No surprise here. The Tyros has nothing to get me excited about except the quality of the drum sounds and styles. I still can't play the Yamaha AI chords, and refuse to relearn full fingered left hand chords at this age. I'll never need to play in a trio where I need to do that.

I had one here today to set up for a friend, so here's my review - based on 4 hrs or so of hands on experience.

1)better feel than the 2000, but not fabulous. The keys have a short travel distance to the bottom, just like the psr9k. never cared for that feel, but it IS better than the 2k.

2)drums are excellent. Maybe the best I've heard....even keel with the impact of the Ketron sounds,but better patterns and fills.

3)Grand piano is still a little weak for my taste. Doesn't play as well as the 9kpro. I even prefer the PA80 grand for expression.

4)VERY nice screen. Great info, but the tempo window is teeny-tiny.

5)transpose buttons are too close to the TEMPO buttons. Accidents waiting to happen.

6) we loaded 49 sequences into the internal memory before it filled up. NOt bad for internal.

7)Too much $$$$ for the extras you get over the 2100...I think

8)didn't play with the mic input, but I expect it to be comparable to the 2100....and that's pretty good.

9)reads from floppies very fast. Button placement is good. Case is too big and long. There should be built in speakers. Not the heavy boxes from the 9k, but the lightweight deals from the 2100.

** I liked it. The mega guitars are wonderful, but often WAY too loud in the arranger mix. Need loads of tweaking there.
If there was no alternative to the Ty, then it would sell better, but as long as the 2100 holds up...it will steal some potential customers. It's not worth twice the money for my taste, and it's still a SLIENT SLAB ! Arrrggggg

Hope you all love your Tys, but I think it was only slightly more than a lateral move over the 2k series. I'd rather have a 9kpro anyday.

Oh well.....
At least you got it out of the way...Next!!

As long as the 2100 doesn't have a HD option, it totally outrules itself as even a remote contender.

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Roy-Andrè

Who needs a HD when you have a laptop?
I also have no need for an onboard Sequencer in a keyboard. When will they just make an arranger with Great styles/sounds, solid keyfeel, onboard speakers and lightweight, and the smallest size possible. Everythig else can be done with a laptop.

I just read the review of the Tyros in Keyboard. I didn't really find anything to get excited about. Still rather have the 9000. If I wanted a fancy lift up console I'd get the KN-7000. That's really nice to play and has touch response on all the organs.

You're not too old to learn, UD. I'm still using full fingered left hand chords at 65, one of the reasons I got an arranger, though I always use it in full fingered mode.

Bryan

Totally disagree.
Having to plug in and out a lt everytime you wanna do some work on the keyboard, no matter how small or large the job is a pain.
With a HD, turn the keyboard on, work! No floppies, no lt connections. Tons of storage right in your keyboard for styles and files. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.

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Roy-Andrè

The laptop is so much more versatile & portable, to do so many different functions,
SMF, Mp3, Wav, Lyrics, Word Files, Recording, Sequencing, KB problem backup, etc, mostly while your playing the keyboard at the same time. If your not in a live performing situation its hard to see the importance of using a laptop on stage. Its a must have for me.



[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 08-18-2003).]

Uncle Dave,

I do appreciate your review. It seems to me the biggest complaint against Tyros is the price. Furthermore, it seems that the price is high because Yamaha has been invested lot of money in the research for styles and sounds. Now motif es is coming out and it is benefiting greatly from the work that has been done for Tyros. So motif users will be glad to know that it will less than the price of Tyros. I wish the cycle is different. I wish they produce the best motif first and motif users pay for the research and developement of it. Then a top arranger is produced on top of the best of motif for lower price.

