Went grocery shopping at BJ's Wholesale Club today and though it was hard to believe, they're already put their Christmas stuff on teh shelves. This included several inexpensive keyboards, both Yamaha and Casio. Sitting there nice and pretty was a brand new Yamaha DGX-505 for $550. This included a custom wooden stand, piano bench, and all the goodies.



The irony of all this the keys, which are the size and weight that Uncle Dave was looking for. Additionally, it has USB and Smart Media card storage capability, 76 keys and lots of other neat features. However, Dave will not like the polyphony, which is just 32 notes. The built in speakers are large, sounded great and after a few minutes of playing, I had a crowd of onlookers standing behind me and asking questions about the board that I could not answer.

Here are the specifications:
Keyboard 88 Lightly weighted, Piano-type Keys (A-1 - C7) with Touch Response
Display Large Backlit bitmapped LCD displays lyrics and score
SmartMedia™ 128MB max. for storing songs and styles (card optional)
Flash Rom 875 KB for storing songs
Pitch Bend Wheel For more realistic playing of brass and string instruments
Yamaha Education Suite IV Timing, Waiting, Minus One, Chord Dictionary, Grading, Repeat & Learn, Your Tempo
Songs 30 + 70 on CD-ROM + 5 user songs. Supported formats:
General MIDI (SMF), XGlite, XF
Performance Assistant: On/Off
Voices Total Number 494
Compatibility General MIDI (GM) & XGlite Compatible
Piano Voice Quality Stereo
Sweet! Voices Flute, Pan Flute, Trumpet, Soprano Sax, Tenor Sax
Cool! Voices Galaxy EP, Suitcase EP, Electric Piano, Organ
Live! Voices Piano, Warm Grand, Orchestra
Dual/Split Yes/Yes
Drum Kits 10 + 2 SFX Kits
Polyphony 32 note max.
Auto Accompaniment Styles 135
Variations Intro, Main A/B, Ending, Fill-in x 2
Control Accompaniment on/off, sync-start, start/stop, intro/ending, main A/B (auto fill)
One Touch Settings 1 per style
Registration Memory 2 x 8 Banks
Digital Effects Reverb: 9 types
Chorus: 4 types
Harmony: 26 types
Sequencer 6-Tracks to record your own songs
5 songs
Interface USB MIDI IN/OUT, USB Song Transfer
Auxiliary Jack Phones, DC in, foot switch
Amplifier 6W + 6W
Speakers 12 cm x 2 + 3 cm x 2
Rated Voltage DC 10 - 12 V
Dimensions
(W x D x H) 54 1/8" x 17" x 6 3/4" (1376 x 431 x 173 mm)
Dimensions
with Stand 54 1/8" x 19 1/8" x 31 2/3" (1376 x 485 x 804 mm)
Weight 29 lbs. 12 oz. (13.5kg)
Weight
with Stand 46 lbs. 5 oz. (21kg)

For someone that cannot afford the PSR-3000 or Tyros, this may be just what Santa Yamaha had in mind.

Gary

[This message has been edited by travlin'easy (edited 09-21-2004).]

I saw one in Sam's Club two months ago and played some for my brother and he said WOW, that sounds GOOD! I thought it sounded pretty good too. I wonder how this compares to my old psr740. I was impressed with the keys.

good keys,good piano +other sound for the price,xg light, some sweet and cool voices,SM media,can play style files,light for 76 keys(305 model) and great price(305 model-around 400$)
good display


-cons

only 2 variations
can't write styles
6 trk sequencer
no pads
no mod wheel

but it's the best bang for the buck.

Does this mean that the keys on the DGX are better (in terms of feel) than those on (for example) the PSR 2000?

The size of the DGX keys is "full" (that's what they mean with "piano-size"), not the smaller keys of the PSR line. In terms of feel I find them pretty similar: very light. Overall, slighly better in the DGX.

-- José.

[This message has been edited by Route 66 (edited 09-22-2004).]

Well this brings up a very interesting point. If Yamaha can put full size keys and all these wonderful features in a $550.00 keyboard, why the heck can't they create an upscale keyboard "Tyros Pro" with this configuration with a modest increase in price?

I just don't get it? ;-(

Al

It's one of the first things I noticed. They CAN do it. My only answer is it's like a car. Once it's tooled up, it's a big deal to change. And they DON'T until they have to. Except that with a keyboard, it seems it wouldn't be THAT big of a deal. I dunno.

