hello everyone,
i am a keyboarding "newbie". I have started lessons and am looking at purchasing either the yamaha dgx 202 or wk-3000. they are the same exact price locally. is there a certain one that is better than the other one? any help in deciding between the two would be greatly appreciated...
thanks

DirOFCIA

I sell both of these products at my store in Los Angeles. Right now, the WK3000 offers much more in features and in sound quality. The difference is that Yamaha is a better company to deal with if you need help but the sound quality of the Casio for Piano and Organs beat the Yamaha. Guitar wise, they are both good. Brass is better in the Casio. The Rhythms are pretty equal but the Casio is still better in my opinion. Also, the Casio has a smart media card option for saving and playing and the Yamaha has none. Also, the Casio has programable synth possibilities and you can choose any sound you wish to split where the Yamaha doesn't allow so many sounds to be used in split mode. I also can tell you that the effects processer in the Casio is totally programable and the Yamaha is not. I guess you can see which one I like better!
George Kaye
kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California

I sell both of these products at my store in Los Angeles. Right now, the WK3000 offers much more in features and in sound quality. The difference is that Yamaha is a better company to deal with if you need help but the sound quality of the Casio for Piano and Organs beat the Yamaha. Guitar wise, they are both good. Brass is better in the Casio. The Rhythms are pretty equal but the Casio is still better in my opinion. Also, the Casio has a smart media card option for saving and playing and the Yamaha has none. Also, the Casio has programable synth possibilities and you can choose any sound you wish to split where the Yamaha doesn't allow so many sounds to be used in split mode. I also can tell you that the effects processer in the Casio is totally programable and the Yamaha is not. I guess you can see which one I like better!
I forgot to tell you that the key touch on the Casio feels better than on the Yamaha.

George Kaye
kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California

i appreciate your input and have been looking back at some older posts comparing the 2 models.... i think i should stress that my main interests is the Piano so it would be important to me to have the one that has the better sounding piano... i am also interested in the smart media port and expandibility... if the Casio is the better one for piano then it is the one i will
purchase... let me know if it isnt though


and also it seems debatable on the importance of the Yamaha Education Suite II. I am taking lessons now and will take lessons at college. Is this suite just awesome for beginners and necessary?

thanks again
DirOFCIA

I got the chance to play the wk3500 the other day. I had tried the 3000 before and wasn't sold on it, and I think the two are supposed to sound the same, but I will say that I was pretty impressed with the 3500.

I haven't tried the dg202, but I have played other Yamaha boards in the 3500's range, and I would agree with George here. I think the 3500's piano sounds better ( to me ) than any of the comparable Yamaha boards.

AJ

For the purpose of Piano, I would say the Casio has it! The Yamaha piano is good but because of weaker speakers it has a less robust sound quality. If I run the Yamaha through a speaker system it sounds very good, but the Casio sounds great without the use of external speakers. I did do one thing in my store that has really sold the Casio Piano.......When you hit the button which has the grand piano on it, you always go to the piano, however, to my taste there is too much Reverb. So what I've done is to turn off the "dsp" light (this is the insert effect which is over and above a system reverb and chorus processor) and then I go to the system reverb and give it just a little reverb and store it at user location 600. Now, when someone comes into the store and tries the Casio I can show them a piano with a lot of reverb and my custom one with just a taste of reverb. Some think the stock piano has way to much reverb and I agree. Just having the ability to edit and store a new sound is a plus.
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California

I second George's opinion on key feel for the Casio. I was very impressed by the key feel on the Casio. The key feel is better then the Yamaha PSR2100 and even felt better then my Roland EM keyboard. We are comparing non-weighted boards.
I have never used Yamaha's education suite, but I'll give my opion anyways. You don't need it (especially if your taking lessons).
1. You don't need a chord dictionary. You can figure out any chord without looking it up. If you don't know how to do this. Ask your teacher or here.
2. Minus one mode. Just mute that track on a MIDI file.
3. Both hands mode. Just mute two tracks.
4. Timing mode. Play along with a MIDI file or record yourself and compare it to a MIDI file.
5. If your teacher has a MIDI keyboard he/she could record the bass on one track and the treble on another track and PRESTO you have "minus one mode" (just mute the track your working on)
Starkeeper

There are some good FREE piano lessons at "San Antonio Piano Lessons". These are good for beginners or intermediate players.
Check it out. http://users.wireweb.net/green/pianolessons.htm
Starkeeper

[This message has been edited by Starkeeper (edited 01-27-2004).]

i must say i appreciate all of your responses.

