To follow up, and believe me, I'm not trying to be a smartass here, unless you're Barbara Dennerlin (sp), it is very difficult to get anything more than a basic foundation out of pedal bass. That's why literally all the great jazz organist played left-hand bass, using the pedalboard only to add a little visual pizazz and put some "attack" on the bass note. And this was true even with the handful that were proficient on the pedals.

Good for ballads, waltzes, and 2/4; not much else. JMO.

chas

...And yes, I spent 1300.00 for a PK7 pedalbord to compliment my Nord C1. Why? Because I'm an idiot.

chas

Hi Chas
Most videos of players tend to point the camera at the keyboards to show the finger work, but if you see a player live you will find that the Bass Pedals are used just as much to give a solid foundation and drive to the music.
If you wish to play the Toccata and Fugue in Dm or other classical pieces then yes you will need training; however for most music you can learn it yourself.
E.g.: Bass pedals are laid out exactly the same as a keyboard, therefore instead of playing the bass notes with your left hand, play them with your left foot. (Its no different then going from an Auto to a Stick shift Gearbox, it soon starts to become second nature)
Hope this helps

Bill

Bill, we can agree to disagree (in a friendly manner, of course), but I have been playing jazz organ for forty years. I know or knew or played with or opposite most of the jazz organ greats of the 60's, 70's, and 80's, and I stand by what I said. You simply cannot emulate an electric or acoustic bass (which is what arranger bass AND LH bass attempts to do) with pedals. The human foot is just not that agile. And for the record, it's not THAT easy to master, either.

Respectfully,

chas

Have to agree with my buddy Chas. I saw Jimmy Smith use pedals tastefully on "What are you doing for the rest of your life" and a couple of other balads, but he, Groove Holmes and most others of that era and style used left-handed walking bass.

It's just not possible to get that speed and accuracy with your feet, and the combination of the left-handed bass and right hand covering either chords or solo (given the layering possible with drawbars) was/is an integral part of the art form.

I've done it that way for years. For legit music (eg. conservatory level material)-all the rules change. Of course, that's written with bass lines, chords and lead lines-entirely different from the B-3 styles we are familiar with.

What a delight to play that style....

Russ

I can get around on pedals..walking bass lines etc..for a short period of time..a 3 or 4 hour gig...forget it...That is why God gave me left hand fingers...

Hi All
Interesting that, after a bit more research I have found that most US players as you say don’t use pedals much, whereas players in the rest of the world (Particularly Europe) place a much greater emphasis on them. (I am Not including Classical trained or Theatre organists, some of who can play Flight of The Bumble Bee on them)
It is also interesting to note that, (Although I am not sure about the US) the most popular add on for an Arranger is a set of Bass Pedals. (Manufactures have to make sure that their stands designed for arrangers can accommodate a set of Bass Pedals, or they don’t sell many)
Isn’t it great to have such diversity in the world, life would be really boring if every country was the same.
Regards

Bill

The truth is, much of European music uses far simpler bass lines for things like schlager, alpenmusik, and simple pop based things that ARE performable by pedals (and a lot of arranger players use the pedal to input the lowest note for inversion purposes, so the arranger still plays the line), but much jazz and US R&B, funk, disco, you name it, these guys aren't playing THOSE lines on the pedals (except the odd virtuoso like B. Dennerlein).

Pedals are good for a reduction, a simplification of the line, but once you start to perform musics where the bass line is integral to the rhythm section, very slick and syncopated, that's tough for the feet to do well.

I spent a few years when I first started playing keyboards doing bass pedals, but it became quickly obvious, as first Motown, then funk came along that doing these things with your feet was close to impossible. I can do a waltz or a fox-trot with the best of them, but a funk line...? Forget it!

But it's nice we're talking about bass lines at all, something I consider the Achilles Heel of arrangers. Bass players are always walking TOWARDS the next chord, while arranger bass lines are walking AWAY from the current one (they never know the next chord until you play it for them!). It's SO obvious once you listen for it...

And once again, sorry for the comments about Midnight Rider. I honestly thought that a real critique was what he was after!

I enjoyed the comments on the last 8-9 posts. For one thing, it shows the dilemma of style makers trying to satisfy the needs of both a US and Euro market. Still, it's interesting to know and share what people are doing on the opposite shore and how music styles influence our playing technique. Too bad we had to hijack this thread in order to discuss it .

chas

Why are add-on pedal boards SO expensive? They usually have no tone generation, they usually aren't velocity or pressure sensitive (good job, too!), and they usually are too damn small (I want at least 17 notes for a decent line, if not the full two octave B3 monster!).

Yet they cost as much as the keyboard you are adding them to, half the time. First guy to come out with a cheap, simple C-F pedalboard makes a fortune, IMO... Make it dumb (nothing but on/off and select MIDI channel) and let the arranger/organ handle the rest. No volume pedal (we got those already!), no registration select, no leslie kick buttons. Simple, durable and cheap...

C'mon, all you manufacturers...