I noted that many of you use sound modules connected to your arranger keyboard. Have you found a practical way to select the sounds on the module (to create a layered sound) ? With practical I mean something else than using the front panel buttons of the module.

I have Yamaha PSR9k, so any methods available on it would be appreciated.

Here are some of my own attempts:

- Select a panel voice on the 9k which has the same MIDI program change number as the voice you are trying to select on the module. But how do you know the Program number of the panel voice ? After selecting the voice you need to disable sending of program changes, otherwise you will change the sound of the module again. Can you do this in a practical way, without too many button pushes ?

- You could store program change numbers in the registration memories and use these for selecting the voice ? You would need 128 memories for this and a way to prevent sending program change commands after you have selected the sound (see the previous one).

- Create 128 (or whatever number) midifiles on your hard drive each sending a different program change number. Name these according to the voice(s) they select. Play the "midifile" to select the voice(s). Well, you can do this only while you are not playing anything.

If you are using a "backing sequence", (a midifile) then of course that can include the program change commands, but this is not what I'm looking for.

If you have several modules, there's the additional difficulty of selecting the correct midichannel ?

And you still have the difficulty of selecting the right sound bank of the module. For instance, Yamaha and Roland use different ways of indicating the bank number, XG vs. the GS. Only the "play a voice selecting midifile" method seems to work in this case ?

Kari

The most practical thing, IMO, is to use your arranger keyboard as a master keyboard and store in every performance memory the right program change number to be sent to your module for each song. I think that in the PSR 9000 this can be done storing the number either in the Music Database or in the OTS settings (but I am not sure about that). The 9000 pro has actually two midi outs and two different settings for master keyboard 1 and 2.

Dreamer

Thanks for the answer. The PSR9k has two Midi outs as well. In the MIDI settings there are two preset ones: MasterKB1 and 2, but they only define what information is to be sent out on each MIDI channel. Well, that's a good start, but not what I need. I could not find anything usable in the OTS or MDB either. Maybe the 9000 Pro is different here ?

What I really would like to have is user definable settings for the Voice names and corresponding program change numbers (including the bank number). There should be several banks of these, one for each sound module. You should be able to select these the same way as you select the Panel voices (one additional button please, to select the "external voice banks"). You should also be able to store several of these settings in a registration memory to select the correct voices on the attached modules.

Well, hopefully the next model after Tyros will have this kind of function: Hint for Yamaha (free of charge)!

Kari

Kari,
what you are asking for can be done for sure in a dedicated master keyboard or you could use a midi patch bay: I have one of them, amd basically it's a module with 8 midi ins and 8 midi outs and a memory bank where you can store a lot a data for each program, like program change numbers to be sent to each midi out for every program, split point, transpositions, etc.
I have checked the 9000 pro manual and it says that the only difference between Master Kbd1 and Master Kbd2 is that the second does not transmit aftertouch data. The manual mentions also the possibility of enabling/ disabling the transmission of program change numbers for both the upper and lower part, so I think that it could be possibile to match the voices of the pro with the voices of an external module. I still think, however, that a midi patch bay could me a more practical, powerful and rather inexpensive way to solve your problem.

Dreamer

Yes, you are right in that with a Midi patchbay I would come close to what I want. I really had forgotten those devices. What I still would be missing is seeing the real name of the voice (or performance) I am about to select. I would need to keep the map between the 9k voices and the synth module voices in my head (or on paper, which I do not like).

As long as the 9k has at least the same amount of similar voices (e.g. pianos), this may not be a big problem. However, if the module has many more then I'm in "trouble" with this solution. I could then perhaps switch to another map on the patcbay and re-use the 9k voices, but this is already getting complicated.

Also the need to disable sending program change commands after selecting the voice on the module is making this a bit complicated, although I could perhaps use one registration to enable program changes and another one to disable them.

So Yamaha, if you are listening: there's an opportunity to make this more user friendly !

However, currently this seems to be the best way to achieve what I want. Have you suggestions for the patcbay ?

Thanks again for the tip !

Kari

Kari,
on most patch-bays there is a filter for things like program changes, aftertouch, modulation, etc, so the patch-bay would be the only device authorized to send a program change command to your modules.
My patchbay is an old Miditemp PM88; it has a remote controller which is very handy and even an optional foot controller. I doubt that it's still in production, but I don't think that there is a difference in quality between different brands in this case, because the hardware is really very simple; they are just connections. All the "power" is inside the memory bank (mine has 128 banks), but in this case too the software is kind of simple.

Dreamer

Thanks again for the answer. Yes, I was aware about the filtering capability of Midi patcbays. However, I do not know how easy it is to activate filtering or deactivate it without using a remote controller ! I simply do not have space available for such.

Has your Miditemp PM88 been reliable ? I believe I once considered buying one, but found it a bit expensive. Additionally there was no dealer here for it, so I should have mail-ordered and I was a bit afraid of the realiability (or lack of it).

I believe currently there are more affordable Midi patcbays available. However, I remember reading posts about the unreliability of some of those, but I don't remember where that was or which one(s) were mentioned.

Kari

Kari,
on my Miditemp the remote controller is used to program the patches and call the different programs (you could do this also from your keyboard or from a sequencer, sending a program change number to the patch bay itself). Once you've programmed a patch (with filters and everything) you store it and you are set.
As I said, the hardware and the software are really simple; I don't know if I was lucky, but my Miditemp never gave me the slightest problem. Actually I don't even consider it as an electronic instrument; to me it's just something that routes signals. I am actually surprised to know that these kind of "things" can give problems of any kind.

Andrea,
Do you have a link for the midi patch bay you mentioned?
Never mind found it....seek and ye shall find...for anyone else interested: http://www.miditemp.com/

thanks,
Terry

[This message has been edited by trtjazz (edited 11-07-2002).]

Terry,
thanks for the link; now they call it Midi Matrix, and have improved the remote controller, but basically it's still the same unit I have (even the name is almost the same).