Ok Ive had a Tyros 2 for 24 hours & believe me Ive been up 20 of them setting up this wonderful KB.....without a doubt it is one of the best sounding KB I have ever played & aside from that it is a "Players" navagtional dream machine too....alot of thought went into this T2 & Im glad I waited to this point to get one. I acually saved all my 3k informaton including Reg info/user styles,which really help speed the process of getting the t2 setup for gigging starting tommorow night & thruout the weekend with some big jobs coming up.
Yes I have also let go my Bose PAS, & I have no regrets eiher .....regardless of what people may think about the stereo issue I believe with the T2 it would be a big dis-service to not use two seperate powered speakers in stereo to really get the most of what the T2 can do, & to my ears there is a difference Ive been A/B'ing with two powered speakers all day...
in a week or so I'll go shoping for another PA of some sought we'll see when I play it in the stores......

Gettng in & out of the T2 is a breeze almost like a 3k on steroids feature wise, most things work the same.....BUT the sounds is lighyears above anythng Ive heard in a long time, drums have really inmproved....lets just say the Ketron Drums are like listening to a Great rock band LIVE....and the T2's drums are like hearing the SAME Rock band on a CD just a bit more fine tuned .....honestly this baby kicks big time!!!!....Ive have no problems with the Vocalizer either just set up the perimeters and its fine......having a seperate Mic Vol control is a pleasure.....the large display is great, its clear and Ive loaded many text files with no problem, they come up and look fine on screen, thats a real nice feature for sure....
The SA sounds are unbelievable when used properly they really show off the nuances of the sounds being used, strings are unreal & I got my Growl sax back!! ..... most factory OTS setups are really good too.... Ive noticed many styles have been reworked from the 3k and they have some how put it together better with flowing intros & variations that stay in the same family when progressing from 1-4 etc, etc ....styles cover almost any genre rit out of the box....great keyfeel its a bit more sturdier& firm too.
I know I'll have more to say down the road.....but I'm glad I got one it really makes you be a inspired player when you have a superb tool to work with.....

Whats a good place to get a HD I was thinking 80/100G?

- Scott

[This message has been edited by Scottyee (edited 05-03-2006).]

Donny, did you actually ever try it with the Bose?
DonM

Congratulations Donny.
Share a tune or two when you feel comfortable and have time. Please, please please make it a 44.1 KHz mp3.
Theodore

I have the T2 and the pleasure of being in a band that uses 4 double bass Bose PAS systems.
Yes using the T2 in stereo is where you can get the true sound but for a limited amount of people,.

I actually think the PAS system has a bigger sweet spot for stereo imaging than conventional stuff.

Also yes the drums are better but playing back a midi file, sometimes still doesn't cut it like a midjay does

Donny,

I had the same sentiments within the 1st 24 hours of owning the T2. I love it even more now after owning it for many months because I really appreciate the sounds, design, and ergonomics more intimately. I have been able to overcome almost every shortcoming on the keyboard. My only gripe is the linkage between the MusicFinder database and Registrations. Yamaha really failed in this area. I'm sure they could fix it with a new OS release if enough people complain.

I agree with you on the stereo issue. That's why I run a Stereo Powered Mixer with two Peavey PR10's and PR15's. I separate the two speakers and marvel at the stereo separation. My setup is light, cheap, and plenty powereful; Behreinger PMX2000, (2) PR10's for small venues, PR15's for large venues. Check it out. My whole setup with two keyboards (Korg Triton Ex 76), sound system, gig bag, stand, etc. fits on the Rock 'n Roller cart.