I believe that Yamaha has over-extended itself and can no longer provide the level of help that high-end arrangers require. This was all too apparent with the 9000 Pro, where things were promised like voice editors and never delivered, and products like the PLG expansion cards were developed to go with multiple Yamaha keyboards including the 9000 Pro but the documentation never materialized (I wonder if the new PLG150-AP expansion card has any documentation on how to specifically use it with the 9000 Pro - likely not). And watching what Scott Yee is going through with his Tyros makes me more aware of just how easy it is for regional technicians to screw things up (Scott's Tyros USB modification had a diode installed backwards, forcing the instrument to be sent back to Yamaha for repair). Multiply Scott's problem times the number of Tyros users and you get a small taste of what Yamaha has to contend with... and Scott lives near Yamaha's best US reps and technicians - the rest of us would be without our instruments for weeks if something similar happened.

Yamaha suffers from it's own giganticism - I imagine every product it makes being like a giant balloon at a Macy's parade that requires hundreds of handlers to keep it afloat. Obviously Yamaha could make a Tyros Pro from existing technology and parts if they wanted to and there seems to be demand for one - so why hasn't it happened? Methinks it has to be lack of support persons and people who write the technical and owner's manuals. There may be a related high turnover of product managers too. I suspect that a Tyros Pro will come someday but that it'll be after they've got the bugs and technical flaws worked out of the original Tyros, and that hasn't happened yet.

[This message has been edited by The Pro (edited 09-22-2004).]

Not much if any IMHO. I played the DGX 505 at GC. After I noticed the Keys were "less than ideal" I quickly scurried away to another Keyboard. The Piano sound is pretty good though. You do get 88 Keys, BUT if you are a Piano aficionado and like a real Piano Key feel then you will be sadly disappointed with the DGX-505 IMO.

Yamaha plainly states on their web site that the DGX-305 AND the 505 are for beginners (novices and home hobbyists who aren't concerned about the intricacies and advantages of Professional level features in a Keyboard): who want a good (minus good key feel ) starter Keyboard that excels in the Piano sound department and has 88 keys (DGX-505). The DGX-305 has 76 Keys of course.

Best regards,
Mike



[This message has been edited by keybplayer (edited 09-22-2004).]

Gary,

I thought you were going to tell us that U.D. was growing hair on his head.

Tom

Hi,
just wondering what the difference is between xg & xg lite ie is it to do with the number of sounds or more so to do with effects etc

Also what type of styles do the piano's use ie would they load a psr style??

best wishes
Rikki

Where is Steve Demming when you need him?

OK, I'll try to answer as many questions as I can.

Rikki: I have no idea what XG-Lite means, however, I can honestly tell you that the sounds coming from the board, both from the individual voices and styles were good to excellent quality. Additionally, the styles themselves included some that were not on the Tyros or 3000--totally new arrangements with many of them.

Tom: I'm pretty good at cooking up a batch of Kickapoo Joy Juice, but hair restorer? NAH!

Mike: It's not a piano--it's a synth. I don't believe anyone would expect the keys to be anything like piano keys. However, they were considerably more firm than those on the 2000, 2100, 3000 and Tyros. I did feel a noticeable difference. And, as you know, to me, it doesn't make a bit of difference.

Al: Why there is no uniformity in key size or touch sensitivity between models is beyond me--I don't have a clue, and I sincerely don't believe anyone else knows the rationale behind this as well.

Jim: I agree wholeheartedly. Yamaha's support leaves a lot to be desired, even for their top of the line boards. However, I believe you'll find this is the case with everything these days--including motor vehicles. It's unfortunatel, but true. That's why I have always recommended that anyone who is doing this for a living should have back-ups. I know that you and I both could not go more than 24 hours without having a keyboard.

Mike again: As for using the machine on the job, I would not hesitate to use it at all. Granted, it will not do what a Tyros or 3000 will do, however, in the hands of a good performer, it's more than adequate.

Bottom line: For the money, it's the best thing out there--bar none. In fact, I'm thinking about buying one for the family room and hooking it up to the Z-2200s. (Sure hope she doesn't log onto this site tonight!)

Gary

Gary,

Steve is hanging out at the www.arrangerworkstation.com site. If you post this message on the Tyros forum over there, he'll answer immediately.

Steve actually just got me some new music stand brackets for my Tyros.

Al

No he won't. Look under "freebies" and you'll see my post asking about the feasibility of a 76-note arranger workstation.

I'll take a stab at comparing XG lite with full XG voices.
XG lite is for playback only, no editing. The Roland EXR's have XG lite with no editing. It will be able to play back MIDI files with XG voices.
Full XG Voices allows editing with an XG editor, like XG Works.
Starkeeper

I have been admiring the DGX-500 series keys for quite some time on my previous posts and finally another person feels the same way. The key feel is just great.

