Changing people's attitudes towards arrangers is a daunting task.
In Yamaha's case,these instruments are designed and sold primarily with the hobbyist in mind.The Tyros is simply an enhanced PSR...it lacks true pro features like balanced line outs,expandability etc.The PSR-9000 pro was the only exception.
Approaching Elton John or Billy Joel or any other keyboard celebrity won't make any difference...they wouldn't be caught dead using one.
Piano players usually resist using an arranger as they need to learn a new and different method for left hand chording.Not very many players want to sacrifice a left hand technique that took them years to develop to have to learn another one so that they can use an arranger.Former organ players have less of a learning curve.
The only real difference between the "arranger" and the "workstation" is the auto-accompaniment...otherwise they have similar features...some workstations now feature phrase recording,using preset licks much like style parts in auto-accompaniment,so the line is blurring somewhat.
Arrangers need a serious revamp in "user style creation"...most players find it too difficult, or the scope of creating a user style is too narrow. It should be easy to make a midi into a style,without the use of external software...some Casio arrangers had this feature....it should be on all arrangers and it should be very easy to use.
Screen information could be further improved for style creation as well....and in the case of Yamaha mega voices...it should be easier to revoice parts that use these voices....a lot sound poor when a non mega is used...SA voices will further compound this problem.
The 61-note versus 76/88-note debate could easily be solved by offering the arranger as a module that could be attached to optional keyboards of varying sizes made to use with it.Simple?
....probably too simple.
Ian

A very interesting post, however I doubt if anything will change on this front, as the days of the Hardware Arranger/Workstation are seriously limited. (In 5 years or so I would say that they will just be a distant memory)
The reason for this is, yes you’ve guessed it the computer, so in the future you will purchase your keyboards as laid out below.
All manufactures will produce keyboards with different layouts of Buttons and Screens, with all variations of keyboard size/feel, you the customer will then purchase the one you feel happy with, all the keyboards will have one thing in common, a standard computer interface that will work with any software arranger/workstation, but they will look and operate just like the old Hardware Arranger/Workstations, (As they are just keyboards they will be stocked in both Workstation and Arranger shops) you will then choose what software instrument(s) you require, such as Tyros, Motif, G70, SD1, Triton etc, then you or the shop owner will load the instrument(s) in, and away you go. (If you want more then one software instrument, then you will just purchase it and load it in)
The future is closer than you think.
Just thought I would give you something else to ponder over.

Bill

Wouldn't that be nice....hopefully not too far away.
Hardware arranger/workstations are certainly sruggling to be all things for all people.
Ian

Bill,
I see you state this opinion in several threads. While I do not disagree with you, these sowftware arrangers have a serious negative side from my hobbyist viewpoint. Here is why:

- Software arrangers run on expensive ($1000 and up) computer configurations. Having in mind the speed in which computers and software arrangers develop I will have to upgrade my home computer on every 2 years. If I ran software arrangers on a laptop it would be even more expensive.

- Controllers will continue to change to meet software arranger's novelties. This means I'll have to spend on a new controller regularly.

- Software price. Software stability is questionable. Computer Operating System stability is also questionable.

- Sound palette price.

With hardware arrangers I spend about 500 euros each 2 years if I want to keep up-to-date with the current keyboards. I can sell my old keyboard to refund a bit of this money. There is no need to upgrade my computer if I want to get a high-end keyboard.

I do believe that hardware arrangers and workstations won't disappear in 5 years. There will be people like me who wouldn't like to depend on computers too much.

George

George: the thing about investing in a computer for music is that it's unlikely you'll use it exclusively for that. I bought a new laptop last fall for running Reason and playing softsynths with but I use it for a hundred other things too. Also you get more technology for your money when you buy a computer rather than a keyboard. That is why software arrangers will eventually come to fruition is because so laptops are coming down in price and many people will own one for other uses anyway.

What may really make an impact on the market would be an arranger controller/software package that are designed to work together. Something like a controller made especially to go with OMB for example. Or a rompler that can be expanded into an arranger when combined with a laptop and dedicated software.

Esh,
I totally agree with you.
On the other hand, a software arranger will fall far beyond my needs and spending that amount of money would be unjustified.

George

[This message has been edited by George V (edited 01-30-2006).]

From what little I know it seems to me arrangers are fine for people who want to make music in more common genres but when it comes to more obscure genres like New Wave or Darkwave or Industrial or whatever Arrangers , even top of the line models just don't have enough sounds for that and lack the styles for it .

So a person who wants to make such music would have to rely on Synths either hardware or software .

A song from "Fiddler On the Roof" comes to mind when I try to answer AJ's question. That song or phrase from a song is "Tradition".

Europe still has strong ethnic and regional traditions when it comes to music. Even the accordion is somewhat still popular there. If you were to look at the Ketron line they include a multitude of those popular European styles in their arrangers.

In the good ole U.S.A. we have very few musical traditions on which we can hold. The people that used to request "In The Mood" or "Misty" are all over the hill, in nursing homes, or dead. They now want "Who Let the Dogs Out" or Rap or some other new musical fad. Ok Ok I know that there are exceptions to that statement but over all I think it is true.

I played a party this summer and there was an excellent trombone player there from Orlando Florida. He saw what my Tyros would do and said, "You could make a lot of money with that in Florida". Why is that? Because Florida is God's waiting room that's why.

From what I've seen the only music that crosses the line between young and old is country. Don Mason can probably attest to this. Even though some of the older country fans do not like the current country.

We as musicians and the manufacturers of our instruments should be setting our sites on songs from the 60's. This market nitch now has all the kids out of the house and has disposable income to spend on live music. They don't want to spend their disposable income on "Moonlight Seranade". They want to hear the songs that were popular when they were young. Songs by the Beatles, Stones, Doors, Turtles, etc.

The big band, latin, and jazz standards have no tradition among these 60's baby boomers. As the American population continues to age these styles will become almost extinct.

Tom

Let's hope you're wrong, Tom. A few years ago the stand-up bass and Hammond B3 were 'almost extinct'. Rod Stewart is raking in the $$ with now, I believe, his 4th CD... and other recording artists are jumping on this bandwagon of introducing a new generation to the standards. The really good music will prevail through the ages.

Absolutely true, GlennT. A new radio station just started in Edmonton and the playlist is a mix of standards mixed in with some modern pop in about a 70/30 ratio.

I hadn't realised just how many pop singers are 'doing a Rod Stewart' and releasing albums of old standards - even Robbie Williams, who really has a handle on the genre. Then add in more young fellas like Michael Buble, Jamie Cullum, Matt Dusk and you'll find there's no shortage of talent. Even Steven Tyler of Aerosmith is getting played with a version of Smile which, incidentally, grates on my ears, and also Bryan Ferry who seems to be shaping up to be the next Tiny Tim, fer crying out loud.

There's a new crop of 'devotees' to the old standards that's made up of people who grew up in the 80's and over the last couple of years have turned on to lounge music (I can remember discovering jazz/standards myself in my thirties).

I think, regardless of generation, a good melody still has a place in music, and long may that continue to be the case.