Al

Congrats on getting the T2, join the club.
I've just part exchanged my SD1 for a Motif MO (the 88 note one), only had to pay an extra £200 so a good deal. I can't wait for this to come with the weighted keys and the superb piano sounds. This should be ideal for use with the T2

Don.....Yes I did play it thru my Bose PAS and
yes it sounds very good loud & clear...BUT
there was just something missing in the OVERALL circumference of sound......the T2 is so fine tines in regards to efx & instrumentation being used at its highest level to enhance the overall sound structure that really should be used in stereo to appreciate.....I never thoiugh this way inthe past but now......I know I must play in stereo......because MY EARS TELL ME SO


PS BTW Don when are you getting yours ...? "Whoops ')"

As soon as I get the HD I will record into the T2 with vocals for all to hear ...no problem

Frank all my SMF's are recorded with the Midjay and saved as MP3 on my laptop for play back

The Devil's advocate again.

Please no hurt feelings and leaving SZ..

While I only had a short time listening and touching the Tyros2..it reminded me of a few things and the direction we are going..

First , it is easily understanding why Donny and all of us get excited about great new boards like the Tyros2..

I think the Tyros2 seems to be overdone[I think you guys use the word "polished"].

My feeling...if you are going to use these hard to believe it's being played styles/sounds..along with added "pads"....We are better off playing SMF's...at least we can sound like the record, and the public will be happier..

I am not only referring to the Tyros2..this is going to continue with the other manufacturers too..I just want my styles to accent, fill in the missing band members of a trio/quartet..even 5 pieces..allowing us to play meaningful parts along with the style[arranger]...If I want a blown out arrangement..I want to play over a Standard Midi File, that was done right..

Am I the only one here that feels this way?

As for the Tyros2...I think it is one of the best/ if not the best full sounding arranger that I have heard.....Is it for me..right now, I don't think so...

The piano[acoustic]...first impressions...still not there..I don't like the sound, dynamics with the key action...I still think the Tyros2 is the same physical key bed as the Tyros original..The keys are not the reinforced DX-7 type keys..and the action is not on par with Korg and Roland..

The construction of the Tyros2 is still too plastic, and does not appear to be built as well as the Gem Genesys, Korg Pro or the Roland boards I am familiar with..

The Tyros2 sure has a big screen...that goes with a big housing...I's hard to believe Yamaha couldn't make the package more compact...besides angling the corners..

I am sure the Tyros2 will have great success in the market, but I will be surprised if it brings in a lot of new "Pros" into the arranger ownership.

Most working pros..prefer the staples..a good rhythm, quick access to left hand bass, a good piano, and a group of accent sounds at our finger tips. Add the nice backing tracks[arranger or SMF]...and keep it realistic enough that we can really feel we are adding something ourselves to the performance..

Again I am not Knocking the Tyros2..it is the best at what it does...I am just concerned what it does is not the direction for me..

Fran....its a high tech world we are living in ....changing, improving every single day........either you play/sing just an Acoustic instrument so its just YOU & YOUR Instrument eg: Piano, Accord, Guitar etc....
otherwise you have passed the believing barier with the audience when they HEAR MORE THEN THEY SEE!!!!!
twisting, bending, tricking, yourself & the audience is not gonna work they arent stupid....IT IS WHAT IT IS!!!!!
Arranger KB playing.

And like I always say.......BOTTOM LINE.....
"What Does It Sound Like IN THe End Result" ?
Close your eyes, listen and enjoy.........how its obtained? not many know or care.......they know one thing IT SOUNDS GOOD to them


I got a T2, Im happy I made that choice & Im sticking to it!!

"Play Music Every Day"

No plans to change right now. The Midjay isn't perfect, but it sounds great, like a live combo, as Fran suggests.

We are just getting back into that old argument about who hears the stereo.
As you yourself so eloquently and often argued, only the person sitting directly between the two stereo speakers gets to hear it right. Those sitting where they hear the left or right speaker predominantly will NOT hear the entire sound. I agree that it's great hearing yourself in stereo, but I still truly believe that Bose PAS has the best solution.
I also truly believe you will soon get another Bose PAS system. Anybody wanta bet?
DonM

Like most of us, one thing Donny is, is FLEXIBLE ... and Donny, I don't mean this in a derogatory way, but did you not say just a short time ago that you were headed in the OTHER direction ... i.e., simple rhythm accomp, no vocal harmonies, etc. ??? ... but, as is your (and anyone's) perogative you have gone the way of the Ty2 ... and more power to you to be able to change the methods you use to satisfy yourself and your audiences ...