i went into this keyboard buying process thinking casio's were toys sold at wal-mart but as i see they are not

with all of the positive comments i see on the casio it may just have to be my choice

thanks again
DirOfCIA

Actually, you weren't really wrong! Just recently has Casio begun making decent mid-level arrangers.
I know a couple of guys who use them, but are still hiding the name when on stage!
DonM

If your interested in accoustic piano voice, I am very impressed with the Roland EP-760, but this is not in the same price range as the Casio WK3000. A true die hard piano teacher will encourage you to purchase a weighted keyboard. I'm not sure if the EP-760 is weighted or semi-weighted, but it feels and sounds like a piano to my ears. The other voices on it were crap. It also has 76 keys. You are going to demo these keyboards before you buy right?
Starkeeper

If you want learn to play piano,
do not buy a Yamaha keyboard.
All Yamaha keyboards (not Clavinovas) have smaller keys than standard pianos, and you may learn no good habits (lenght of chords...) to go afterwards to a piano. Some people may do it without problem, but others not. Moreover, Yamaha's key feel is bad.

Roland, Casio, Korg, Technics make its keyboards with standar piano key size.
And, usually, have better key feel.

But, if you want play keyboard ONLY, then Yamahas kbs may be a good option: they have a lot of possibilities, good sounds, easy O.S., support in the net, etc.

It is my opinion



[This message has been edited by Bluebird (edited 01-27-2004).]

George,
Could you give a quote on what you sell the WK-3000 for? I can't seem to find one in my area and I would consider getting one from you when I make a decision. Also, how would you compare the Yamaha PSRK1 to it, including price? I realize the difference in the number of keys and the addition of a pitch blend wheel. Both pluses. I've checked out the specs so I guess I'm interested in the sounds, etc. between them. Thanks.
Chuck

i demoed the wk-3000 today... it is very nice here is the plusses i found

-the grand piano button is good and robust... dont see any problems with it

-there are seperate outputs for l/r channels plus a headphone/output jack on the front too the yamaha dgx 202 only has one output jack

- the smartmedia port... the yamaha only has 8mb of built in flash rom compared to the limitless possibilities of the flash media port

- the pitch bend wheel can also be assigned as a modulation wheel at the touch of a button

- the keys are full size as on a piano (Bluebird pointed this out)

- the area of the lcd is bigger on the casio compared to the dgx202 and can be viewed from any angle while with the yamaha you have to almost be sitting in front of it to see the screen

-the casio allows settings to be saved in memory and assigned to a button... with the yamaha you can not do this, you must enter the settings each time

-the dealer i looked at sold the casio for $300 with a piano style footpedal and ac adaptor. the footpedal usually sold in the survival pack with the yamaha is not piano style

-the casio is louder

the yamaha has these exclusive features --
-the survival pack usually sold with the keyboard comes with a cd (dont know whats on it or if it is worth it???)
-the survival also comes with a warranty extension card (dont know about casios warranty???)
-the yamaha has the Yamaha Education Suite 2 (from what ive heard this isnt needed)

that is what i have come to find...

thanks
DirOFCIA

correction the wk-3000 may not have individual l/r outputs on back and may not have seperate headphone output on front not sure?

does anyone know???
i know the 3500 does but it is out of my price range

thanks
DirOfCIA

The key feel was better on the WK3500 than the Yamaha PSR's sitting next to it in the store. It has some sounds ( including a few that I liked a lot ) that reminded me of the MZ2000. In one respect, I could see myself buying this board as a 76 key controller, with the bonus of being able to use a few of the sounds / styles.

I think I instead may go to a dedicated controller though, because I would want to assign cetain midi paramters / cc's to enhance real time playing with One Man band.

AJ

I sell the Casio WK3000 for $299.00 including the AC adapter and stand.
I have a couple of refirbished WK3000 keyboards (from the factory in clearly marked boxes) for $229.00.
The WK3500 sells for $399.00. It offer seperate stereo outputs rather than just a headphone jack to go line out. The WK3000 only has a headphone jack in the front to use as line outputs. Using headphone jack turns off the internal speakers when using an external system but not with the WK3500.
The other two differences would be the floppy drive on the WK3500 and the modulation wheel on the WK3500 instead of a modulation button on the WK3000.


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George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California

Which would you suggest?
A Blemished wk3500 for $339, or a refurbished wk3000 for $229?
I think I may jump in here with a purchase of one of the 2 also.

Is The main diff between the 2 the addition of the floppy, mod wheel vs. mod button, The headphone/speaker/line-out difference?
Other wise pretty much the same board?

Thank you in advance for your input.
Jim

I am sorry, I just read my reply as it sits right under Georges, and realized everything I asked he had already stated... I really fool foolish.

I guess the only thing I do not understand is: What advantages does the floppy offer over smartmedia?
Smartmedia is more expensive (cards vs. cheaper disks)So floppy has advantage there.
But, the smartmedia has much larger storage capacity than floppy, correct?