I play out live quite a bit, and I use styles for traditional stuff and sing-a-longs, marches,etc, and midifiles for back-up when I play my guitar. Therefore I don't need anything else but my Tyros, it even gives me text and chords for backing me up when I get rusty in my brain. (Which happens quite often). When this MS3 becomes more available (that might prove to be the beginning of something that you can edit etc.) I will probably use a laptop too. But as long as MP3 locks you up with regards to editing, I'm not interested. For a back-up, I do agree, the laptop I guess, is handy. (So in the course of my writing, I gave in somewhat,Don!)


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Roy-Andrè

Keyboard mag just reviewed the KN7000 .

That's funny Uncle Dave, because I was just going to start a thread which was titled, "Falling In love with the Tyros all over again".

I hesitate to write it now as it will seem like a rebuttal to your post. I won't get into that since it's your opinion on how the Tyros fits into YOUR world.

As a gigging keyboardist and a student studying Jazz, the Tyros fits all my exacting needs.

I do get a kick out of those that say to add a LAPTOP their rig. How do you evaluate the cost of a keyboard when you add a $2000.00 laptop to augment it's functionality. Does that mean you compare the Tyros to a $3000 Laptop/PSR2100 combination?

Things that make you go hmmmmm....
Al

When you are a professional entertainer, making a living on stage, a few bucks invested to make you sucessfull for the long run is a requirment. It will also come back to you ten fold for sure. Like any business.
The Tyros IMO is just a little bit more [not much overall ]then the 2k, 21k, and I have played them all. We all do it differently...no matter what anyone says you have to do what "WORKS" for you!

I think the Tyros, even at $2,300 (streetprice) is a terrific keyboard value, and that its added features & improvements over the PSR2100, well worth the price difference.

I realize that we all perform to different audiences types, but for my shows, the laptop remains a hi tech gadget distraction that gets in the way between me and my audience. Even though people may be initially impressed by the hi tech gadgetry, the more the audience sees us relying on them, the more they become convinced that we're 'less musicians'. and more button pushing entertainment novelty acts (a half notch above karaoke entertainment). Audiences are smarter than we think. This may in fact be a reason audiences tend to 'tip more' when I play on an acoustic piano vs when performing on an arranger.

I personally find the most musically rewarding gig venues, going 'back to the basics' of playing the acoustic piano & vocals, and possibly adding a live acoustic bass player. Ahhh... the good old days.

Scott

My advice is to get an accordion. They see you pulling it in and out, the sweat beading on your brow, the showy glissandos and mastery of the complex-looking bass buttons and all they can do is tip.

As an interesting aside, my 80-year old father was in town and listened to me perform with my XD3 arranger and Petosa reedless digital accordion and said it was nice. When I played Sorrento on my Excelsior accoustic he said it was incredible. He far preferred the accoustic.

Either way, patrons tend to tip accordionists rather well because it's so different. As a performing musician, I tip ALL musicians well, including the 16 year-old Vietnamese boy playing piano in a Los Angeles Thai Restaurant last week. His, uh, rendition, of Let It Be was one of the more interesting things I have EVER heard on a musical instrument, but hell, he was out there trying and deserved encouragement!

As an aside, did anybody catch the National Anthem at the Tennessee Titans pre-season football game last weekend? A defensive end for the Titans played the anthem on his Sax. Just looking for opinions if anybody saw it.

Just what I think too! By the way, I don't understand...wrong, I DO understand why UD started this thread. He's been all over the Tyros since it came out, and this was a grand time for him to provoke some of us Tyros owners again. Well we didn't go for the bate, did we.......? Or did we???



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Roy-Andrè

What prompted that, Roy?

This has never been a contest or a challenge. I simply buy, test and report on all the new stuff as I can get to them. I have no allegience to brands or models, and I could care less if you like something I don't.

Please don't start these childish rumers about what it is, you PERCEIVE my intentions to be. You couldn't be more wrong.

This is all about an evening with a keyboard, and my reactions to it's value, playability and usefullness on stage. Nothing more.

