I'm in the process of buying a new keyboard. kn7000 looks promising as well as gem genesys and Tyros. I am not sure I can wait till the end of the year, therefore currently I am considering buying one of these:

kn6500
pa-80
sd1

My main concern is techno/dance sounds/styles and a powerful style creator AND sequencer. I don't care about 61 ot 76 keys nor about speakers. I know that technics has a great sequencer but not sure about techno/dance drum sets/sounds etc.


I'd appreciate for any advice

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New Yorker

[QUOTE]Originally posted by New Yorker:
....and a powerful style creator AND sequencer.
____________________________________

Technics sure have those qualities
GJ

I know, but how about drum sets and sounds for techno/dance music?

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New Yorker

Yes, there are such drumsets too. However, this
is not my favourite musicstyle, and the KN6500 I
don't remember exactly how they sounds, but it
sounds good on my "old" KN5000
GJ

I (personally) would NOT recommend the KN6500 if 'techno/dance' drum sets & sounds are at the top of your wish list.

I think that the Technics KN keyboard's big claim to fame are its' great traditional swing jazz, orchestral, & latin styles, but its' contemporary styles & sounds are pretty weak (imho). The Technics drums don't have the 'in your face' PUNCH the SD1 provides and The Korg PA80 has a lot of great contemporary synth sounds based on the legendary Korg Triton. For your needs, I'd pick between the Ketron SD1, XD9, or Korg PA80. Just my opinion. - Scott

I thought so but wanted to ask anyway.
but: I WANT TECHNICS SEQUENCER!!!

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New Yorker

I don't know a lot about the KN, so I'll leave the sound things to those who know better, ( PA80 will shine for synth stuff though ), but from what I do know of the KN, sequencing is supposed to be very good in comparison to other keyboards. The PA80 is also very good in this area. Seemingly complicated at first but with good reason I think. Lot's of detail and capabilities to make good styles. I was able to convert some of the Yamaha styles I had and I think that some of them sound as good if not better on the PA80 than they did on their original boards. I did use external software to assist, but all of the voice editing and tweaking was done in the PA80 with good results.

AJ

Thank you all.

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New Yorker

I just wanted to let you know that the style sequencer on the Sd1 is very basic. No loop recording, no event editing, no copy measure, no delete measure, and no different time signature within the same style.

I just happen to try out a psr 2000 today and I was very impressed with the style sequencer, it seemed to be alot more advanced than my sd1's sequencer.

Anyways I am sure the style sequencer on the Pa80 is more powerful than the sd1, so good luck.

I just wanted to let you know that the style sequencer on the Sd1 is very basic. No loop recording, no event editing, no copy measure, no delete measure, and no different time signature within the same style.

I just happen to try out a psr 2000 today and I was very impressed with the style sequencer, it seemed to be alot more advanced than my sd1's sequencer.

Anyways I am sure the style sequencer on the Pa80 is more powerful than the sd1, so good luck.

I just wanted to let you know that the style sequencer on the Sd1 is very basic. No loop recording, no event editing, no copy measure, no delete measure, and no different time signature within the same style.

I just happen to try out a psr 2000 today and I was very impressed with the style sequencer, it seemed to be alot more advanced than my sd1's sequencer.

Anyways I am sure the style sequencer on the Pa80 is more powerful than the sd1, so good luck.

Sorry for the repitition, I had to try a few times because my post wasn't going throug, but I guess it went through too many times.

Sev,
you can use the "edit/delete" feature; should be the third small icon from the left, in the top row.

Dreamer,

If you read my post carefully I was talking about the "style sequencer" of Sd1 not the Song sequencer. New Yorker is looking for a strong style creater but like I said before sd1 offers a very very weak style creater which they call pattern edit. I not very impressed with song sequencer of sd1 either, because of its awkwardness. Now I am trying to make it work with cakewalk but cakewalk only reads its GM sounds only. I have to work on my cd but I am having problem with sd1's song sequencer right now.

Sev 01,
I think Dreamer ment to tell you how you can delete all your repeated posts in this tread
GJ

Sorry but I got a laugh out of the miss understanding between Sev and Dreamer. I will say yes I think Dreamer meant for Sev to Delete his posts and was not talking about the SD1.

By the way Sev, if your SD1 is that Basic on the style sequencer I wonder if its any better on my X1. I recently bought my X1 and have not explored the reocrding features on it yet. Any ideas?

