What do you think of simply pricing gigs for...

$50/hour, two hour minimum
Each set = 45 minutes, 15 minute break between

I'd like to add mileage figure as well, but afraid it would run 'em off. But I don't know that. Mainly just curious if you think the $50/hour, two hour minimum seems like a good way to do it. Instead of saying "$150" or $100" or whatever.

For senior centers I have been charging $100 for the first hour and $50 for each hour after the initial hour..

You havta go with what the going rate is in your area, which isn't that difficult to learn. Then price yourself according to how good of a job you think you do. If you're good, then make sure you're priced at the top of the going rates range.... never underprice yourself.

I only started performing ~ a year ago, mostly senior homes. I learned that the going rate (Cleveland/Akron) was $40 - $75 per hour for a single or duo. I started at $70/hr and going up to $75-80 after the first of the yr with no problem.

Main thing is to decide what you're worth and then stick with it...

BTW, don't disregard the cost of travel. Others on the forum are charging for mileage with little problem.

Glenn

I'm confused.

What if the Senior Center only wants entertainment for an hour or 45 minutes? Your only going to make $50 - $100 for the gig?

That sounds kind of low to me considering travel time, mileage, setup/breakdown, performances.

I would assume you'd be better off charging a flat fee per event with add-ons such as additional time, cocktail hours, additional players, etc.

Al

I like Fran's system where the first hour is 100, then 50 every hour after that. Because the work involved in setting up.

Doing two 1 hour gigs is more work than 1 two hour gig. ya know?

Bob
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(I'm just an ametuer though so I don't charge)

I have four general price structures for my solo work. Also, note that I also live in Ohio, very close to Dayton. Not exactly a thriving live music town...

1) Nursing homes, Retirement Communities, etc...$100 per show for 45-60 minutes. 4+ shows per year then it drops the price to $85.00 These are my low end accounts...the easiest and most willing jobs to reschedule if the need arises. My AD's feel like they're getting me at a great price, so they fill up my slow days (M-TH) quite nicely.

2) Private service clubs (VFW's, Moose, Elks, Legions, Amvets, etc)...$125-175 for the typical three hour gig.

3) Private Parties, Corporate, Civic gigs...$300-$500 for most gigs of this type.

4) Weddings...$400+ for receptions only...$500+ for both the ceremony and reception if all at same location. I'll adjust my price on two main factors.

A-How many guests do they expect? (If under 75 or so, this gives me a good sign that I may have to be flexible. If 100+, the safer a higher bid will be.)

B-Where is the reception being held? If the reception is at a local fire hall or small time banquet hall, adjust downward. If its at a local upscale hotel or country club, adjust upward.

Everyone's pricing scale is different...trust me its just a matter of time until one of our heavy hitters from the east coast weighs in and says us guys in Ohio are undercharging, lol...

One interesting thing I've seen locally is that a few of the higher priced guys have lost LOTS of work to more resonably priced talent. I've seen it more than once where a short term, "I've got MY money-who cares about the club?" from an entertainer winds up with the club dropping entertainment all together. Being flexible with time, fees, and profressionalism IMO, is #1 with most clients you'll run into. Are there exceptions to the above guidelines, of course...Remember, we're in the customer service business as well as providing entertainment. Coming off too rigid, inflexible or arrogant is one quick way to spend more Saturday nights home with the family...

Which is fun sometime, I'll admit.

My last day off was Thanksgiving, my next day is Christmas. The lowest paying gigs I have this month are 5 $85 nursing home ones. Compared to some of the guys in NY, NJ, LA, etc....I don't bring home as much, I'll bet, but for a dead town like Dayton, I can't complain. Figure out what YOUR location can support and go from there.

Good luck!

Bill in Dayton



[This message has been edited by Bill in Dayton (edited 12-09-2004).]

When I refer to a senior center..this is where seniors get together for dinner/dance...this is not a nursing home facility ...The average time is 3-4 hours..

I'm pretty much in line with Bill. Be careful not to underprice yourself. Sometimes they won't think you are very good if you don't charge enough.
DonM

I find it useful to negotiate based on my time, including setup, takedown, travel if excessive. That's what other professional consultants and service providers do. You need not confuse your clients with this unless they ask, but mentally just figure that a three hour gig is really a four hour gig - which it really is. This becomes an issue only if you want to negotiate for more consecutive nights... when my clients want a price break I tell them that I give breaks when I don't have to setup or takedown my equipment - that gets me extra nights, sometimes bumping my competitors out of their nights. Such fun!

So, rather than what I said, it would be better to state it as...

$100 for up to two sets (1:45), additional sets are $50 each

I tell ya, with gasoline prices, it sure adds up just going for short jaunts. I figured up each practice (with bandmates when I was playing with them), cost me $5 just for gas alone and he was only 25 miles away.

Bill in Dayton has pretty well described how I do it. The numbers are a bit different, but as Glenn says, you've got to know your market.

The highest demand night, by far, is Saturdays here, so I tend not to be as flexible in pricing on that night. But, for any new venue, before giving a price I like to find out what socio-economic category they fit into and how many guests will be at the event.