I'm with Dnj on laptops. I use one with my 740, mainly because it gives me access to the whole synth via XGworks. I have 128 registration memories but with the laptop I can save thousands of .syx files with far more settings. And you don't have to fork out a lot of money. My laptop was $400US and has a PII/300 with 96Mb. More than enough for what I do. A bit slow for audio and the latest sequencers and softsynths but I don't use any of them. XGworks, Cakewalk and the SYXG50 do it all for me.

Bryan

Good luck Brian you seem to be enjoying the KB/LT combo as many of us are also.
It's deversetivity and ease of use is what I like the best.

Dave knows his stuff for sure. He tells it like it is from a professional point of view good or bad, unlike some magazines and other sources which are misleading to say the least. I for one value his opinions.

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 08-18-2003).]

Roy,

Uncle Dave review can be summarized as follows: "Tyros is an excellent keyboard; however, this is why I am not getting it personally." So it is contrary to your claim that he is trashing it. And remember people want different perspectives.


I have a question for Scottyee:

Does $2300 price for Tyros includes the hardrive, stand, and speakers? Because I saw Tyros advertised with all of these for 2700 and they included even a case. The problem is that no dealer has Tyros in my city. So I am giving everybody the benefit of the doubt about the styles and sounds of it. I listened to 2100 and I did not like it. Even PSR740 beats it in styles and sounds.

[This message has been edited by sk880user (edited 08-18-2003).]

sk880user: No, but personally I don't recommend the purchasing the Tyros specific stand, unless you just have a lot of extra $ to burn. Just about any generic keyboard stand will work with the Tyros fine. You can p/u a generic 20 Gb HD for about $80. I recommend the Hitachi/IBM TravelStar. The Tyros speakers can be had for about $130 dollars, but they're not a necessity if you already have another speaker output option. I still think the Tyros is well in line price wise compared to the other 'top of the line' model arranger kb competition. - Scott

Scott,

Thanks for the answer. I have more questions if you do not mind:

1) What about the sequencer? Can you copy, past, cut, move: notes or measures, from track to the same track, from track to a different track, from one song to another?

2) Does it have sample ram? can you load new songs?

3) how difficult is it to make new style? What tools are given for that?

4) Can the speaker outs be used as another main out? Can the volume for the speaker be controled separately than the other outs? Can tracks be selectively be routed to different or any outs?

5) Does it have a synth built in?

Sorry for asking these questions. but I do not have in my city any dealer who carries Tryos, genesys or any ketron products. I buy by faith.

I

NNNNNOOOOOOOOOO WAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!! sk880user. They are asking $2,799 at Guitar Center and it is just a bare bones offering. Music123.com was asking $2,495 when it first came out. They might be charging more now due to the fact the Tyros was awarded "Arranger Keyboard of the Year" for 2003. Again, that was just the Keyboard and NOTHING, NADA, ZILCH, ZIPPO, GOOSE EGG, THE BIG ZERO, 0, THE BIG VACUUM OF THE GREAT "OUT THERE SOMEWHERE" but not in my lifetime, ELSE!!!

I agree; I think it is way over priced for what you get. But if people continue to buy it for whatever reason, Yamaha will continue to charge you handsomely for it. If the sales were not near as good as expected, I could almost guarantee you the price would have dropped drastically; and the funny thing is, Yamaha would still have turned a big profit on each and every one sold even with a drastic drop in price.

PS: I am not trying to trash Yammie. On the contrary, more power to them for marketing the Tyros in such a way that scores of Musicians lined up on the waiting list even before it was released, plunking their money down sight unseen to get the Tyros. And although the Tyros has some great sounds and many wonderful Styles, IMO the Tyros has some serious drawbacks and limitations that are not found on some of their other Arranger Keyboards. And yes, one of the big drawbacks is the price. So as the story goes not all of us were fooled.

Best regards,
Mike

Another PS: If you love your Tyros and couldn't be happier with the purchase of it, then I am happy for you too. Please don't get upset and defensive at me for just sharing my opinion with you about how "I" feel about the Tyros.

