The point is when a potential arranger customer demos an arranger keyboard, they hear waltz,big band, tango, rhumba,etc., and think, OH!! This is for the older crowd, this is not an instrument meant for me. Then they move on to other boards. If the arranger was filled with Rock, Hip Hop, dance, music. They would think, wow, this is a cool instrument. Waltzes and tango could be loaded from disk, if that is what an old guy would want.
I am an old guy!!! (58) and I NEVER use waltz, tango, rhumba. I use pop and ballad styles, and use downloaded styles more often then the onboard styles. So, my arranger, was not designed for me either!!
Starkeeper



[This message has been edited by Starkeeper (edited 02-10-2006).]

Yep. It's called youth.

With young people, it's all in what they perceive. If they see it as for playing "old music," they discount its value to them. Silly, yes. But true.

And it's not just styles. It's kickass drums, kickass bass, kickass guitars. Probably other factors that I can't even think of. Whatever you could build into a board to make rock, pop, country styles shine. Cosmetics also matter.

------------------
Bill
Yamaha PSR2000

Yeah, one word says a lot, especially about social attitudes. I was sad to see that you are from Canada; looks like the disease is spreading.
---------------------------------

So Starkeeper, are you saying that the very presence of "old" styles on a keyboard would be a turnoff to younger musicians, even if the styles they wanted were also on it??? Why???? BTW, I'm an ol' fart too, and like you, never use the "old" styles you mentioned, but I'm not particularly bothered by the fact that they're there. Who knows, maybe one day when I'm an even older fart, I'll come to like them.

Peace,

chas

Great sounds and great styles that could cover both "old" and "new" music. And then market it; market it; market it!! You know with the same vigger you market a workstation. Put it in most if not all of the major music stors.

Just think if they had a keyboard with the sounds, effects and expantion capability of the Motif but with the styles of Tyros 2 and promote it with the same vigger as you would promote the Motif.

Along with the other suggestions I made on this topic, just maybe the US market would be hip to arrangers.

It seems to me that very proficient players like Chick Corea, Rick Wakeman, Keith Emerson, etc., would have no reason to use an arranger keyboard. When they play solo piano, it's so good that you don't miss any kind of accompaniment. A player at that level just doesn't need the arranger kybrd. The arranger keyboards are great for playing at the local level but I've never seen a national act, (particularly jazz), using them unless I'm not watching the right groups. Later, Ray

I am inclined to agree about the type of styles issue. My experience and frustration with styles has forced me to dig in and learn the instrument and to teach myself to make my own...mostly I edit the factory styles,swapping parts around and using the Groove&Dynamics function in Yamaha's Style Creator.
Rather than wait for Yamaha and third party stylemakers to make fresh styles,I chose to do something about it...the Style Creator is made to be used by non-professionals and is pretty easy to use.I only make styles for my own use,the jazz styles being the most difficult to create,but I still manage it....and I don't have a degree in music.
Learn how to make the most of what you have.
That leads me to another point I wish to make.......... none of Yamaha arrangers are designed for professional use,including the Tyros and Tyros 2.
The target market for these instruments is the amateur player and/or the hobbyist,and Yamaha is selling all they can make...here in Canada they are always on back order.
Some pros are resourceful enough to use them to make money....they make the most of what they're given to work with.
If there is such a big demand for more contemporary styles,why aren't the third party stylemakers addressing this markert? Maybe,just maybe,there aren't enough requests for these styles....or not enough demand to make it worth doing them.

Ian

heya im kinda new here... wanted to ask you, what do u mean about changing left hand technique?
also u talk about moduling a keyboard, does PSR3000 can be moduled to other keyboards? roland made? also wanted to ask ya as a one who 'aint know how to play yet at all, should i start with PSR3000 or RD-700SX.. thnx

already posted something about me buying new keyboard so im almost sure about the PSR3000, but im dieing to put my hands on a RD-700SX

This is a very interesting thread.

I agree with most of the factors other posters have mentioned, including...

1. top model not stocked in stores
2. no knowledgable salesmen
3. limited styles market (however, you can some ethnic styles CDs for ebay)

In my opinion, the reason the professional musicians (who use workstations), do not like arrangers, is NOT because it has autoaccompainants. It's the very true reason that the top arrangers are not really professional workstations+arrangers. If you look at all of the top arrangers, you will see that not ALL features of workstations are available on arrangers. I think the arranger functionality has to complementry. It should be something added on top of the top-workstation. The top arrangers cost more than workstations anyway.

They have to start with the workstation, and build arranger on top of that. This way all of the features and possibilities of workstation are available on the arragner.

For example, check the YAMAHA arrangers. No professional musician will use it's sequencer. It's a pathetic sequencer. Forces the musician to record with styles. ( I know, I know, it has that song recorder, but as I have debated a long time ago, it's not good at all) Why didn't they just put MOTIF sequencer?

Same issues with KORG, ROLAND....

I think this is the main reason the workstation users will not consider an arranger at this point of time.

[This message has been edited by Shakil (edited 02-11-2006).]

If you play a piano,your left hand is providing the bass and rhythm chords and moving all the time as you play..With an arranger you must make a chord by holding down keys in a designated area of the keyboard. This will trigger the autoaccompaniment section which will then play a background based on the chord and allows you to play a melody in the right hand.Ideally,your left hand should remain on the notes....holding them down.
If you want to learn to play piano,get a RD-700SX or a Yamaha P-140.
If you want to have fun and play for a hobby or amusement...get the PSR-3000.
I was referring to a module version of the PSR-3000 as something I wish they would make.


Ian

Pardon my ignorance about arranger keyboards, but what do they do that midi files, cakewalk, band in a box,power tracks etc. can't do? With those programs the sounds available are terrific. It must be a personal preference to use one system over the others, not because one is better than the other. Scott and others on this forum are pros using arranger keyboards, but I've seen more groups using synths and PCs and getting the same results. Later, Ray

[This message has been edited by raymb1 (edited 02-11-2006).]