I played the PSR 3000 or whatever the newest one is supposed to be at the winter nam. I thought the keys felt terrible. Felt like they would snap off rather than press down. I know the Tyros is significantly more keyboard than the PSR, but I had to ask all the same.
Secondly, are there any brass stabs or falls? Are the guitars and basses the only instruments that get special treatment? Well, I know there are multi-velocity drum hits and such. I heard nothing on any demos suggesting any special brass effects.

I've always been more of a Roland workstation guy rather than a Yamaha arranger, so I know little. All I know is I heard the demos and liked them. Liked them more than the Genesys or kn7000 demos. I've heard all the claims about not making a decision on mp3 demos, so I don't need to hear that again.

Anyway, this post is long enough. your feedback is greatly appreciated. Thanks

Just got the Tyros yesterday, but it does have brass stabs and falls on the multipads at least. Haven't checked it all yet.
I think the key feel is much better than the PSR 2100, but I didn't mind it there either.
DonM

Rory Hoffman? It's a pleasure to meet your aquaintance. Garnering a nomination for "New Artist of the Year" for the 2003 CCMA Awards is quite an honor. Congratulations!

As to the Tyros; it has a much better key feel than the PSR 3000 IMO (which is supposedly just like the PSR 2000/2100 Keybed action). But if you want Brass Stabs and Brass Falls on the Keys themselves you may want to consider the Korg Pa1X PRO. There are Brass Falls and Stabs on it. The Tyros does have Brass Stabs and Falls but like DonM said they are just within the context of the Multipads and cannot be played from the Keys themselves. But the Korg Pa1X PRO is quite a bit more expensive than the Tyros chiming in at a $3,499 MAP price.

Also all the Multipads on the Tyros are set to CMaj7 so you would have to play a Chord within the Accompaniment section of the Tyros then trigger the Brass Stab or Brass Fall of the Multipad simultaneously for the Multipad to play in the key or Chord desired. A little hassle but it can be done. The Pa1X PRO on the other hand is able to trigger the Brass Fall or Stab by playing the indivdual Keys themselves along and in conjunction with the actual Brass or Trumpet Voices.

The Yamama Motif ES series Workstation Keyboards also have Brass Stabs and Falls played by way of the Keys themselves too.

You can get a Motif ES7 for $2,395 which is less expensive than either a Tyros OR the Pa1X PRO.

Best regards,
Mike

[This message has been edited by keybplayer (edited 02-27-2004).]

I only found the Tyros to be a slight improvmenet (in feel) over the 2100. The keys are still sub-standard size (contrary to Yamaha's advertisements) and the downward throw is less than many of the other offerings.

I get a kick out of how many people have comented or compared things to the psr3000, when hardly anyone has played it. It's all "IMO" ... or "supposed to be like..."
*Let's just wait till they hit the street. I'll buy one, test drive it and then review it before I dump it.

I found the key feel on a Tyros to be somewhat better than a PSR, but the keys are smaller and it is noticeable. They don't feel like they would "break off" ( good description btw ), but they weren't all that responsive to me when I compared them to most of the other synths I played at the store.


If it really interests you, I would suggest to give it a good workout if there is any way you can, because you may ( or may not ) be disappointed coming from a Roland workstation. Also, ( and you may already know this ), you won't find the same level of patch editing vs a workstation.

In my own situation, the key size and feel itself doesn't kill the deal for me on my Motif ES, as it at least feels better than what Yamaha uses on the PSR line, but along with OS differences, it is just one more thing that has me looking toward the Fantom X as a potential replacement for it.

AJ

[This message has been edited by Bluezplayer (edited 02-28-2004).]

As an acoustic piano (7 ft Steinway B Grand) owner & keyboardist as well, I find the Tyros' synth action & its 'slightly smaller' key size just fine. Having also owned a PSR2000, appeciate the substantial improvement in key feel. The PSR2000's keys, in my opinion, felt rather spongy. The Tyros' quicker action feels a lot more responsive. The playing style & keyboard technique used when playing an arranger, traditional synth, accordion, organ, and acoustic piano are each entirely different. Once you accept this fact, the ability to learn to play each of them becomes a lot easier. - Scott

Scottyee,
I still have my 2000, & I play it most every day. I know the keys are small & soft.
To me they have more the feel of organ keys.
Maybe a little smaller Has anyone ever compared the difference in size?
Nobby

Uh, UD; Rory played the PSR 3000 in person himself at NAMM and described to all of us what we've heard from others that have had a chance to play it. That the Keys seem to be put together just like the PSR 2000/2100, ie., "lousy action", spongy feeling, soft marshmellow keys. Will Yamaha correct the Keys before the PSR 3000 hits mass production? If they listen and heed our advice on this Forum they will. But do they seem to listen and heed our advice on this Forum? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. At least in the majority of cases that I'm aware of.

But you're right UD. We should still reserve judgement until they hit the streets and we can play it in person. Stranger things have happened you know. Yamaha could surprise all of us by placing an actual decent Keybed with wonderful action on the PSR 3000. But don't hold your breath because pre-production models that are shown at NAMM especially; - most likely Yamaha or any other Company would not do a complete makeover of a Keybed or any other major component of a "presentation" model Keyboard because Manufacturers are showing people what the Keyboard offers and they don't want to confuse the public later by adding or subtracting from that perception and what has already received major press and ballyhooed product description and feature list. In other words; if they're lousy Keys at NAMM they'll almost certainly be lousy Keys when they hit the streets.

