I'm losing faith Frank. We finaly got a full size monitor and went at the soft arranger concept again. It just doesn't cut it. As you know, I purchased Synergi wave table, and It just doesn't sound "right". I don't have my Yammie in the same location as my computer, so I can't compare, but the PSR550 plays styles way better then the FLR. Sigh!!! I suspect it's the XG voices. Also I am using "Live Styler" and it keeps erroring out. Is it because it is not registered?
Starkeeper

[This message has been edited by Starkeeper (edited 09-24-2004).]

Starkeeper, it is to bad you are losing faith. I am not. I have been at it for a number of years and would not go back to any of the current top of the line hardware based solutions. I am not the only one that thinks this way. As I have pointed out in the past the serious composers, screen writers and live performers use the softsynth approach. This is for a reason - the quality of virtual acoustic instruments is so so so much better with a softsynth, e.g., Bardstown Bosendorfer Piano, Worra's pianos, VRSounds Saxes and so on and on.

I would say the sYnerGi GS wavetable with a few changes greatly exceeds the quality of any XG hardware based wavetable. Also keep in mind, I recommended the use of sYnerGi GS for the XG Drum compatibility in the days before we had OMB. Now you don't need to use it. You can make your own wavetable from scratch and easily exceed any of the big name arranger/workstation keyboards.

But each to his own. I would put my system up to any of yours - anytime anywhere.

The quality of sound is also dependent on your audio equipment and your soundcard. Having said that, you should beable to equal the sound of the Tyros with a run of the mill Dell computer. Now my system is many notches above this in quality - so I am a little spoilt I guess.

Furthermore, the quality of effects can improve the quality of the sound.

Starkeeper, if you are happy with your PSR then you should stay with it. These arrangers are as good as any of the hardware versions of them.


[This message has been edited by Frank L. Rosenthal (edited 09-24-2004).]

Hi Frank & Starkeeper,
I'm really happy with my OMB software and using my clp170's xg sounds. I've got the Synergi also, but I tend to agree it doesn't sound quite right when used with the psr styles ( too brash sounding). No doubt they could be edited, but for time being it's easier to use my clp's sounds. ( Sorry Frank)
I do like the Sound Fonts for BIAB and midifiles so I'm still hanging in there.

best wishes
rikki


[QUOTE]Originally posted by Starkeeper:
[b]

[This message has been edited by rikkisbears (edited 09-24-2004).]

Hi Frank,
I've been trialing the Hypercanvas, but I think it's going to require too much editing( plus I'm not a great fan of the piano sound).
I'm by no means giving up on the soundfonts etc for midifiles, BIAB, and Jammer, but I really do like the xg sounds in my piano for use with omb ( far easier to edit psr styles in xg format an ) .

It's just a real pity Yamaha hasn't got a decent soft synth or vst/dxi plug in. I may look at a sound module like the mu15 and a small midi controller and hopefully one day Yamaha will have a vst/dxi plug in..

The DGX sounded like really good value, but maybe 76 notes isn't really all that portable. May have to rethink that one as I don't think it's going to fit in the car ( the weight factor was terrific), along with the dog, bird/cage and luggage on road trips ( haahaa).

You'll be surprised to hear that all my arranger keyboards are now gone. My KN7 went this week.

best wishes
rikki


[QUOTE]Originally posted by Frank L. Rosenthal:
[

Rikki, wow your arrangers are all gone!!! Amazing.

It is starting to look like I should keep my advice to myself. Two of you are saying the sYnerGi GS wavetable does not sound that good. I wonder why that is:

Are you using high/good quality effects, e.g., chorus and reverbs?

Are you using high/good quality equalizer?

If you are not this could improve the quality of your sound. Keep in mind that when you use a Yamaha keyboard you end up with at least their default effects. This is much better than none.

But it is all in the ears of the beholder. I found the sYnerGi GS right out of the box not that bad - with effects applied. I have since modified this wavetable considerably. You should know the modifications are as simple as removing say a piano you do not like and replacing it with one that you may like better. Using something like Soundfaction's Alive this would take all of 25 seconds. Furthermore, you could always invest in something like Kontakt and premium voices, e.g., Bardstown's Bosendorfer piano for your melody/lead/left hand virtual instruments.

Well, may be I should just remain silent on this subject!!! The last thing I want to do is mislead people and at worst cause them to spend money on things that do not work for them. Sorry if I caused you significant problems and financial pain.


[This message has been edited by Frank L. Rosenthal (edited 09-24-2004).]

Hi Frank,
first time I've been without an arranger keyboard for at least 15 years. I've got OMB though, and it'll keep me busy.

I do have the Alive software, but I'm a bit concerned that I'll get too wrapped up in collecting samples etc and end up not playing music again. ( I have a bad habit of getting side tracked). Down the track when I have more spare time I hope to get more involved.

I want something a bit more permanent to use with omb styles. May do a bit more experimenting with Hypercanvas. Forgot I could edit the drum tracks fairly easily with omb's track conversion facility. Actually maybe doing the synergi drums that way may improve the overall mix also. The sampled drums tend to be too full on, not quite used to them, they seem to drown each other out.

I checked out the MU15 . Didn't realize it only had 32 note polyphony. I think I will stick to the software solution, I'm just going through
" no arranger keyboards left " withdrawl symptoms haahaa.

As for your advice, it's most appreciated. Software solutions have cost me far less money than 3 top end arrangers ( haahaa)

best wishes
Rikki

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Frank L. Rosenthal:
[b]Rikki, wow your arrangers are all gone!!! Amazing.



[This message has been edited by rikkisbears (edited 09-25-2004).]

where can I find OMB software,do they have a demo?

Rikki, you just reminded me that I also adjusted the balance (volumes) within the styles to suit my needs. This you would need to do with any new or different wavetable that you choose to use. You would also need to change the balance if you change instruments within a wavetable, e.g., a different piano.

And you are right, in that, to make the software approach work for you, one needs to invest some time and understanding at the front end. If you just want to make music this approach is not for you!!!!!!! I nonetheless will keep recommending the software based approach and don't mind investing the time and money given the very high quality of the results. In other words I am willing to invest the time and money it takes to play pianos that sound like pianos, saxes that almost sound like saxes and so on.

In my previous post on effects, I should have added that it is not enough to check mark the effects in LiveSynth Pro. If the soundfonts do not have the reverb and chorus parameters set within each instrument you will end up with no effects. You could also end up with poor effects. As a result, I leave these effects boxes unchecked and use good quality effects within forte Ensemble, e.g., UltraFunk Sonitus Fx (Reverb, delays, chorus, equalizers, etc.).

jamman, you can get OMB from this web site: http://www.1manband.nl/


[This message has been edited by Frank L. Rosenthal (edited 09-25-2004).]

I fooled around with the Yamaha at Sam's Club. I couldn't get it to allow me to play two voices. Can it? I had to reach way up to see it, so it was cumbersome. It was set up high so kids wouldn't screw it up. I mean, like play piano and strings at same time. Well, actually, I did do it but it only played piano in right hand. Maybe you have to invoke this through auto-accompaniment with a style?

Yes, it's listed as a layered voice and is easily accessed.

Gary