This might be a toss up with the CASIO WK3000 series.

Rikki,

The XG standard includes a lot of technical details, but for the purpose of this conversation, it basically means a minimum of 480 voices, arranged in a standard (ala GM) order with a minimum amount of control parameters. XGlite doesn't implement all the control parameters.

Steve


------------------
Yamaha Customer Support
YCASupport@yamaha.com
714.522.9000

Esh,

I will answer, I just won't discuss when Yamaha will be releasing future product. I was trying to tell you that I can't discuss it, without leading you to believe that there might be something on the horizon.

Steve

------------------
Yamaha Customer Support
YCASupport@yamaha.com
714.522.9000

Hi Guys,
thanks to everyone that answered on the xg lite question.

As for the styles question, it appears that I may have found the answer in the DGX505 Manual on page60. It appears that it can load .sty files via the multi media card. STYLE 136 appears to be a User Style.It has limitations as I think it only has 1 Intro & Ending and 2 variations and fills.
I could live with that. OMB's editing facilities can easily overcome that problem, plus there's all the great programs written by Michael Bedderson , and by Jorgeon.

Haven't worked my way through the whole manual yet, but sounds pretty interesting.

I've slowly been converting my psr styles to work with OMB & my clp170. If the sounds are similar ( the clp's got xg or xglite ? not sure which) certainly would be a great portable back up.

best wishes
Rikki




[This message has been edited by rikkisbears (edited 09-23-2004).]

Rikki, just design your own GM/XG wavetable and use a softsynth. The sounds will be much better - plus it is very easy to carry around, i.e., the bits weigh 0 pounds. A midi controller keyboard weighs less than an arranger or workstation. Therefore your net loss in weight could be many pounds. Rikki you can't lose.

In fact, I would say the Roland HQ Hyper Canvas 26mb wavetable sounds better than the 4mb Yamaha XG, i.e., virtual acoustic instruments sound closer to the real acoustic instruments. Now with OMB you can convert the Yamaha drums in the styles to GM and use this wavetable.

You see if I keep at this, Rikki will just give up and use a dumb keyboard and a computer to do everything and do it much better. It could happen!!!

I'm losing faith Frank. We finaly got a full size monitor and went at the soft arranger concept again. It just doesn't cut it. As you know, I purchased Synergi wave table, and It just doesn't sound "right". I don't have my Yammie in the same location as my computer, so I can't compare, but the PSR550 plays styles way better then the FLR. Sigh!!! I suspect it's the XG voices. Also I am using "Live Styler" and it keeps erroring out. Is it because it is not registered?
Starkeeper

[This message has been edited by Starkeeper (edited 09-24-2004).]

Starkeeper, it is to bad you are losing faith. I am not. I have been at it for a number of years and would not go back to any of the current top of the line hardware based solutions. I am not the only one that thinks this way. As I have pointed out in the past the serious composers, screen writers and live performers use the softsynth approach. This is for a reason - the quality of virtual acoustic instruments is so so so much better with a softsynth, e.g., Bardstown Bosendorfer Piano, Worra's pianos, VRSounds Saxes and so on and on.

I would say the sYnerGi GS wavetable with a few changes greatly exceeds the quality of any XG hardware based wavetable. Also keep in mind, I recommended the use of sYnerGi GS for the XG Drum compatibility in the days before we had OMB. Now you don't need to use it. You can make your own wavetable from scratch and easily exceed any of the big name arranger/workstation keyboards.

But each to his own. I would put my system up to any of yours - anytime anywhere.

The quality of sound is also dependent on your audio equipment and your soundcard. Having said that, you should beable to equal the sound of the Tyros with a run of the mill Dell computer. Now my system is many notches above this in quality - so I am a little spoilt I guess.

Furthermore, the quality of effects can improve the quality of the sound.

Starkeeper, if you are happy with your PSR then you should stay with it. These arrangers are as good as any of the hardware versions of them.


[This message has been edited by Frank L. Rosenthal (edited 09-24-2004).]

Hi Frank & Starkeeper,
I'm really happy with my OMB software and using my clp170's xg sounds. I've got the Synergi also, but I tend to agree it doesn't sound quite right when used with the psr styles ( too brash sounding). No doubt they could be edited, but for time being it's easier to use my clp's sounds. ( Sorry Frank)
I do like the Sound Fonts for BIAB and midifiles so I'm still hanging in there.

best wishes
rikki


[QUOTE]Originally posted by Starkeeper:
[b]

[This message has been edited by rikkisbears (edited 09-24-2004).]