I am looking forward to your new recordings on the Ty2, and Donny, I hope you re-record some of the tunes you did on your latest CD ... and IF I MAY, I would like to give an "American Idol" - like review of that CD, which I have listened to on several sound systems .. ... I will say first that overall, it is an very good production, and my wife and I really enjoy listening to it ... ESPECIALLY the duet with his daughter ...
Now, in the style of "AI" -

Randy - "Hey dawg ... looka here ... I liked it man, ya know ... good song selection, excellent vocals, the drums kicked, but... some of the solo instruments on the midjay just didn't do it for me dawg, ya know ? ...

Paula - .... Donny, I LOVE you, America loves you, you stayed true to yourself, and we love your daughter even more !!! ...

Simon - Well, having heard SO much about the Midjay, I have to agree with Randy, that I found some of the solo instruments, like the sax, wanting in some ways ... Knowing your high standards, Donny, some of the sounds were not quite what I had expected ... but overall a good performance ... one of the best we've heard ... but I expect the solo sounds to be 'kicked up a bit' with the Ty2 ...


With ALL due respect to ALL ...
t.

"Any safe landing", I guess, when it comes to seletion of equipment and how you use it.

That said, my approach is more like Fran's.
I really like to go all acoustic; either as a single or with my new trio...me (piano-guitar), my son(Zeta upright) and my grandson (drums).

It works for me and that's what is important.

Russ

Tony.........does this mean Im in the Bottom Three

I did the best I could to showcase ONLY the MIDJAY on that project.....I probably wont rerecord the same thing on the T2...but I promise to record some demos with vocals all done live on the T2 & post them on my site for all to hear Mp3 pro or con in a few weeks I just ordered a HD for it too.....Thanx for listening Gumba.....

As for changing my thoughts? .....thats just "Donny being Donny".....Ive always had that finicky gene inside me .......

Another PAS? I wont rule it out......but I doubt it at this time.......I have a few more ideas in my musical bag of tricks


"Pesce Out"

So does anyone know when Yamaha is coming out with Tyros 3 (or whatever the replacement's name is)?

I have played the T2. I found the sounds, styles and multi pads to be the best i have ever heard in my life. It stirs my emotions. Its an inspiring keyboard that makes u want to play better and better. I said korg pa1x was on par with tyros1 but this tyros2 puts the korg aside. The new brass sounds are amazing. The oriental multi pads were stunning. If u can afford it get one. Thats my 2cents

That's a little premature, IMO. The PSR3100 will come out first.
Starkeeper

Donny,

congrats on your new T2. Glad you like it.
I certainly love mine.

Eric

Welcome to the T2 club.....!!

I hope Yamaha put the piano sounds from the MO8 into the next Tyros, I'm playing on it now and I'm in keyboard heaven It's lush
Also whilst they're at it, stick the MO8 weighted keys in as well and make it 76 notes hehe

Thanx Eric for all your T2 help its very much appriated as with all here on the SZ.

Given the 3 year cycle of the Tyros its reasonable to assume that Yamaha Tyros 3 would go on sale October 2008.

