After watching the posts of Frank Rosenthal and even some of my own, when evaluating my setup, I would say that my pc has truly become a hybrid soft synth / arranger, and probably if I look back it has been going that way for a while.

I use the word hybrid because I still primarily use two hardware pieces as sound modules for acoustic sounds, the Motif ES and occasionally the PA80. I have not gone the Gigasampler / Sampletank route to date, but it may happen in the near future. I do use the Yamaha SYXG-50 xg based soft synth module, but only because the superior syxg100 has no support for windows xp. I also have the Sound Canvas soft synth, and use it on occasion as well.

I use soundfonts as well, but not with my Soundblaster Live card. The SB live does not seem to like the environment in my new PC, at least not with the updated SB XP drivers. It functions with them, but it gets cranky and makes odd sounds at times. I just installed the non SB KX drivers, and how well they work remains to be seen. My Midiman audiophile card works just fine though.

I now use a couple of vst soundfont hosts. The one I like in particular is Crystal. It is a freeware hybrid analog modeling / sample based synthesizer and surely one of the best around. I would certainly pay a good buck for it if it were a commercial product, and indeed hope to donate something back to the developer. Tim Conrardy, who hosts the Atari - midi sites, has done a lot of programming for it ( he is not the developer ). It can use generated analog modeled waves, or sounfont samples, or a combination of the two. It is every bit as sophisticated as my Motif ES with the analog modeling board installed, when it comes to sound design, and in some ways much more. In fact, it is so much easier and quicker to introduce new samples ( ok soundfonts ) into it than it is with the Motif, and so many parameters can be adjusted quickly on the fly. You can do it almost instantly, unlike the architecture of the Motif which is simple enough but requires several steps. Rounding out my soft synth collection is the excellent freeware Superwave 8, which has inspired me to purchase it's even more sophisticated commercial cousin somewhere in the very near future, along with the Arturia Moog and CSv80 softsynths and the Pro 53 and Novation V station. RGC Pentagon, a rather inexpensive soft synth, is also excellent. All of these produce some very good synth sounds that can rival almost any hardware and exceed much of it. My ES and it's analog plug in board can't touch some of these for authentic vintage Synth emulations. The B4 demo ( B3 / C3 emulator ) is awesome, and is next on the list.

As far the arranger part, One Man band does the Yamaha styles in real time. It's interface is easy enough that I feel I could play it in a real time, live situation using a softsynth and good sound module. What is more challenging is matching the right sounds / setups to my sound module, but I am going to edit enough styles so that I can use it as an emergency backup to my PA80, with a laptop and the Motif ES as it's sound module. OF course, I also have the non real time arrangers, XG works sequencer, band in A Box, and Jammer pro 4 and 5. The latter are great for the do it yourselfers, the ones who like to make custom styles. JP version 5 is getting up to speed now, and you can introduce or play midi data in real time, and then insert it into a style part, and alter several note generating parameters to fit the style.

Other looping / step sequencing tools currently in the arsenal include Rythym and Chords pro, a midi rythym guitar emulator that adds nuances that are very difficult to play in real time, and slicy / fill in drummer, which allows for some very good and unique ( if one chooses ) drum parts. The AN150 software editor for my AN150 plug in board also includes a superb step sequencer in it.

I'd still like to see a OMB type program integrated with it's own soft sound
module(s). A program like that could offer a worthy alternative to a hardware arranger. I think it could very well happen. I'd also like to see Steven Kay release a karma emulation software that is compatible with synths other than the Triton and Karma.

With the right laptop and soundcard, I could use a lot of this stuff live. Changing softsynth patches is no harder than changing patches on my board. In fact, changing softsynths from one to another is pretty easy to do in realtime as well. I can't wait to "gig" ( sorry UD ) with a vitual Moog, CS80, and Novation K station. Awesome.... I don't know that I would use OMB as my primary arranger for live work ( the PA80 still wins for ease of use ), but I would use it if I had to as a backup and I think I could do pretty well with it.

AJ

AJ
A through look at your setup and sounds like you are transitioning. Their are a few (as I am sure you are aware)great composers at MoTown that use soft synths and giga and do outstanding work.

I certainly think it is the wav (pardon the pun) of the future.

You did not mention much in the way of the bread and butter sounds. What's you take on them and which programs are good for that?

Have you already or do you plan to perhaps put up a sample of what you are doing with all the toys that we could hear?
Terry

------------------
jam on,
Terry http://imjazzed.homestead.com/Index.html

[This message has been edited by trtjazz (edited 01-22-2004).]