High volume clients' requests deserve serious consideration if it looks like the gig could be lost otherwise.

Eddie

Semi...
Be careful about charging by the set or hour. The fact is some clients will hire you for a minimum time to get minimum rate when in fact that one little job can keep you from accepting any other.

The little day time jobs can be priced by the hour and you can do a couple of them in one day with the proper scheduling. Night time is a different animal. I charge by the night and they own me for 3-4 hours.

Eddie

RIGHT, I never charge by the hour. Nursing Homes only expect one hour. Otherwise I give them a price and it's the same for one to four hours.
If they have hired me before, they know they will get their money's worth time-wise.
DonM

The important thing I learned the hard way years ago, is that you have to determine a set rate & fee schedule and charge accordingly. If you charge differently for client A than B, the news will get around sooner than you think. - Scott

Don ir right on...rates are similar for this area. Top players get $150.00 for upscale restaurant work...adequate players get $100.00 for rgular jobs and the bottom feeders try to steal jobs at a rate of $75.00. Corporate jobs ar $300-500.00. I don't do assisted living jobs, but recently, an activities director was visiting the restaurant I play most frequently and asked if I would play for the residents. She said they pay $150.00. I assume that is for an hour or two.

As for travel, I don't charge for travel in this county or to three small towns within 15 miles. My most frequent out-of town job is 250 miles away. I charge 35 cents a mile and $25.00 an hourfor travel. The four hour job takes me a total of 10 hours. It's a bank holding company in Indiana, and they have no problem with the price. Total compensation for the 10 hour day is $650.00. After the cost of travel, that's not excessive. That probably would be way too much for an out-of-town restaurant, but corporate clients know the value of time, so it's not a problem.

Keep on "pickin" and grinnin"...and have a fabulous holiday!


Russ

you can charge whatever you want but you better "PUT OUT" and be worth the money to your client or your history ...ya get ONE chance in this business......blow it and you outta there and so is your REPutaion ...sorry but thats the truth....ever ask yourself Am I Worth what I charge? Strive to be the best in your area and teh money will come your way....
I never discuss rates with anyone but my client.

For the county fair I played 3 hours Wednesday and 3 hours Saturday $150 each time.

I played for a woman's org that does charity work for beeast cancer at the biggest hotel in town with a wine festival etc. I didn't say a word they offered me $350.

I played for a contractors assoc. annual party for maybe 2 hours total for $300 they offered.

But the nursing homes want 1 hour for $50 that's it. After I get going I can't quit I do atleast one and a half hours for the fifty bucks.

The Eagles club pays $150 for 3 hours. there's just not a lot of opportunity to gig around here. The local nightclubs seem to want out of twon entertainers.

"After I get going I can't quit I do atleast one and a half hours for the fifty bucks."

Brick-I hear what you're saying, but don't make a habit of it. If you do it more than every so often, and when it suits you...they'll start to expect it. If you start giging alot, thats bad news. You'll blow your voice out, to start with and number two, what the hell kind of activities director lets her residents sit there for that long? The Nurses Aids are probably pissed, lol...

Bill in Dayton

SemiLive:

I don't know where you live or if you do nursing home gigs (which I do), but where I live (Chicago's far west suburbs), you cannot make a living charging $50 for an hour.

$50/hr. sounds good on paper, but it is a fact that with driving, you aren't going to be able to do more than three gigs in a day: One morning, one afternoon, and one evening.

If you want to make a living at this (which I do but not spectacularly) then you should be charging in the $100 range.

I charge as much as I can for each gig. I base my prices on these things:

1. My minimum for a gig that is within 1/2 an hour distance. $90/hr. morning, $105/hr. for the afternoon., $115/hr. for the evening. $125/hr. for weekend afternoons.
2. What can the venue afford? I have one client that hires me twice a month for two back to back 45 minute morning shows. They cannot afford more than $130. As I wouldn't book this slot otherwise, and I need the money, I take it. But I have another facility that pays me $130 for one hour in the morning. I have retirement homes that I know can afford $200/hr. I charge $200 an hour.
3. What day is the gig? Many nursing/retirement homes want Fridays. I charge more for Fridays. I charge a minimum of $110 and I steer those paying less than $125 toward the other days of the week. I charge at least $150/hr for holidays.
4. How far is the gig? Make sure that you are getting reimbursed for your miles and time.

When you factor in that you have to come up with 1) self employment tax, 2) gas, 3) car repairs, 4) health insurance, 5) retirement all by your self, $50/hr. isn't very much money. If that's all you can get, and you don't have to support a family by yourself, then it's certainly better than flipping burgers.

Beakybird

When I created the thread, it was not to ask "How much should I charge?" The question pertained to semantics... how do you phrase it best. Words are powerful, how you say something is powerful. That's what marketing is about.

The thread took on a life of its own. We've had several discussions about pricing and it's always good to read and this has been a good one! But that's not why I started the thread.

Just thought I'd say that before someone says "Heck, same question was covered three months ago."

Carry on, good advice within.