....but why stop there? Why not just a 29.95 portable CD player and a nice Radio Shack mic; heck, you could even afford to get a second CD player as a backup. Oh wait, isn't that a DJ? Seriously though, when used in a OMB situation, unless you have the skills of a Michael V???en (the T2 demonstrator, i forget his name), what is the difference between singing to (or playing over) a SMF and a DJ using two turntables for efx to enhance a tune. If you aren't trying to fool the public, how many of you are willing to get up from the keyboard during a tune, leaving the keyboard playing a SMF, and do your Frank Sinatra impersonation? How do you then go back to the keyboard after that, knowing that the audience knows that you are merely a prop imitating a musician playing live music. Of course you could ignore the SMF/CD/MP3 when performing live and just use the arranger function and not worry about sounding like the record (even if the SMF is pretty accurate and sounds like the record, YOU probably don't). I partially agree with Fran (will wonder's never cease) in the sense that if you can sell your audience on the total package, it matters little how you get there (except to other dumb-ass musicians ).

chas

Amen!!! If I stay in the music business, which I doubt, I will bill myself as a Live Player who also plays backgrounds to perform with, and also peforms as a DJ.

Aaaaah, now I can be honest with them and relax.

John C.

I usually buy my hard drives from a place in Floriday called www.driveguys.com
They are selling 80GB Western Digital 2.5" 90mm 5400RPM models for $79.00 on line right now.
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California

YOU, Donny? ... NO WAY!!! ...

In fact I LOVED the vocals ... clear, powerful when needed, soft when desirable ... in a word GREAT ... song selection - WONDERFUL ... the drums KICKED .... as I said, I guess my level of expectation of the Midjay solo sounds was higher than it should have been ... they were good, not great which I was expecting ......

Donny ... you are SAFE !!! ...
t.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again--anyone that believes their audiences are enjoying the stereo the performer hears on stage is only fooling themselves. In fact, if you look at the dynamics of a stereo sound system you'll quickly discover why movie theaters, and manufacturers of home theater systems went to 5.1 surround sound systems. When they were using stereo systems, only the audience members sitting dead center between the speakers heard stereo. All others heard a preponderance of either the right or left channel--but not stereo. Essentially, those sitting to once side of your venues are being cheated because they cannot enjoy what is coming out of the other speaker.

These problems can readily be solved by installing a 5.1 surround sound system with speakers stetegically positioned for overlapping coverage. OR, you can perform using a Bose PAS system. One individual put it best when he said "Mono--what a great concept--everyone in the room gets to hear the same thing."

When I was using the Barbetta Sona 32CS system, the smartest thing I did was position those speakers very close to me, one at each end of the keyboard and about 6 feet behind me. There was sufficient crossover so the audience essentially heard mono.

For those who think the Yamaha live grand piano sounds thin, I created a much fuller version that you can download from here

Fran,

Though we often agree on many aspects of the music biz, your statement about the audience not believing what they are hearing is no longer an issue. Most of our audiences think our keyboards are nothing more than Karaoke machines, and more often than not, they don't have a clue as to what the hell we are doing while onstage. They walk up to you while you are singing and playing and ask stupid questions. They'll say things such as "Do you have anything in there by Frank Sinatra?" almost as if you could answer them while in the middle of the song. The bottom line is they don't have a clue, and probably could care less--they just want to be entertained. They did the same stupid assed thing when I was playing a 12-string Yamaha guitar in a smoke-filled bar and using a Roland drum machine for rythm backing. Technology will not change this, and even if you were playing a grand piano and singing your heart out the idiots would still come up and ask stupid questions.

Cheers,

Gary

------------------
Travlin' Easy

Gary, I couldn't agree more with these words
today's audiance needs to be educated in the art of enjoying an entertainer perform without the audiance coming up to you in the middle of the stage with a microphone in your hand singing a ballad to request Delta Dawn or some other request...they seem
to be unaware of the people around them...
TR

Thanx George I will surly check this out asap...

That may be true, but as a performer, if I do not like what I sound like, I won't be inspired to play better. If the sounds coming to my ears are crappy, muddy, and don't give me pleasure, it will project to the audience. This will translate to a less than ideal performance.

Besides, I still say a Hammond B3/Leslie effect in mono will NOT sound as good to an audience as opposed to a STEREO effect. It's the difference between Vibrato/Tremolo, and Phase shifting. You cannot reproduce phase shifting without a STEREO Setup!