Hi Frank,
I've been trialing the Hypercanvas, but I think it's going to require too much editing( plus I'm not a great fan of the piano sound).
I'm by no means giving up on the soundfonts etc for midifiles, BIAB, and Jammer, but I really do like the xg sounds in my piano for use with omb ( far easier to edit psr styles in xg format an ) .

It's just a real pity Yamaha hasn't got a decent soft synth or vst/dxi plug in. I may look at a sound module like the mu15 and a small midi controller and hopefully one day Yamaha will have a vst/dxi plug in..

The DGX sounded like really good value, but maybe 76 notes isn't really all that portable. May have to rethink that one as I don't think it's going to fit in the car ( the weight factor was terrific), along with the dog, bird/cage and luggage on road trips ( haahaa).

You'll be surprised to hear that all my arranger keyboards are now gone. My KN7 went this week.

best wishes
rikki


[QUOTE]Originally posted by Frank L. Rosenthal:
[

Rikki, wow your arrangers are all gone!!! Amazing.

It is starting to look like I should keep my advice to myself. Two of you are saying the sYnerGi GS wavetable does not sound that good. I wonder why that is:

Are you using high/good quality effects, e.g., chorus and reverbs?

Are you using high/good quality equalizer?

If you are not this could improve the quality of your sound. Keep in mind that when you use a Yamaha keyboard you end up with at least their default effects. This is much better than none.

But it is all in the ears of the beholder. I found the sYnerGi GS right out of the box not that bad - with effects applied. I have since modified this wavetable considerably. You should know the modifications are as simple as removing say a piano you do not like and replacing it with one that you may like better. Using something like Soundfaction's Alive this would take all of 25 seconds. Furthermore, you could always invest in something like Kontakt and premium voices, e.g., Bardstown's Bosendorfer piano for your melody/lead/left hand virtual instruments.

Well, may be I should just remain silent on this subject!!! The last thing I want to do is mislead people and at worst cause them to spend money on things that do not work for them. Sorry if I caused you significant problems and financial pain.


[This message has been edited by Frank L. Rosenthal (edited 09-24-2004).]

Hi Frank,
first time I've been without an arranger keyboard for at least 15 years. I've got OMB though, and it'll keep me busy.

I do have the Alive software, but I'm a bit concerned that I'll get too wrapped up in collecting samples etc and end up not playing music again. ( I have a bad habit of getting side tracked). Down the track when I have more spare time I hope to get more involved.

I want something a bit more permanent to use with omb styles. May do a bit more experimenting with Hypercanvas. Forgot I could edit the drum tracks fairly easily with omb's track conversion facility. Actually maybe doing the synergi drums that way may improve the overall mix also. The sampled drums tend to be too full on, not quite used to them, they seem to drown each other out.

I checked out the MU15 . Didn't realize it only had 32 note polyphony. I think I will stick to the software solution, I'm just going through
" no arranger keyboards left " withdrawl symptoms haahaa.

As for your advice, it's most appreciated. Software solutions have cost me far less money than 3 top end arrangers ( haahaa)

best wishes
Rikki

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Frank L. Rosenthal:
[b]Rikki, wow your arrangers are all gone!!! Amazing.



[This message has been edited by rikkisbears (edited 09-25-2004).]

where can I find OMB software,do they have a demo?

Rikki, you just reminded me that I also adjusted the balance (volumes) within the styles to suit my needs. This you would need to do with any new or different wavetable that you choose to use. You would also need to change the balance if you change instruments within a wavetable, e.g., a different piano.

And you are right, in that, to make the software approach work for you, one needs to invest some time and understanding at the front end. If you just want to make music this approach is not for you!!!!!!! I nonetheless will keep recommending the software based approach and don't mind investing the time and money given the very high quality of the results. In other words I am willing to invest the time and money it takes to play pianos that sound like pianos, saxes that almost sound like saxes and so on.

In my previous post on effects, I should have added that it is not enough to check mark the effects in LiveSynth Pro. If the soundfonts do not have the reverb and chorus parameters set within each instrument you will end up with no effects. You could also end up with poor effects. As a result, I leave these effects boxes unchecked and use good quality effects within forte Ensemble, e.g., UltraFunk Sonitus Fx (Reverb, delays, chorus, equalizers, etc.).

jamman, you can get OMB from this web site: http://www.1manband.nl/


[This message has been edited by Frank L. Rosenthal (edited 09-25-2004).]

