In Europe, it appears to be a done deal; now how do we get the US up to speed in this field? Currently, workstations (which in many cases demand more work) are what dominate this market ... for now.

Your input/suggestions are welcomed.

Thanks,

AJ

AJ, it is not as difficult as it appears..

Music stores...especially the large chain stores, have to have trained , open minded sales people...In all sales , we need to know our products and the competition 's products..

All of the major stores frown on stocking the Top of the line arrangers...why, because they don't know how to sell them...

The US stores need to take a page from the old organ sales days..that is being able to sell the "sizzle and not the steak"..

There is such a large market that is untapped...primarily the over 40 customer...and it is not limited to the home user..

If the arranger keyboards were shown/demo to working keyboardist, in a way that would show the benefits in an all in one keyboard..it can change things..

You would find the stigma of "auto" play, diminished, when one can see the many ways an arranger can be used professionally..

It has to start with the salesperson..
The US market has to be educated, and the big stores have to be willing to step it up...hire the right people and bring in the right people to train the sales force...

Maybe the Roland, Yamaha, Korg, Gem and Ketron companies have to get involved in this training..

If you think I am wrong....just go into any chain store, and ask to see a top model arranger...first you are lucky to find one, if you find one I will bet you , there will be no one to properly sell the instrument..

Right now in the US, most musicians misunderstand the value of arrangers..they are thinking , "little Susie's Casio toy"..

Once in a while we get a chance to show off our arranger keyboards to other musicians...and it becomes an eye opener to them[they are truly amazed]...now if the stores were equipped to do their part..this can come about..

As a side line , we only have to look at our Keyboard mags and see even at this level....they just do not know......

Americans are obessed with celebrity, so an arranger keyboard endorsement by widely recognized respected musicians would bring added legitimacy and interest in arrangers by the american keyboard buying public (both enthusiast & pro alike). For example:

Quincy Jones
Chick Corea
Harry Connick Jr.
Elton John
Rick Wakeman
Stevie Wonder
Keith Emerson
Norah Jones
Scott Yee

Ok, ok, I couldn't resist. the last one is perhaps more wishful thinking.

Scott

TO post, I am paraphrasing Scott Yee:


Originally posted by Scottyee:


ALMOST EVERYONE
is obessed with celebrity, so an arranger keyboard endorsement by widely recognized respected musicians would bring added legitimacy and interest in arrangers by the
NO MATTER WHAT COYNTRY
keyboard buying public (both enthusiast & pro alike). For example:

Quincy Jones
Chick Corea
Harry Connick Jr.
Elton John
Rick Wakeman
Stevie Wonder
Keith Emerson
Norah Jones
Scott Yee
SYNTHZONE MEMBERS
(excluding me)

Ok, ok, I couldn't resist. the last one is perhaps IS wishful thinking.

Theodore


Now that is my opinion. The reason auto makers participate in races is that they want to cram in the public's brain that "if they buy the winning xxxx model, they too will kick butt."

I agree with the above posters also,
a percentage of byers would like a "lots of action with the minimum knowledge" musical instrument, and the arrangers does exactly that, and I am thankful for whoever invented them.

Some others require a TOOL for working with, a sort of musical Swiss knife/Leatherman. A top arranger can do this. The salesmen have to be trained to identify who needs a thing to play along and who needs something to work with, and start from there.

Theodore

[This message has been edited by trident (edited 01-26-2006).]

Great post really the arranger type Keyboard have a Special people to play with it like some one that need a band all the time but not have the musicians. In USA we have a lot of musicians and all want to be in a Band or group and a small group of musicians use the Arrangers for be a 1 man band. I dont know maybe this is the reazon for the US market did not "Awaken" to the Arranger move. This is only my point of view.

Sack

This is my assumptions. Look at the standard musical instrument store. You walk past, in the window there are instruments in the window,if you have an interest you walk in, its quiet, DEAD.Someone approaches you then its up to the salesmen.
Lets look at a different scenario (where possible) you are walking along the road,mall, and you HEAR a keyboard/organ being proffessionally played, you may not see him at this time but you are drawn towards it as also are many others. Outside a store there is a keyboard/organ set up and played really well giving a demonstration to the crowd,and explaining how easy it is to learn and sound good.I reckon this attitude will draw more people into the store, even if you at first had no intention of buying a keyboard.The more successful a store becomes the more quality stock they will get. I believe its all about demo,s by experienced people. mike

PS i just realised that i have been saying the same as Fran, also in every area there are piano/keyboard teachers who could be taught to demo in the stores on weekends and also offer lessons.

[This message has been edited by nardoni2002 (edited 01-27-2006).]

[This message has been edited by nardoni2002 (edited 01-27-2006).]