Best regards,
Mike

In I began playing arranger keyboards I thought I would miss real piano keys/feel forever. That lead me to the arranger module route + controllers. But I got used to synth keys to the point I don't miss hammer-action keys. To me there is not a big difference between the Tyros feel and PSR 2100.

Another note is: I agree that key feel can make a considerable difference for acoustic piano players. With time I realized, with surprise, that with a synth feel, some sounds can be payed in a more expressive manner.

Maybe one day I'll buy agin a 88 hammer weighted keyboard to play my tyros acoustic piano or kurzweil piano sounds, just to play at home.

-- José.

[This message has been edited by Route 66 (edited 02-28-2004).]

I don't really miss full weighted action, butg I do experience a discomfort when playing on smaller, flimsy-er keys. I doubt that I'll ever go the acoustic action again, but I DO demand a good, solid feel and full size (by PIANO standards) keys.
I'm sure most players can adjust to most anything if played enough, but the truth is .. I don't WANT to get comfy with a smaller pattern. I want to keep my comfort level intact so I can play all full size instruments with the same relative ease.

I refuse to have a manufacturer try to tell me the lie that "xyz" keys are full size, when they clearly are not. I'm not mad at Yamaha ... I still think I'd like another Yammy some day, but they have a lot of work to do before they win my trust again. They need to address a few important pro-related issues .... and then I'll give them an audition. Just like with my relationship with my clients - they have to earn the right to work with me. Past performance doesn't buy me dinner, or put shoes on my kids !

I think the Tyros has excellent key action.

I second that notion Scott...

Best regards,
Mike

and I 3rd it! Scott Yee

Okay, here is my opinion of Tyros owner.
I think that the Tyros has the "average" key feel of all the 61 notes plastic keyboards, maybe a little better than -say- a Roland VA7 and definitely better than a PSR 2000 (I think that it's a matter of spring calibration, but am not sure).
I think that a light action is better to play things like a synth solo and gives also a better control of the aftertouch, but to play with an acoustic piano sound a heavier action is definitely adviced. So the ideal solution -to me- is to own at least two keyboards.
I used to own a Yamaha digital piano with 88 weighted keys but the action was too heavy and my wrists used to ache after a while, so I think that the best compromise is a 76 notes semi-weighted keyboard.
Among the keyboards I have owned the Yamaha 9000 pro had one of the best actions I remember and I am tempted to try out (and maybe buy) a Korg PA1-Xpro just because everyone speaks well of its action.

Having both a Tyros and Motif 8.....the Tyros to me has as good a feel as any other synth weighted keys. That being said, I use the Mo now to control it with weighted piano and do not think I would ever go back to synth action. For myself and style of play I get far more control from the weighted action.

The compromise I think is what my Andromeda had which was a semi weighted action and don't know why that is not an option on all boards....it had probably the best overall key feel of any board I've owned. It was for me just perfect, enough resistence for expressiveness, but not so much it gave carpal tunnel.

So now here's a thought......why hasn't one of these guys invented an adjustable action set of keys? I'm thinking it couldn't be that difficult....turn the screw and it tightens or loosens the entire action.....what an outstanding idea Terry.
Terry

------------------
jam on,
Terry http://imjazzed.homestead.com/Index.html

[This message has been edited by trtjazz (edited 02-29-2004).]

Hey, thanks for the rplies. I'm gonna be in Nashville for the next week, so I won't get back to the topic for quite awhile. I think you all mostly answered my questions anyway.

Believe me, I'm familiar with synthe keys, but PSR keys seem to be at an all-time low for key feel, at least to me.
The main reason I didn't want a motif is because I wanted an arranger for quick throwing down of ideas and instant drum loops and such.
Thanks again,
Rory

Rory,
I like the Tyros key feel even more after playing it on the job for two nights. It feels more solid than the PSR 2100, yet allows the quick, light touch necessary for emulation of the various instruments, such as guitar, fiddle, steel, sax, horns, etc.
BTW, I LOVE the Tyros pianos and new guitars.
There is a Blues Guitar, and a Vintage Lead Guitar which are both outstanding.
DonM

I knew you'd be a perfect fit for that board Don ..... now get busy and RE record some demos for us !
(Like I have room to talk!)

Hey Don..........can't wait for your indept Tyros review.....

The action on the Korg PA1X-Pro is even better than the 9000 Pro's. -- José.

Josè, what are you trying to do: convince me to pay another 3000 euros for a new keyboard??

What??? That idea didn't even cross my mind! But... do I feel a little weakness in you?

Seriously, the things that impressed me in the Korg were the key feel, some acoustic styles, and some guitars (amazing). All a little "dangerous" for a fine bossa player like you... especially after Daddy JJ's news

-- José.

It may be a while before I have time to post demos. Just moved my mother and stepfather in with us. It is quite an adjustment. Other that reorganizing the whole house, we have to change prescriptions, subscriptions, bank accounts, addresses, insurance drivers' licenses, insurance, doctors, dentists, specialists, phone numbers, on and on.
Plus we had to rush "Grandpa Ralph" to the doctor yesterday with trouble breathing. The diagnosis was good though, just bronchitis and a little pneumonia. He is 90 and has NEVER been in a hospital. Other than the lungs and a little hard of hearing he is in wonderful shape.
Dave, I still have to deliver the 2100 to Longview asap. Today we have to go back to the doctor.
I'll get to the recordings soon though. So far I'm loving the Tyros.
DonM