Can the data from either be accessed equally?
or can the data from one or the other be directly read from it's format versus possibly having to be loaded from it's format to the keyboard first, before it would be usable?
Am I making any sense or should I go back to bed for a while? lol
Thank you.
Jim

Jim,
the smart media card offers faster access times. Also, although the smart media might seem more expensive, a 128 MB card can be bought for approx. $25.00 and it is the equiv. of buying over 100 floppy disks, so the cost is really not a concern. Also, you can use one little smart media card instead of having to switch between all those floppy disks.
The two keyboards are identical in sounds and features except for those things mentioned above.
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, Calilfornia
818-881-5566

George may I purchase one of those refurb wk3000 from you on-line or should I call you?
Jim

Jim, in case George doesn't check in for a while (he does get busy running his store), I'm pretty sure you have to call.
Good luck with the Casio. Don't forget to make him throw in the masking tape to cover the name.
DonM

Don,
Thank you.
In regards to the masking tape, point well taken. But would you believe that at one time
(being a guitarist first and keyboardist second) I actually used only an old cz101 on stage. With it's mini keys etc.
I only used it for a few fills now and then at the time, but still.....lol....

I mainly want the wk for it's 76 nice feeling keys and better arranger functions than I currently have on a qy100. It will be a while before I go out as a omb, if I ever do, and will probably move on from the wk before that time.
The wk will make a nice gift at that time to one of many people I can think of.
Jim

Jim, you can't see the tongue in my cheek, but I would play a Matel keyboard if I liked it and it did the job!
On my Wednesday night supper club job (gotta go pretty quick), I take my keyboard, stand, mic, laptop and the Yamaha YMS 50 speakers. I plug the keyboard and LT directly into the speakers. I'm set up in 5 minutes and the speakers are so small, they are barely visible to the audience.
Other musicians come in and walk up to the stage wondering where all the sound is coming from. Some of them carry a whole truckload of gear in to do the same job, and even though there may be 2 or 3 of them, they get the same pay.
Point is - the sound is what's important.
DonM

Casio has raised the bar. You can be sure Yamaha will not be out trumped for long.
They may not wait for a summer NAMM either.
Stakeeper

I was hoping Casio would release an MZ-3000. They were really heading in the right direction with the MZ-2000. Boy the MZ-2000 had some kick ass speakers.... Ohhh lord the bass it put out If Casio added the 17 track sequencer and pattern sequencer from the MZ-2000 to the WK-3500 I'd buy it.

Squeak

Hey Squeak,
Do you know if Yamaha discontinued production of the PSR550? I thought George Kay said it was discontinued, but cannot find his post. Might be a forthcoming PSR600 soon.
You can be sure it will have a cool organ and live orchestra voices (since the new PSR450 has this). They might also impove the organ voices or DSP to keep it above the Casio WK3500.
Starkeeper


[This message has been edited by Starkeeper (edited 01-28-2004).]

Starkeeper,
Yup George said the 550 was discontinued and I think he said they have no intention in the near future to replace it either

Squeak

What?
Oh well I'm interested in the PSR1500 if it's not much more than the PSR1100.
Starkeeper

Couldn't stand it - I went and played the Casio 3500. I had previously seen a 3000 very briefly.
My opinion echos that of most of the others, it is a lot of keyboard for the money. I liked the piano and organs and some of the guitars. The key feel was excellent and the speakers sound really good and loud.
Some of the styles were very good--only two variations though. The drum sounds ranged from so-so to very good.
It was easy to operate and not very heavy.
They did a lot of things right.
DonM

My only beef is WHY can't Casio give 4 variations ? It is just 2 extra buttons !

If they do that, then this keyboard will be sold to lots more people.

ok thank you for all of your replies
one last question
is the 3500 really worth the 100 more bucks

here is the way i am looking at it keep in mind i am new

1. the smartmedia is better than floppies anyway... only bad thing is if you buy music books that come with floppies you will have to transfer files to smartmedia with computer... but not a prob

2. being new... i think i can suffice with a modulation button? huh?

3. the seperate L/R outputs plus the headphone port is the only thing that bothers me. If i get the 3000 though and i get a good cable that goes from the 1 1/4 inche plug to 2 1/4 inch plug wont that be the same thing? because on the plugs arent the l/r channels divided anyway? and for me if i use headphones/external speakers i wont need the onboard speakers right?

thanks
DirOFCIA

You are sort of right. Yes you can use the stereo headphone jack and split it to left and right and plug it into a sound system. However, the headphone jack is not the same as line outputs. It will not be quite as clean of sound as using line outs. The levels are a little different.


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George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California