New Yorker,

If still in (minor) doubt:

The KORG PA80 is the way to go here,
definitely !!!!!!!!

regards,
john

Very interesting. Looks like Korg is the winner here for me. What I want is the sequencer of Technics and sounds of Korg Dream om, right?

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New Yorker

New Yorker,

What features are you looking for specifically in the style sequencer ? I have a rough idea of what the Technics style sequencer can do. I also have a very good working knowlege of what the sequencer in the PA80 can do, as well as how to make or convert styles for it both using it's internal sequencer and using some inexpensive software to go along with it.
If you are looking to convert already existing styles from other boards, you need not be concerned. Most of them are already done and are available. Some just need a little tweaking but the PA80 has features that are unique to some of the other boards that will help accomplish this. If you want to make styles from scratch, there is software available ( inclding some free stuff ) that will make the task possible.

AJ

BP, are you talking about jammer pro?

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New Yorker

I do use Jammer for creating drum and sometimes bass parts, but for style conversion korg provides a freeware tool that works well once you get used to using it. I sequence in XG works and cakewalk. I use XG works to asist in style to,style conversion because it plays all of the Yamaha styles ( and any style converted to Yamaha format ) from within by writing the pattern and chord in step time to a midifile. I can also use it along with the korg software to quickly accomplish Yamaha .sty to korg .sty style conversions. I am going to give EMC styleworks a tryout as well, but I'm not sure whether that will or won't make the process any easier ior faster.

The real challenge is in tweaking the styles so that they sound good once you get them on the PA80, but with all of the functions included in the Korg style sequencer, it is very doable. It probably takes me anywhere from about 10 mins to over 30 mins from start to finish to convert a style, and maybe a little longer to make a new one from existing parts of different styles ( that aren't on the PA80 already ) or from scratch, depending on what is involved with that particular style. That includes setting up 4 different voices for the STS settings ( single touch settings or in Yamaha speak One touch settings ). The Pa80 also has the style mix and match function so that any part(s) of an existing PA80 style can be mixed easily and quickly with another or several others. This includes taking one or more instrument parts from a single variation or all of the variations in a style if desired and mixing it with others.

Cheers
korg AJ

Ok, so what do u think would be "the best" software to create styles for pa-80 (or any other) from scratch?

Thanks for all your input guys.

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New Yorker

Well. If you need complex customs drums and like me you're not very good at doing them in real time, Jammer is very good at that, but I'm guessing that there are other dedicated software drummers that do well also. Jazz sequencer is also excellent for doing drum / bass patterns ( it's now freeware ), but it may or may not lend itself well to your style of play. I think you're going for a synth style. Jammer is pretty good for laying down rythym patterns on other instruments as well.


Xg works is excellent for working with the yamaha .sty format files, and also when using Yamaah Xg boards, as it has an xg editor program. If you're not going to use either, XG works is otherwise a very ordinary sequencer program that will work fine with any non xg keyboard but because there is no way ( that I know of ) to put a patch file into xg works for non xg synths, it's nothing special to use along with the PA80 just for the purpose of sequencing. Even Cakewalk express has nearly as many functions for just sequencing and is better to use if you need patch definition files.

Of course if you are going to sequence all your parts in real time, you have all you need on the PA80 itself. Any decent external sequencer can be added for editing if you think you might need to.

Korg AJ

[This message has been edited by Bluezplayer (edited 04-12-2002).]

Right, but is jammer pro an arranger software?

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New Yorker

Jammer pro is not an arranger software in that you can play it live like an arrnger keyboard. You can play from Jammer styles and step enter chords. The appeal for me is the flexibility in editing styles using a completely different approach than most other software or arranger boards, although Jazz sequencer also uses a similar approach but with a lot less options. ( but hey it's freeware). The approach is different because the notes are produced via algorithims that can vary ranging from the user exercising total control so that a specific note plays at a specific interval to completely random notes being produced based on parameters the user sets. Jammer live is true arranger software in that it functions in the way an arranger does, but Jammer Live users cannot make their own styles.

I'm not saying that Jammer pro is the the software to end all software, ( it isn't ), but it is certainly another useful tool in the arsenal for a player like me who might struggle with difficult drum patterns. There are trial versions available that will give you a good feel for what it can do. If you are interested in more info and a trial version, the link to Jammer is http://www.soundtrek.com

Cheers,
AJ