Jos,

I agree with in the fact that big companies will recycle their activities and concept more chips and softs.

But I think that the real question is: until where can one go in sound quality.

For example: which is the difference between an mp3 file and a wav file?
The wav is more complete than the mp3 in term of analysis of the sound (physical concept).
But, the human ear (human concept) is not enough powerful to hear the difference so that in general it is not possible to differentiate a mp3 from a wav.

The same thing can be applied to softwares.

I think that a certain moment technology will make it possible to have sounds of a realism such as it will be almost impossible to differentiate them from the original sounds (certain keyboard have already impressive sounds).

My fear is: which motivation will have then the companies to create new products (since in any event nobody would hear difference)?
And who will buy them if one has already exceptional sounds?

The future will say it to us

STAM

The writing is on the wall. The first keyboard manufacture (Roland, Yamaha, Korg, etc.) or Dell to come out with an open architecture will be the dominant player from that point on. The keyboard makers are doomed if they do and doomed if they don't. If they bring out an open system keyboard, then it isn't necessary to buy a new keyboard to get new styles, new sounds, etc. If they don't then I, for one, will build it myself, and they still lose.
Starkeeper

Stam,

It's true that if we all have perfect keyboards with anything we like in it, that we won't buy new ones anymore. Until it goes broken. I don't see that as a problem. It's a problem for the manufacturers. Let them make other products that are needed.

Starkeeper,

Building one yourself is an interesting idea. I know there are people that rebuild old home-organs to midi keyboards. There should be plenty of space in such an old instrument for a PC mainboard. And a lot of buttons to trigger fill in's!

Jos

I know almost everything has been said, but I might as well add my two cents. There is something to be said for user-friendlyness. People bitch about having the open-endedness that a PC OS would allow, but honestly, in many respects that would be a bottleneck. I want something that I can set up and perform on as quickly as possible. Windows requires booting, is prone to viruses, glitches, lock-ups, and many other flaws. Meh, user friendlyness always ranks highly in my book.

- ses

Everything is possible. It's just a matter of redesigning the concept. The major difference between the PC and the hardware device like synths, keyboard arranger, etc. is the boot process. Synth OS is stored in ROM/NVRAM and you know that PC is using HDD. No matter what OS we use as long as we keep using hard drive to boot the system we cannot get away from, crashes, bugs, viruses and many other catastropic events in our system. The PC industry is still giving us this old technology. They keep making bigger and bigger HDD which is good for storage. But if we keep using it to boot our systems and place all system files together with all programs and application, the system's tendency is to slow down the process.

If synth industry will produce this so called open architecture PC style keyboard arranger, they have to put the OS in the ROM which is possible because it's not as big as PC OS like Windows. Synths OS only detect probably just 1 or 2 devices which is the sound chip and controller. Unlike PC there's so many device drivers to be recognized to complete the boot process. Notice that if you boot your PC in safe mode it's faster than normal mode because it bypass many of the devices.

So making this type of arranger, or synth is not impossible. The pieces of technology is just scattered around. Somebody who has more time in his hand should start to put those pieces together and make us all happy. Have you guys check out or heard about LINDOWS? Another OS alternative which is produced by the man who love music, the MP3.COM founder Michael Robertson. Maybe we can ask him to think about this arranger synth open-system concept.

Dan

Dan & Ses,

There must be millions already that have a keyboard controller hooked up to a PC. They have to deal with the boot time, installation problems and viruses anyway. For them it would be a great improvement to have an all-in-one device.

I remember back in 1986 there was the introduction of a user-friendly computer called the Atari ST. It had a Macintosh/Windows type operating system when all the PC's where still running MS-DOS. The operating system was in ROM so it booted in seconds. But when new technology arrived like CD-ROM, better soundcards and faster modems, you couldn't upgrade it. And when a certain program was recommended to you, you couldn't run it because it would only run on MS-DOS.

So in the end people didn't choose for user-friendlyness, but for upgradebility, compatibily and price/quality. If you don't want to deal with the typical PC problems, you can keep on using the traditional arrangers and workstations. They will surely keep on producing a few models of those for the next decades.

Jos

PC Arranger ... Sounds a lot like http://www.openlabs.com/ and http://www.wersi.uk.com/abacus.htm to me.

Jos,
I'm sorry but I feel the need to correct you
The Atari machines were easy to upgrade : Just replace the OS Eproms !

Still it is soo hard to believe Atari lost the competition with ólder IBM technology. They were fast, stable, easy to use, Motorola 68000 inside.... and with the MROS realy multitasking ! It took PC's (developers/hardware) another 10 to 15 years to reach the same level the ST's had in 1985
Only since 5 or 6 years PC's can compete with the mid-80'Atari's (music/midi) Realize the ST's run on 8 or 16 MHz while PC's need at least 600 (!!) MHz to run smoothly without timing problems........ Just to illustrate how inefficient PC's and Windows work

Roel

[This message has been edited by Roel (edited 09-03-2003).]

Nigel,

We've seen those. But I'm looking for something that I can buy in a shop nearby for a reasonable price. If a PC costs $800 then $1200 would be fair for a PC with black and white keys. Because that's all I'm asking for.

Roel,

I meant that you couldn't upgrade it with all the internal CD-ROM's, soundcards and modems that appeared at that time. And the fact that it was not MS-DOS compatible was fatal for many. Software developers that would make just one version of there product would always choose MS-DOS. But I agree, unlike todays arranger keyboards, the Atari had modern technology on board at the time it appeared.

Jos

Your idea of a Windows based keyboard is to be honest, both bad business, and for musicians' needs, bad practice.

To put a PC in a keyboard what you're effectively doing is restricting the lifetime of the PC in the form of expansion, and the likelihood of being able to upgrade and keep up with the demands of popular software and other requirements. Technically, it's possible however, but not in a business sense due to economies of scale, and of course, companies have to pay royalties to the likes of Microsoft for putting their software on their hardware, and the 'other' restrictions MS puts on.

You can of course purchase rack-mount PC's and hook up a master keyboard of any size, which really does away with the need for what you're asking for anyway.

Moreover, I think like Apple did with the computer OS, organisations in the music industry, such as Yamaha and Roland should get together and develop a scalable/universal MUSIC operating system, and one that unlike Windows (which is a nightmare in all its guises) caters for musicians' needs.

IT support groups and companies around the world exist because of Microsoft operating systems. Not a good thing for music.

The best operating system for music due to its technical nature is unix. The ideal scenario would be for music gear companies to work with the likes of Apple and develop a unique OS for the future. I think the very nature of Microsoft would put off any music company thinking of doing this with them - MS would just buy them out if it became a success.

Frankie,
Awareness Engine.


[This message has been edited by arrangersrus (edited 09-03-2003).]

[This message has been edited by arrangersrus (edited 09-03-2003).]