I fooled around with the Yamaha at Sam's Club. I couldn't get it to allow me to play two voices. Can it? I had to reach way up to see it, so it was cumbersome. It was set up high so kids wouldn't screw it up. I mean, like play piano and strings at same time. Well, actually, I did do it but it only played piano in right hand. Maybe you have to invoke this through auto-accompaniment with a style?

Yes, it's listed as a layered voice and is easily accessed.

Gary

I have a Yamaha DGX505, and was wondering how I could get a decent Hammond B3 sound on it. If anyone could help I would really appreciate it.
I was told to look into Sound Fonts but I don't think this one will take such a thing. Is that right?

Thanks,
Scott

Here's my 2 cents. In October of 2004 I bought a DGX 505. I just started gigging at that time and thought might be an Ok board. The DGX 505 is decent for the money and I played half dozen jobs with it. It's not a bad sounding board, it just doesn't have enough styles and voices. For a pianist the keys as others have said better than what's on the PSR. but the action still too light for my taste. A few months later I traded it for Casio PRivia px400r. The action on it much better, but the styles and voices left a lot to be desired. I then bought the PSR 3000, 61 keys leave something to be desired, but I've adjusted. I'm happy with the 3000, but that never ending search for the perfect board continues.

Maybe I'm missing something, but if Yammie can make the 505 and retail it for $550. Why can't they make a board like the 3000 withm 88 keys and an action like in the 505 and sell that for about $1795???



[This message has been edited by Stephenm52 (edited 05-09-2006).]

Just about a year ago, some of Yamaha's designers came to my store to discuss the next generation Yamaha PSR keyboards. Most of our discussion was to put the PSR3000 in a DGX505 keyboard design with 88 keys, not necessarily a weighted key action but rather the semi weighted action. I said to do it for around $1795.00 and they could sell alot!
It's exactly what the last post here suggested.
Let's see if where right!
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California

I am glad someone else has found the Voices in the Privia 400r poor I thought it was just my ear.
I'm in heaven with my PSR3000.
The Tyros2 has just arrived at our local store in Hobart.
WOW!!!!
Local price is $AUST6000 well out of my price range.

Cousin Ken

Your not going to get decent B3 sounds out of a DGX505.
You can't load sound fonts in a DGX505 either. Whoever told you to use sound fonts, problably meant for you to install them on a computer with a soundcard, amplifier/speakers, etc.
Starkeeper
P.S. talk about reviving an old post.

[This message has been edited by Starkeeper (edited 05-10-2006).]

Yamaha DGX505 Portable Keyboard Closeout Reg. $899.95
Our Price: $549.00


The DGX505 is a piano-focused keyboard with 88 piano-style keys, wooden stand and sustain pedal. Innovative features include notation display, USB for instant computer connectivity and SmartMedia for storing more >
Free Shipping!
Was in my email this morning for musician 123
Bebop

I tried out a DGX-505 alongside a Privia PX-555R (same as 400R) and a Roland FP-2. The sounds on the 505 trumped both of 'em, and came within 85% or so of a P250. 90+% with a pair of headphones. (P250 is 70+ lbs. and about $1900.)

The speakers are larger on the 505 than either the Privia or the FP-2, and they have separate tweeters. This isn't just a volume issue; it affects quality. This accounts for nearly all the sound difference between the FP-2 and the 505. Through headphones, they're very close.

The wind sounds on the Privia are very "flat" and uninteresting compared to "sweet/cool" sounds on the 505. So the Privia loses two ways in the sound department.

Speakers on the 505 are just baaaaarely large enough on the 505 you might consider gigging with it in a small room. Of course, the Privia and the FP-2 win in the hammer action department.

The DGX-500 is basically the 505 without the sweet/cool/live sounds, but with a real disk drive instead of the SmartMedia jobbie, and with real MIDI IN/OUT instead of USB. Real MIDI is better because you can get an inexpensive MIDI to USB connector, but to go the other way you need a computer in the loop.

So all in all, the 500 might be a better choice for some people. You can get them new on eBay for just under $500 including S&H. OTOH, those sweet/cool voices really are sweet and cool.

Yamaha is coming out with upgrades to the DGX line next month. The YPG-625 will basically be a DGX-505 with Graded Hammer Standard (GHS) action, somewhat improved sounds (I guess) and no disk drive. It will weight 39.2 lbs. (I think -- there are conflicting reports) and cost about $750 incl. stand and pedal. There is also the YPG-525 (synth action, $600) and the YPG-225 (76 key version, $350). A google will bring up several stores taking pre-orders.

Rick