What inspires me to play better is the response of my audiences. They tend to be inspired by the crisp, clear sounds coming from the PAS. Why not give the Bose PAS a try with those Leslie sounds and then provide us with a report of your findings. For me, personally, I couldn't hear any difference with the vibrato, but the sounds coming from the Bose were much more distinct than those coming from the Barbetta and Peavey amps I used. I don't rely much on organ sounds, therefore, I would value your report after trying the same setup using the Bose PAS. It would also be a good idea to have someone who is not a musician to listen to the comparitive test and provide an unbiased report.

Cheers,

Gary

------------------
Travlin' Easy

When your speakers are 6-8 feet apart..The stereo image is fine in just about any room..Naturally there is a sweet spot, and when I set up ..the sweet spot is where I stand..

When speakers are this distance, the audience can still get the stereo image as with a real band..They will hear everything.

In certain situations , as when speakers are 20 plus feet apart, because of a wide room...mono may be the better choice..People far left and far right would definitely have an unbalanced hearing of the music..

Stereo vs. Mono is not only a personal preference, it is like the Chicken and Egg debate. Personally, I go with the Chicken.... or is it the Egg?
Eddie (luvin the Bose PAS)

What about a second PAS?
Can you use 2 of them to do stereo?

Yep, that's the ultimate SOLUTION in my opinion, but it'll break your piggy bank. - Scott

Actually Bose doesn't recommend using two systems for stereo. They warn that phase cancellation can be a problem doing that. The PAS was designed to disperse the sounds BETTER than stereo. You can visit their site and get a complete explanation about this unique system.
Conventional thinking does not apply.
Personally I don't care one way or another if anyone else uses the PAS. I just know how it sounds and the amazing response I've had since using it.
DonM

Ok, but as my memory recollects, I thought Uncle Dave was running two PAS systems together in stereo at one time. - Scott

Uncle Dave isn't necessarily the final answer to everything!
There is no way I would carry around two of the systems. Unnecessary and overkill. And very expensive.
The PAS stands for Personal Amplification System. It was designed for each member of a band to have his own system. There are many touring bands doing just that, with tremendous success. We one and two-man acts have adapted it to our own use, and as it happens, it works great for that also.
On the Bose PAS user forums, in addition to users of all types from all over the world, several of the Bose technicians actively participate. There is all the information and help a person could every want there.
I'm not trying to convince anyone to buy a PAS, just trying to contribute.
DonM

Just my two cents on the bose. I heard it in a small room when I went to see Don at Ernest club and did not hear the overall quality or power of this system, but at the Jam last Sunday I heard it put through it's paces and was highly impressed, not only the clarity of the Bose with 4 keyboards, fiddle, guitar, sax and numerous singers but what seemed to be inexhaustible power. This system carried it all with no problem and did not loose it’s high quality sound.

If I remember at the time, Uncle Dave sold his second system because he found it unneccessary. I remember emailing him about it. here is one thread discussing this topic
http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/Forum37/HTML/009273.html

I found it very interesting to go back and revisit this subject and quality of the samples

[This message has been edited by mikeathome1 (edited 05-05-2006).]

Ok Don, I'll be the first to echo that! , but the fact that he chose that setup had me wondering if this might be the PAS solution to the stereo phase cancellation problem I had experienced (and even utilizing the PASs latest EQ preset settings) when attempting to play my T2's 'stereo sampled' grand piano thru a single unit. - Scott

I had nothing but compliments from my audiences using one PAS with my T1. Some physical spaces seem to be more suited for the kind of sound the PAS provides. Wide open spaces and tiny rooms where you can not avoid to sit next to the public are great for using the Bose.

A couple of months ago there was a public offer from Bose in their forum. As you know the PAS had an exorbitant price, when it began to be sold in Europe. Bose is not refunding the money I payed in excess, but I'll get the chance of purchasing a second PAS for a very reduced price. I'm going for it.

-- José.