I assembled a cropped version of Scott Yee Genesys photo, plus the specs, plus George Kaye's preview and studied it several times. This keyboard is clearly an advance is sound quality, ergonomics, and integration. But what impresses me the most is the many different ways of having fun with this keyboard.

Play an MP3 with lyrics file (which you can create on the Genesys), remove the vocals, replace with you own vocals (with harmony) and paly along while reading lyrics on the large display, and record the result to harddisk, then make your own CD. I think this keyboard might be a good way to get kids and students involved in music production.

I know I can play SMF files on my computer, but I like to play them on my PSR-8000 and play along. With the Genesys I can use .kar files and read the lyrics to boot.

Play at a wedding gig or party and provide a CD of selected performances at the party's end. During breaks in a gig, the CD player is available through the same sound system for continuous music.

Clif,
There are programs to easily convert .kar to .mid/with lyrics files. The best I've found is GNmidi. Incidentally, the PSR2000 reads .kar files without conversion, as does the PA80. I would expect Yamaha to add this function to the 9000 and Pro via upgrade, but I guess they haven't yet.
The GEM is indeed an intriquing instrument.
Donnie,
I used the 9000 and powered speakers only a few times. No problems other than only one mic input.
DonM

Don,

The Barbetta Sona 32 Pro Combo amps I use http://www.barbetta.com/Live/Sona_32/sona_32.html

There are more then enough inputs/outputs, EQ's to create a very nice sound and eliminate the use of a mixer. Use 2 Sona 32's and have twice the fun!

Thanks, Don(s)

I overlooked the .kar feature on the PSR-2000 and PA-80. I know about GNMidi, but I appreciate anything that helps me avoid a conversion step.

Clif

Donnie,

The keyboard is said to be about 55 lbs, but with the shape of it, you have to figure another 25 or more lbs for a case (I don't think it will go well in a regular box-shaped one). I know you mentioned before that you like carrying heavy things to gigs, but I draw the line at 50 lbs carry weight.

Regards,
Alex

[This message has been edited by Alex K (edited 01-28-2002).]

Why not just use a small hard disk recorder for recording ? vs. the way they present the Genisis ? just my opinion .
I play midi sequences off my SD1 ( very happy with sound quality) . Add my harmonized parts via harmonizer . I am not so sure that having all this on the keyboard is a good thing . How much ? Over $3000.00 . How well will it extract the vocal parts from a CD or MP3 ? You also can not edit individual tracks of an audio CD or MP3 . Is that correct ? dano

DanO,

Clearly this functionality is not to replace a full functional studio But to complement it. For example, so many times I have to create a quick audio cd from the keyboard and I have less than an hour. Having CDR on the keyboard and the functionality to support it is very helpful.

Transfering audio part to the studio via a cd is sometimes preferrable than real-time transfer.

I do not see this keyboard as a mini-studio. I see it as a keyboard with new functionality to support those who already have a studio and do studio work. For sk880ps with all options: I paid close to $3000. If users in this forum are happy to pay $3000 for Yamaha PSR9Kpro, I think this is worth it.

surely removing the vocals from an audio cd or mp3 is just manufacturer's bulls***?

this is done by antiphasing the channels and requires a vocal of pure mono, which they never are.

I have not come across a decent track yet where you can remove a vocal without leaving harmonic and dsp artifacts and leaving a very phasey and echoy bathroom sounding instrumental.

It seems to me that the CDR was added primarily as a way of transferring data to and from the internal hard disk. Once the decision was made to include the CDR drive, then someone must have given some thought of what else could be done with it. While many of the advances in the Genesys are geared toward quality and convenience, the vocal removal aspect appears more geared toward home entertainment. This is just a fun feature that GEM added because they could without too much expense. It does not have to be perfect to be fun. If it were perfect, it would still have little commercial use due to copyright restrictions.
As something that could be added for more fun at little cost, I think the karaoke features are a plus.

