, modulate (change key) , take extral chorus’ (if and when the audience energy calls for another chorus) , etc. and do this all ‘on the fly’ as well. This type of spontaneous live performance playing is just not possible when you are ‘locked in’ to playing along with a ‘pre-arranged’ karaoke like backup sequence.



Playing along with sequences has its place for certain cover tunes which demand it, but I still prefer the flexibility of live performance spontaniety that arranger keyboard style playing provides. The drums and bass may not be perfect on all the time, but the focus of the audience is on (hopefully) my playing & singing. The backup parts are there for just that: backup. I personally (on the PSR2000) haven’t encountered many problems with drum fills and bass lines not syncing up or sounding inappropriate. Drums & bass fills sounding right are partly dependant on triggering the fill button at the correct time.



I agree that playing solo piano or with with just a left hand walking bass) on a few tunes provides a refreshing constrast in a one man show, but I think arranger style keyboard playing is an important element which contributes to a successful one man band act because it provides a satisfying backup rhythm section which audiences appreciate. I think it’s more important that we learn to master the unique skills of arranger keyboard playing. The amount of auto accomp used is a delicate balance. It’s our job to determine how much auto accomp to use, and just not allow it to overtake our live playing & singing. Music is like cooking: a delicate balance of robust flavors, subtle seasoning, and textures. Uncle Dave, I fully appreciate and understand your need to getting back to playing a non arranger KB now, and I apolopgize if I was beginning to sound a little preachy, but I’m an avid defender of arranger keyboards and I’d hate to see you abandon arranger keyboards now. I think you really need to reconsider exploring how arranger keyboard playng might work for you. - Scott

I'm not abandoning any idea or instrument that can add to my life's work. I've just reached a point of "saturation" with the current offerings of arrangers. I was never a fan of the omm paa paa backings from the start, and while some of it is quite good, and useable - in the long run, the energy comes from my vision, and my hands - not the backings. I've stated before that bass & drums are the second and third most important elements to any arrangement (after the melody, of course)and I still believe this. Sequences, arrangers, sidemen - whatever automation we use can get OVER used very easily. I will never call myself an "Arranger keyboard" player. I use arrangers as a tool, and I can get around every make and model with relative ease, but I am PERFORMER - not an arranger player. The gimmics I use are just fluff - it all comes down to heart & soul. Two items that are missing from EVERY arranger keyboard.

I don't mean to slam the arranger players, but I was a one man band before any of the automatic stuff was around, and i can't get my head around any technique that takes the performer OUT of the mix.
Scott, your statements about moderation are right on target. We should all take a close "listen" to what we do when we play.
Don Mason records his performance almost every night - that's a great way to keep yourself "honest". It's so easy to lie to yourself and start believing that the instrument is more vital than the instrumentalist. Many of my clients already think that! They compliment the gear as much as they compliment me ........ but that's a whole other issue.

Being a performer is my thing. Sometimes I use acoustic instruments, sometimes I use arrangers or sequencers, and sometimes I DJ. It really doesn't make a whole lot of difference to me, HOW I reach the crowd. The important thing is that I know what to do, and when to do it. That has kept me working since 1969 in a crazy, misunderstood business filled with beauty and wonder that continues to amnaze me each night.

I did a Communion party this afternoon, and a little third grader came up to me and asked if I was Allison Boyd's Daddy. Proudly, I said yes ! It's moments like that that keep me in check. I thought I was a total stranger to the crowd until that moment. Life is funny, ain't it?

Scott:
If Yamaha changed it so that the registration sequence reset when you went to Reg-1, I think you would suddenly hear complaints from people that are using it successfully the way it is. I dont use the sequence function, but I know that when they change things that aren't broke it always messes me up. I had my PSR500 in for service years ago, and when I got it back they had put the new OS in it... I couldn't stand it. I sent it back so they could put the old OS back in it.

Anybody else notice that Uncle Dave is starting to sound like Julian Colbeck from the PSR9000 Pro review in EM?

Midnite

Hey! Who is this Colbek character anyway ??
(I haven't read the article - is it fovorable or not?)
How are we the same?

I think you’re completely wrong. The Reg Seq & Reg Memory button settings (1-8) need to be linked directly to each other. Currently, when you change the Reg Sequence’s 1-8 registrations via the next/back buttons, the Reg Memory buttons change accordingly. It only makes logical sense that the reverse (selecting a Reg Memory button directly and subsequently having the Reg Seq setting change too) work the same way.

As far as people possibly complaining about what (to me) is obviously a bug fix, using the ‘Reg Sequence’ feature itself is optional, and can be easily turned on or off as desired.



Well, I say it ‘is’ broke. All the other arrangers I’ve played allow you to do this. Since you don’t even use the Reg Seq function , fixing it shouldn’t mess you up. I challenge anyone who uses the Reg Sequence feature the way it works now, to give me one good reason to leave it the way it is. How will changing it (as I described) cause any problems? Midnite: Perhaps it’s because you don’t even use the Reg. Sequence function, that you don’t understand. Frankly, I’m certain that this problem (bug) was actually just an oversite, and never intended by Yamaha. Unfortunately, whether they’d admit it or not though, is another story, because to correct this would be costly for Yamaha, especially since flash rom upgradeability is no longer a PSR2000 option.

- Scott


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http://scottyee.com


[This message has been edited by Scottyee (edited 05-06-2002).]

UD, here's a link to my thread where I quoted excerpts from an article (Electronic Musician: May 2002) written by Mr Colbeck, where he voices his views about arrangers keyboards.
http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/Forum37/HTML/003526.html

Favorable? It depends on your perspective.

- Scott

Sorry for the delay in responding; I've just been catching up on some forum messages. You do not need to copy one file at a time. When you select COPY, the next question is what to copy. ALL is an option (I don't have my keyboard in front of me, so I am responding from memory). If you select ALL, all the files are highlighted. Move from the USER area to Floppy (or vice versa) and press PASTE. All the files will be copied. If you wanted to copy just four files, select COPY, then select the four files, then select OK, then go where you want to put them and select PASTE.