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#195378 - 01/04/05 11:11 AM Re: "Then You Can Tell Me Goodbye" Rediscovered
GlennT Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/02
Posts: 1790
Loc: Medina, OH, USA
Quote:
Originally posted by Scottyee:
your songs will have much more power and meaning (to both you and your listening audience) if you apply the above techniques


Scott, you're absolutely right. I know both you and UD have been preaching this for some time and it makes a big difference. You look and sound better/more professional and have more fun!

Glenn

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#195379 - 01/04/05 08:02 PM Re: "Then You Can Tell Me Goodbye" Rediscovered
Scottyee Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 10427
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area, CA, US...
Quote:
Originally posted by GlennT:
I know both you and UD have been preaching this for some time and it makes a big difference.


Yep, that's at least "ONE" thing that both Uncle Dave & I can AGREE on. - Scott
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#195380 - 01/04/05 09:00 PM Re: "Then You Can Tell Me Goodbye" Rediscovered
Uncle Dave Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 12800
Loc: Penn Yan, NY
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No longer monitoring this forum. Please visit www.daveboydmusic.com for contact info

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#195381 - 01/04/05 09:27 PM Re: "Then You Can Tell Me Goodbye" Rediscovered
brickboo Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/04/01
Posts: 2071
Loc: Fruita, Colorado, USA
You've got to love the bII#9 chord at the end of the turn around. That's why I like Jazz. It's on every other tune I play, and it never sounds dull or monotonous to me.
_________________________
I'm not prejudiced, I hate everybody!! Ha ha! My Sister-In-Law had this tee shirt. She was a riot!!!

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#195382 - 01/04/05 09:39 PM Re: "Then You Can Tell Me Goodbye" Rediscovered
GlennT Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/02
Posts: 1790
Loc: Medina, OH, USA
Quote:
Originally posted by brickboo:
You've got to love the bII#9 chord at the end of the turn around


OK Boo, what's the bII#9 chord at the end of the turn around??

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#195383 - 01/04/05 10:25 PM Re: "Then You Can Tell Me Goodbye" Rediscovered
Scottyee Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 10427
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area, CA, US...
Quote:
Originally posted by brickboo:
You've got to love the bII#9 chord at the end of the turn around.


Yep, the bII#9 dominant tri-tone chord substitution (Gb7#9 in the key of F) is definitely the 'must hear' cool sounding funky chord you gotta play (especially with the pros) on this tune, even though commerical charts usually only give the basic vanilla V7 chord. - Scott
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#195384 - 01/04/05 11:00 PM Re: "Then You Can Tell Me Goodbye" Rediscovered
brickboo Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/04/01
Posts: 2071
Loc: Fruita, Colorado, USA
C is the easiest key. So in C you play the C# chord which is the flated 2 chord with a 7th and a #9th. Thus the notes are C#,F, Ab, B, E, = bII7#9 or C#7#9 (Db7#9)

Are you making fun of me? That is the beautiful chord right before the I, Tonic, or Root chord what ever you call it. Use this right before every root chord in the tune. Yes! even at the end of the bridge. This chord is the reason I like the tune.

If you do jazz you get to use the bII7#9 chord a lot. If you only do pop tunes in general you only get to use it on "Then You Can Tell Me Goodbye" and maybe in the last 60 years you might fine one more Pop tune that might use it, but I doubt it.

For horn players Jazz is where it's at. Ask Dexter, Coltrane, Rollins, Griffin, Gerry Mulligan.

There are lots of pop tunes I enjoy playing and singing along with the keyboard. But when a musician walks in he listens a lot closer if you pick up you horn and improvise on "All The Things You are" and it's not just the same old blues licks that you play on a blues chart.

I'm talking horn players. So don't you one man band guys get your feathers ruffled.

Dave does Nightengale Sang In Berkley Square. On it and other tunes like that you can always use the bII7#9 before the ending tonic, root chord. It sounds great when you retard at the end and use it. It just doesn't fit on Blueberry Hill and Stormy Monday.

Try using the bII7#9 on an ending, and instead of the tonic chord if the ending melody note is the tonic note, play the raised 5 chord before the ending tonic chord.

For example, in C insted of the same old V7 chord before the C at the end of a tuen, substitute the bII7#9 for the V7 chord and then use the Ab and while holding the tonic melody with your voice resolve to the tonic chord which is C in the key of C. Make sure the ending melody note is the tonic note C when you hit the Ab chord.

I sure hope you're not making fun of me Glenn. That's not very nice. I'm almost as old as Gary you know?

This chord substitution is elaborated about in a book I mentioned before. It's called Inside Outside" by Bunky Green. You can get it from Jamie Abersole.

If you're serious about music you should get it. It will explain in 10 pages what you may not learn in a life time of just playing gigs unless you're working with someone of Bunky's caliber which is gonna be hard to do/
_________________________
I'm not prejudiced, I hate everybody!! Ha ha! My Sister-In-Law had this tee shirt. She was a riot!!!

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#195385 - 01/05/05 05:55 AM Re: "Then You Can Tell Me Goodbye" Rediscovered
SemiLiveMusic Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/28/04
Posts: 2206
Loc: Louisiana, USA
Quote:
Originally posted by brickboo:

This chord substitution is elaborated about in a book I mentioned before. It's called Inside Outside" by Bunky Green. You can get it from Jamie Abersole.

If you're serious about music you should get it. It will explain in 10 pages what you may not learn in a life time of just playing gigs unless you're working with someone of Bunky's caliber which is gonna be hard to do/



A Google did not find it. It found this page...
http://www.hickeys.com/cgi/display.cgi?cart_id=&page=/ja.htm

...which mentions the book in fine print as an associated book, but it's only a mention.
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~ ~ ~
Bill

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#195386 - 01/05/05 05:58 AM Re: "Then You Can Tell Me Goodbye" Rediscovered
SemiLiveMusic Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/28/04
Posts: 2206
Loc: Louisiana, USA
bII7#9

I'm confused on a chord you keep talking about. The above is what was typed into this page after I copied and pasted. What are the two characters right after the "b"...? It typed two Roman Numeral "I" characters. This is confusing me.
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~ ~ ~
Bill

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#195387 - 01/05/05 07:33 AM Re: "Then You Can Tell Me Goodbye" Rediscovered
tony mads usa Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/16/02
Posts: 14376
Loc: East Greenwich RI USA
I should let Scott or boo or any of the more formally trained musicians answer this, but the II refers to the second chord of the scale (key) you are playing in. In boo's example, playing in the key of 'C', the second chord is 'D', but in this case it is "bII" so the 'D' is flatted ... (is there such a word ) ...

As I said, I am not as formally trained and don't claim to have a great ear, but I have used that chord sequence for years because 'it sounded good' ... It's nice to know that I was right ...
t.
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t. cool

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