Arranger enthusiasts are familiar with the weird mentality that adding a feature somehow diminished the value of an instrument. I think if Korg or Kurzweil added arranger features (which could be turned off) to their Triton or K2600, respectively, they would sell less well. However, I think this reflects badly on the customer base. In this case, GEM has included karaoke features in a keyboard--so does that make it better or worse?

Once you cross that 40-44lb mark the "bulk-factor" increases ...... a lOT. At 50 lbs the PSR9000 was a bear to manipulate, any higher is just not smart packaging.
I'm going to need a lot of convincing to even audition this one. I have never found a Gem product that pleased me with sounds or ease of use. They don't sell well in my part of the world either. On the US East coast - you never see them in operation....or even in the stores, for that matter.
Sounds like another "Wersi-wannabee" in other words - big, expensive, and nobody wants them.

Alex,

<> "I know you mentioned before that you like
Carrying heavy things to gigs"<<>>

Its not that I "like" to carry heavy equipment to a gig, but I won't sacrifice quality and performance convenience in a KB just for a few pounds at this time. Especially coming thru the last 30+ years of "evolution" performing with much heavier keyboards and amps such as a Hammond B3, Leslie tone cabinets, Fender Rhodes, Big baffle PA speakers and Mixers etc. With a 300+ yearly gig schedule I'm always looking to "Lighten up". Bottom line is what you sound like, not what your rig weighs. I guess we'll see what the KB "Arranger Gods" bring us in the future.


donny

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 01-29-2002).]

My understanding is that Genesys will replace the WK/SK series. That means that their are new series coming, one of them probably will include:

1) smaller speakers
2) no extra options
3) less weight
4) less expensive

But the same quality of sounds and styles.

I vote today to introduce a new term:

40-44lb

to be defined as Uncle Dave Threshold. From now on, I will be faithfully using this term.

Donny,

I meant no disrespect. In fact, I have the highest regard for you and other members of this forum, especially the professional musicians (who make music their full-time occupation). I play an average of 2-3 gigs a month, but even with this light a schedule I find that my Roland G1000 is on the heavy side. I am sure weight is so much more of a concern to someone like you.

My point is that with all the sound being made electronically, you do not need the instrument to be heavy to sound good. I for one will have to forgo a slightly better sound in favor of something more useable. Granted, the speakers will remain the heavy component, but IMHO this model is clearly intended for home studios, rather than as a portable instrument to address the needs of gigging musicians. I think GEM will really need to come up with another model, which is lighter, smaller, (cheaper), and has a more packageable form factor.

Clif, SK88User,

I had expressed my opinion about the usefulness of the CD-R (not even RW) drive elsewhere in this forum. I also think that for a guy doing a single at a wedding it is totally impractical to make a CD of the wedding's music. However, if that is your schtick, there are plenty of relatively inexpensive, very portable devices on the market today which can do this, without adding the extra bulk to your keyboard at all those times when you would rather not have them.

For me a perfect gigging instrument would have

1. Great styles
2. Great sounds (expandable sound set) with high polyphony (128 note+)
3. CompactFlash card slots (2-3) for user stuff, backups, sound samples, etc.
4. 76 keys in a compact case (a la SD-1)
5. Removable tiltable speakers with integrated no wire connection, with about 20 Watt per side
6. Weight of about 35 lbs
7. Optionial hard drive
8. Extremely usable, efficient navigation with short learning curve.
9. USB/USB2 connections to computer, external keyboard, digital audio out, etc.
10. On-board harmonizer.

I would venture to say that a price would not be a deciding factor if all the other features were there for me. However, this instrument would not need to be very expensive because of all the gimmicks which I would leave out:

A. CD-R drive
B. Floppy drive
C. On-board sampling (could accept sampled waveform files in standard formats on CF card, but no creation of sampled files)
D. MP3 player
E. Color screen
F. LARGE speakers
G. Many analog controllers and non-motorized sliders (A motorized slider worksurface could be connected via USB, if desired).

In short, keep the essential core functions, and allow connections to expand on them if desired.

Regards,
Alex