Just one more thing..... in response to an earlier post, unless you are doing 50's and early 60's music, I must confess i HATE listening to short slap-back delay on vocals, especially bands that put it on and leave it on for every song. I would much rather do without than have it on all the time.

Just think about what echo does (it sets the cues for how big a singing environment is supposed to be) and then think about how small a room the slap-back echo is telling the listener they are in....... In most small clubs, the room itself is providing that cue to the listener (you can't hear it because your monitors overpower the room, but it's there) and adding slap-back just confuses the effect.

Far better to use a BIG echo just occasionally, and rely on a small amount of plate reverb for general ambience (it's bright and splashy, and usually doesn't tend to 'mush' up the sound. And it's always worth looking for a mixer that allows you to put a bit MORE reverb and echo in the monitors compared to out front. You listen to most board tapes, you'll usually hear a band put too much echo and reverb on the vocals because at higher volumes it is harder to hear the subtle reverb, but that is all you probably REALLY need, so to help the singer, add a little extra to the vocal monitors, help them feel comfortable.....

Interesting subject indeed.
For all these years I've used a reverb that sounds good to my ears, plus delay that I always customize, so that it has one repeat only, barely separated from the original. Not loud enough to be intrusive, but enough to fatten the vocal.
Since I've had the Bose pa, I have reduced the effects greatly. Bose recommends that you use NO effects on the vocal and set the L1 processor to the type mic you are using. I've yet to come full circle and do that, but I find I can greatly reduce what I was used to hearing for so long, and get positive response from the audiences.
DonM

NO echo on the vocals......? Are Bose trying to change the way pop music has been recorded and performed for the last 50 years? Perhaps they would prefer if you don't use any chorus on your guitar?! Or any overdrive?

I understand that the Bose system is a very different way of doing public address, but trying to dictate how you should sound is a bit extreme! Echo on vocals is more (much more!) than just room compensation - or should be! - it is a spacious effect used widely by almost every recorded singer out there..... Try to imagine Led Zeppelin without the vocal echoes, or Coldplay, or Peter Gabriel.....

I agree that echo shouldn't be used as room simulation, but it's use as a vocal effect is essential to almost any style......

Glenn, I still have an Echoplex which hasn't been used for years (don't even know if it still works). Also, I have a friend, Bob Burrus,owner of the Burrus Tone Shop, who builds high-end tube amplifiers. Recently, he duplicated the Scotty Moore amplifier, used on early Elvis recordings, with a built-in tape echo. The original one-off wqas presented to Scotty by Bob at a recent birthday.

I remember I became a tape changing "quick-time" expert in the days of the "black box".

Ah the memories...


Russ

[This message has been edited by captain Russ (edited 10-30-2006).]

The EchoPlex was the device that gave me the courage to sing, around 1975 or so.
Diki, Bose was speaking of the room ambience not special effects that are part of your sound.
DonM

Well, I stand corrected. That's good advice for ANY type of PA. I can't tell you how many bands and solo acts ruin their sound with too much reverb and echo. If you need THAT much, just put it in your monitors.......

The guys that sing folk music in Greece (think country & western) are ALL putting so much echo, it sounds like they sing from the other side of a canyon. It is disgusting.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by captain Russ:
[B]Glenn, I still have an Echoplex which hasn't been used for years (don't even know if it still works). Also, I have a friend, Bob Burrus,owner of the Burrus Tone Shop, who builds high-end tube amplifiers. Recently, he duplicated the Scotty Moore amplifier, used on early Elvis recordings, with a built-in tape echo. The original one-off wqas presented to Scotty by Bob at a recent birthday.

I remember I became a tape changing "quick-time" expert in the days of the "black box".

Ah the memories


Russ:
Think I got mine in the 60's. It's lurking around here somewhere, The tape came off and havn't used it in probably 25 years, don't know If mine would still work also?
Ahh yes the memories.............pose