Terry,

I haven't had a lot of time as I've been taking care of the kids and working, ( wife has had a lot of medical stuff going on but it looks like she is going to be ok ). With the amount of time left over that I have had, I've been busy basically stripping my computer down, removing everything that I won't use, and integrating all of this stuff and enjoying the heck out of just playing some of the new synths, ( Stuff I only dreamed about just a few years ago ) while working on the 'ol chops. . I have put together some pieces though, so a couple of new tunes are imminent.

Now that the computer is pretty much where I want it to be for now.. ( my next gear lust is for a good sampler / workstation module.. along the Giga sampler line, for those bread and butter sounds ) my next task is to work on mixing a song for a good net friend who is in a far away land. ( ok California ) I'm looking forward to that. I don't how I'll make his tune sound in the end, but the process will be enjoyable for me just the same.

AJ

[This message has been edited by Bluezplayer (edited 01-22-2004).]

Terry,
Does OMB work well(i.e., call up the correct
drumkits and sounds) when used with the Motif ES?

Bluezplayer, wow is all I can say. You are way ahead of most everybody including me!!!!

If you are going to use the heavy duty samplers for your high quality accoustic instruments, I would suggest also taking a look at Kontakt. GigaStudio 3.0 has just been shown at NAMM and will be out in late March or April 2004. It is suppose to be very good as well. Halion 2.0 is also supposed to be a good sampler. I believe it has the ability to load 128 instruments. So theoretically it should beable to do GM. I have not tested this. Halion is also supposed to be one of the better importers of the Giga Instruments.

You are going about designing your system the right way - an optimum mix of software and hardware. I took the route of software only as an objective/principle and to demonstrate the feasibility of such a system.

Vquestor, Bluezplayer will beable to provide the exact answer but you would think that the OMB will not necessarily select the correct drumkit given that the drumkits in the PSRs and Tyros will be different than those within the styles & Motif. However, once you have selected the appropriate drumkit (changing the drumkit within the styles using CasmEdit to the Motif drumkit of your choice) the various drum insturments within the drumkit will respond appropriately to your style, i.e., no misplaced dogs howling, handclaps, etc.

Bluezplayer, I am going to have to take a look at some of the Soundfont Samplers you have identified. Sounds interesting.

Bluezplayer, I am not certain how SBLive works but there were some very unusual problems installing the earlier versions of the Audigy 1 drivers. It could not properly be done with Windows XP with the SP1 installed. There was a unique procedure you had to use in the safe mode or install Windows XP then the SB Drivers and finally the SP1 Windows update. I phoned Creative and they said that is just the way it is - get used to it. The same applied to the early versions of drivers for Audigy 2. I am not certain what the new version of the SB drivers are like. They may have fixed this. Just thought I would point this out.

Bluezplayer, you would need the KX drivers if you are going to use GigaSampler or GigaStudio. It is the only way I know of getting the required GSIF drivers for this sampler and your soundcard. Midiman audiophile card has the appropriate dirvers.


[This message has been edited by Frank L. Rosenthal (edited 01-23-2004).]

All this softsynth stuff sounds very interesting, but I wouldn't have a clue where to start. Can you, Mr. Rosenthal or bluezplayer, give us a 101 on the subject in as simple terms as possible? Or perhaps point us to a website that lays out the basics on this subject?

Yeah,
Me too I could use a basic primer on it as well.
Terry



------------------
jam on,
Terry http://imjazzed.homestead.com/Index.html

I will let Bluezplayer do the explanation given he is further along this path than I am. In general, the considerations are similar to hardware modules, e.g., Sound Canvas, MU100, etc. You would need to consider your application and the amount of money you wish to spend. For example:

* Live performance vs Studio
Arranger Software vs Sequencers, etc.
* Soft Synths:
Do you require GM/GS/XG - Program changes?
e.g., LiveSynth Pro, Sample Tank, Sonic Reality, etc.
Do you require very high quality accoustic instruments?
e.g., GigaStudio, Kontakt, Halion
Very Expensive!!!
* VSTi/DXi Host:
Are you going to run more than one soft synth?
e.g., B4, LiveSynth Pro, Kontakt, effects, etc.
If you do you might need a host program like Brainspawn's forte Ensemble, Sonar, etc.

Once you have decided on your application and the overall quality of the sounds you wish to have that will determine your hardware requirements. If you are going to use your system for live performances then a midi controller keyboard and a Laptop may be the answer. Otherwise almost any computer will do. If you are going to use high quality accoustic instruments then you need to get a pro quality sound card and use 2 7200 rpm 8mb cache hard drives (applications & samples). The hard drives are important in that the sounds are streamed from the hard drive in real time with very low latency. This allows for very large sampled instruments, e.g., Bardstown Bosendrofer 290 Grand Piano at 2.5 GB, etc. In addition, if you are going to use very high quality software effects, particularly reverb (more than one instance of reverb, e.g., separate reverb for each loaded instrument) then you need to spend more money on the CPU, e.g., 3.2 GHz, etc.