SK880 User: Are you certain you gave the 21K a true test? I had a 740, 9000, 2000 and now a 2100 (at least temporarily). There are a couple of styles on the 740 they left off, but it's a simple matter to put them on the 21K. To my ears, many of the sounds are the same, but the 2100 seems to be a clear winner on many others. The new Sweet Harmonica, Jazz Guitars, Slide Guitar, and several Organs really kick!
On the styles carried over from the 740, Yamaha has, IMO, improved them quite a bit by subtle changes in instrumentation, balance and effects.
The vocal processor and harmonizer are tons better than the 740. The only thing I miss from the 740 is the keypad.
Just curious, because your observation was truly shocking to me, and I always value your opinions.
DonM
P.S. Almost forgot--I played the Tyros for several hours. I feel the hard drive capability, improved drums, mega voices, big screen, etc., etc. are well worth the difference in price. But I still can't afford one right now!



[This message has been edited by DonM (edited 08-18-2003).]

Idatrod,

So the 2300 price from scott might be a good deal after all. I was going to call George Kay

DonM,

I am very famous for changing my opinion especially when I did not get the chance to play long with it. Remember when I blasted 740 before I fell in love with it. No question asked that 2100/2000 are major improvements over 740. Concerning styles and sounds, it could be that the speakers I did not like. Also, it seems to me they took out some ballad styles from 2100. And you know how much I am in love with Ballad styles. But again I need to give it another listen. In the mean time, I listened to one of your performances, "come into my heart-Elvis Presly?" Your performance is wonderful. May I give you some chords that are more "minor-ish" and if you have the time to repeat the performance? so one will be major based and the other will be minor based.

[This message has been edited by sk880user (edited 08-18-2003).]

I would love the chords!
BTW, there is a new ballad style on the 2100, I think called Classic Piano Ballad, that is really awesome.
Donm

Pilot,
I like your setup. I own a Korg I30 and Trinity, but Im really short on space(bedroom) to do all my recordings.
I was thinking, if I can sell my i30 and trinity and buy a used laptop like yours, what would be the keyboard that you recommend to use with the laptop and xg works? What I mean is, would any of yamahas higher end keyboards work better, or would it be the same as the 740?
What im looking for, is being able to have nice effects on the drums and separate effects for the accompany parts...
Thanks for any imput...

best,
musikman

Hi MusikMan,

That's a difficult question to answer as it involves personal taste to some degree. I find that the 740 is more ergonomic for my needs which is why I chose it over the 2000. The laptop/XGworks/740 system is an excellent match because the display and the access to the synth is limited. With my updates to XGworks I get access to just about the whole synth and the laptop is like an extended display, never mind all the extra facilities in XGworks. When you move up to the 2000 and above you get more access to the synth on the display but not all of it. XGworks will fill in the gaps but you still need the updates as it has nothing at all for the 2000 and not much for any of the other PSRs. It's still a good match but there are 15 more basic effects in the 2000 which XGworks can't handle properly due to limitations in its design. For anything with more than five DSPs (such as the 9000) there are even more limitations. Also, the XG editor only generates Yamaha sysex so it wouldn't be much good for other manufacturers' keyboards.

Bryan

What I forgot to mention is where Cakewalk comes in. Since XGworks only covers XG and wasn't designed with PSRs in mind, some features are missing, particularly Organ Flutes and styles which have their own set of sysex. There are a lot of excellent Cakewalk Studioware panels for the 740 (which will also work on the 2000) which handle such things as Organ Flutes. I use MidiOx and MidiYoke to connect both XGworks and Cakewalk to the 740 simultaneously to use these features. Hubi's Loopback will work just as well but I like the extra features of MidiOx. The panels will work in all levels of Cakewalk and if you have the Pro version you can design your own panels to do just about anything. Cakewalk also has CAL which is a very powerful programming language.

Bryan