Hi,
I am dubious about this. Elton John is a great pianist. It's more likely that his keyboardist do a show with arranger keyboards.
In most cases these celebreties play workstation keyboards (like Peter Gabriel who plays Korg).

The local bands use workstation. Therefore I had thought arrangers were for home and amateur players before I stepped upon the SynthZone. Moreover, the only places I can see an arranger in use are crappy bars and restaurants.

Fran is right that the salespersons are not educated. The local ones don't do any sort of advertisement of what they sell. They do not store mid- and high- end keyboards (or store single units). The low-ends are overpriced - partly due to the local tax but mostly because they sell better and the seller's greed.

I was quite surprised when they praised themselves for selling a PSR-1500. In the same time there was a PSR-9000 collecting dust in the store which they were selling for 2000 Euros (in December 2003).

By using such strategy they keep most of the potential buyers away (me too).

George

PS Oops! not December 2003 but 2004. sorry.

[This message has been edited by George V (edited 01-27-2006).]

I first saw an arranger keyboard at a workshop for praise bands given by Maranatha Music, a contemporary Christian music publishing company. They had a Roland rep there and he had a G 800. This was about 10 years ago. He demonstrated to the group that the keyboard could be used as a whole band. At the time I was doing my OMB with left hand bass, right hand playing and a drum machine. I went to my local music dealer and of course he didn't have one so I had him order it for me. It forever changed the way I do things. The demo is the way to go. I used to demonstrate organs in the old days and that really worked. People would get all excited and buy it on the spot. It would be nice to see them catch on here.

Joe

------------------
Songman55
Joe Ayala

More years ago than I would like to admit, I was playing a 12-string guitar along with a programable Roland drum machine. My first encounter with an arranger keyboard sent my head reeling, and I couldn't believe this incredible machine selling for just $500 would do so much. By today's standards it was a piece of junk, but back then it was a gift from heaven.

I fully agree with Fran. Walk into any store, and more often than not a top end music store, and the person behind the counter doesn't know Jack Sh*t about any of the arranger keyboards in the building.

Nearly a decade ago, when my daughter announced she was getting married and the entire free world was invited to the wedding, I decided to take on a part time (40-hours-a-week) job to help defray some of the expense. I went to work at BJ's Wholesale Club in Abingdon, Maryland during their Christmas season, primarily selling cnsumer electronics such as computers, TVs, VCRs, and yes arranger keyboards--they had a half dozen on display.

Selling the computers and TVs was a snap, but the only way you can sell a keyboard is to demonstrate its use. That's exactly what I did. Not only did I manage to sell every keyboard in the store's inventory (about 100 of them), other stores shipped in their unsold keyboards after Christmas season ended and I sold several hundred more during the next few months.

Manufacturers don't take the time to educate dealers and sales people about the intricacies of their keyboards, which I consider a major mistake. However, with the exception of a few, George Kay and Dan01, there are very few dealers that take the time to explore the inner workings of keyboards they sell. The irony of this is most of todays top end keyboards will do a lot more than anyone can imagine, but no one will ever know about it unless they visit forums such as the Synthzone, SVPworld and PSR Tutorial .

Good Luck,

Gary

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Travlin' Easy

While I agree with most of your observations, I must also bring up that some of us are at least partly responsible for the fact that the stores don't carry much in the way of arrangers.
How many times have we sought out a dealer and demoed his merchandise, then went back home and bought one over the internet to save money?
It does take money to properly train and compensate a good salesman. It's my belief that in the not-too-distant future there will be only a single handful of music stores in the U.S. Almost all of the individually-owned stores will be forced out of business by the huge internet stores, much as Walmart has caused so many small businesses in small towns to close. The reason for this is that the huge stores can operate on a volume that allows them to make less profit on an individual sale, particulary when they don't have a huge staff of highly-trained sales people.
I have discussed this very situation with my local store. Their point of view is "Why should we invest thousands of dollars in these keyboards when we can use that same money to buy other items on which we can make a much higher profit?"
It takes longer to educate a customer and properly demo an arranger than it does a 7-foot grand piano. One grand piano sale can make the store more money than 25 arranger sales, particularly in the low-end price range of arrangers.
I am told that some of the manufacturers have taken steps to try to make the small stores more competitive in recent years, but it may be too little, too late.
Gary, I also spent some time at the store years ago, selling the early arrangers and organs. At that time you could price a Yamaha PSR 5700, or a PSR70 at a point where the store, the salesman and Yamaha could all make money. If you try to do that now, the customer is savvy enough to go to Sam's Club or Circuit City and buy a WK3200 for $299., or scour the internet for the best deal, with free delivery and no sales tax, AFTER you have spent a couple hours selling him. For sure Circuit City has no one that even knows how to turn the WK on, much less compare the features to something like a Tyros 2, but guess how will sell more keyboards?
This most certainly isn't the entire problem, but I feel it contributes greatly to it.
DonM