Otherwise the actual use of soft synths is much like hardware modules - just send it program changes and control changes or alternatively change channels on your midi controller keyboard, etc. - and play!!!! Plus you can tweak the instruments to your hearts delight and then some. The trouble is you may not find time to make music!!!


[This message has been edited by Frank L. Rosenthal (edited 01-23-2004).]

Here is another person's take on a live rig to use:

'Very easy.

I suggest getting a 4-space rackmount case for your stage computer. There are system builders who supply them in those cases, and there are suppliers for them on the net--easy to find.

This gives you a more robust case. It will be a little long for most racks, SKB, etc., but the longer footprint Anvils will contain one very easily, along with your audio interface and a small line mixer.

I personally don't have mine racked in a case. I opted for an Anvil carrying case that it will fit into perfectly (rack handles down).

I have my other components in an SKB rack, including the audio interface (Layla), a small mixer (Alesis Studio 12R--nice for the purpose), a DigiTech Studio 400 (for mic FX), and a wireless receiver in that case--along with the standard Furman power-strip/light.

Everything is all pre-patched.

When I get to the gig, I unpack the rackmount computer and put it on the floor. Then I place the SKB on its front right on top of the computer and pop off the back panel. I pull out the power cord to the wall, the parallel cable to the Layla, and the power-cords to the monitor and CPU, plug it all in, and boot up.

I have found that it is actually faster to set up than my older multi-keyboard systems!! Once I'm booted up, I open Giga or Reaktor, whichever I am using, and open my performance-files, and let them load while I gets me-self a drinky-poo.

Once I'm back from the bar, I get my setup confirmed in headphones, get sound-checked into the PA, and I'm good to go. If it's a small room, and I'm responsible for my own amplification, I have a couple of Mackie powered monitors (the ones that look like EONs, except sound 1000% better). Sometimes I'll carry one for a monitor if I'm not sure how the PA situation will be.

Other than that, I have a Logitech Marble Mouse (trackball) velcroed to the right hand side of my SL-880 controller, a standard keyboard velcroed to the area right of the controller's editing buttons, and a Knobby Controller which sits on the other side of the SL-880. This gives me 16 preset CC combinations--great for controlling my various Reaktor setups.

If I am feeling REALLY adventurous, I take a MIDI-Merge box, and my WX-5 Wind Controller and PAD-5 lap-sized drum pad. Those can be really fun on more improvisational kinds of gigs.

I use a VERY el-cheapo grande Kogi 15-inch flat panel display, which is held perfectly by a guitar amp stand.

That's my live rig. I totally enjoy it, and despite the level of detail I went into here describing it, this thing sets up in a flash. It has never once given me a problem on stage. The only time it crashed was a case where I had damaged a disk-drive cable, and this was easily fixable. But I am totally rigorous about what goes on that machine--NOTHING except what is needed for its purpose.

The best advice I can give is the "second rack" situation, where everything lives pre-patched except the cables from the computer to the Layla and the power/keyboard/trackball cables. THAT is the key timesaver on stage. If you are in a situation where you play TV appearances, large festival shows, etc., you really do need this level of pre-hookup consolidation to get on and off the stage fast. If I am fully loaded into the venue, I can get my setup onstage and be ready to play in ten-fifteen minutes.

--------------------
Bruce Richardson
Bruce Richardson Music'

Me three. I would like to go this route as well, but I don't have a lot of money to spend. I find it a bit frustrating to find that I require a top of the line P4, when the keyboard mfg don't use powerfull chips. So how about a low cost system. (The web site for NI B4 says that their software requires a P266, that sounds reasonable). Any other less expensive, but still reasonable good quality softsynth pianos and some other acoustic instruments)?
Amplification: Yamaha YST MS50 80 Watt Speakers. That blows away the amplification on any arranger Even Technics)
Since I already have 2 arranger keyboards, it would be great if I could use them as controllers. I'm tired of the games msfgs play on musicians.
The PSR3000 will have mega voices, but not the PSR1500, on the next upgrade the PSR1600 will have the mega voices, but not the PSR600, etc.
Starkeeper


[This message has been edited by Starkeeper (edited 01-23-2004).]

[This message has been edited by Starkeeper (edited 01-23-2004).]

[This message has been edited by Starkeeper (edited 01-23-2004).]