Is the WK8 a great keyboard to play live...

my opinion is no

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vic who wishes that korg TRITON would have more functions and the Roland E-500OR would be more improved!

Vic,

Could you please give specific reasons "why" you think that the GEM WK8 is not a great (arranger)keyboard to play "live"?

I have never played the WK8 but I do own the General Music (GEM) "RealPiano Expander" sound module and the acoustic piano sample is 'excellent'. I'm wondering if the acoustic piano sample used on the WK8 is the same? I've also checked out (auditioned) the GEM Pro2 keyboard and think it sounds awesome.

I don't believe that the Korg Triton has auto accompaniment features and the Roland E-5000R (is that a module version of the E-500?) is a Roland 'mid-line' arranger keyboard model, not the 'top of the line' arranger keyobard model that the GEM WK8 is marketed as.

I am interested in getting more feedback from Vic and others out there that either own or have played the WK8 to find out what the strengths and weakness'es of this arranger keyboard are. BTW (if you don't already know from reading my other postings on this board), I own the Technics KN5000 (and love it).

- Scott

Hi Scott

I think the E500OR is the "Oriental" version of the E500. While I am not sure that it is top of the line, Roland does use the terms "flagship" and "professional" to describe it, so it might be more than mid-line.

While the Triton does not have arranger functions, the new Korg "professional arranger" PA-80 will have a Triton sound engine. I think you will want to review this new contender for ScottYee compliance (rootless pianist chords).

It totally depends where you use it for, in other words what kind of music jobs are you taking!
A good friend of mine uses one.
He is mainly performing in Holliday envirements with tourists. (Hotels/Cruise ships etc...)

Overall the sounds are good.
It has an excellent midi file performance.
And for karaoke evenings it's the Top Keyboard!
Allthough other Keyboards have the video out as add on possibillity, they don't come even close to the WK 8 with this.

Fred

PSR9000 has built-in video outputs also. Just plug rca cables from keyboard to tv.
Don

Scottyee,
first of all I want you know that I hate my E-500OR but the only thing that would make me choose it on any other keyboard is the "OR" sounds and drums.they are totaly amazing and they are so real that no can even tell it's a keyboard and it's more than perfect on any other company tryed to make oriental sounds(GEM,KORG,...).if those sounds(38 new sounds and 3 arabic drums )were not in the E-500OR I wouldn't buy the keyboard!. I am talking about sounds in here...I tried the WK8 and was next to it a WK4 and a E-500 (not the oriental one).the WK8 has a great functions and it's really perfect keyboard but keyboard is a sound machean and you go to the sounds and all the sounds for me sound like the old "E" serios of Roland(like E-16..that's the first thing I rembered when I played it) and worse even.I can't tell you about the piano because I didn't try it on the WK8....and one more thing,how the keyboard is arranged is kinda hard to understand and the guy told me that they have to give me a lesson on that keybaord befor I use it(if I am buying it). because he told me that he him self took 7 or 8 monthes to understand it and be used on it and can be fast on using it for preformance .the only thing I liked is the battary thing which you charge it and if any thing happenes the keyboard saves every thing you do and even in preforming it would not close the keyboard and he said it's best for the keyboard to be opened 3 days more than to be closed(because it's charging)that's the only thing that I wish korg or Roland would really do.talking about styles..it have a great style converter but I only liked one style from ther 1xx styles.for drums they all sound the same except the techno or the dance one...it sounded not bad, other than that you have 64 drums and they sound the same for me (it reminded me with the psr240 drums).about effects..the keyboard have good effects on every thing.the guy told me that the keyboard is not working in here florida(no one buy it)and he is taking 40% of the price from it or something like that to make it work and he even called me to check befor I play it.and I asked him for the price and I was shoked and probably that's why it's not working even the amount he took wouldn't do any thing it's still can be higher and I asked for the VA-7 and it's higher than the VA-7 so I would prefair to go for a VA-7 which I will do after 17 days more than going to a keyboard that have only functions and no sounds!. about the KORG TRITON I only use it for midi songs and I some times use my E-500OR because it' s good too but when I tried a midi file on the wk8 it didn't sound good at all or even close to what i did to the song on a E-500OR.

that's all what I can say about this keyboard if any one have any comments I would be happy to read all what I said is only my opinion on this keyboard. and GEM manly.

Hello everybody,

Well, I have a different opinion concerning WK8:

1) sounds: very good (except the piano sound). But I have to be fair and say that all the piano sounds on ALL ARRANGER KEYBOARDS are lacking and maybe the WK8 piano sound in comparison to the rest is above average. The good news is that the realpiano expander is actually PRO1 sound. There is new WK8SE that incorporates that PRO1. so if you like the PRO1, you will definately like WK8SE and I would strongly recommend it above any other keyboard. (I wish I can pay GEM money to upgrade my keyboard to SE. I will however, never buy new keyboard for the sake of upgrade).

2) WK8 is hard to learn. This is a fact. However, the fact it is hard to learn or takes long time to learn, does not imply it is not easy to use in live performance. Once you learn it, it is the most logical, easy to operate, expandable, programmable keyboard you can ever buy. Furthermore, it is the most logical from live performance point of view. I know people who earn their living using this keyboard and they showed me why it is good for live performance. I am not talking from theoritical point of view, but from experience and from watching people performing on it and myself ofcourse.

3) the styles: well, this is a very opinionated subject. The styles on PSR series even if you got to PSR8000 or higher, I can easily say they come from a keyboard and not a live band. I am not putting down Yamaha, but because I used to be (and still am) yamaha keyboard fan and owner, I always can tell if that style is coming from a yamaha keyboard or not. The WK8 styles are different, they sound more realistic. The above post mentioned that the techno/dance styles are ok. I disagree. I believe that the other styles are better than the dance and techno. So it is matter of opinion. You need to listen to it yourself and determine if you like the styles and sounds.


So what I do think of WK8? I like it very much except the piano sound. But I guess no piano sound less than Yamaha P80 will make me happy. *smile*

Dou have any DEMO for WK8 to hear it? How much is the cost of the WK8 now days. It is a little bit expensive about &2700 with the Oriental Kit. Is it a good price? I am going to buy the w2khd Oriental any opinion.
thanks..

Hi,

SK88, Interesting to read your feedback regarding the GEM WK8. Yes, I am very impressed with the PRO1's piano sample (same sample as the RealPiano Expander), so I am particularly excited to checkout the new WK8SE. Is the WK8SE available yet?

It was also interesting to hear you say that the WK8 styles sound 'more realistic' but that the keyboard is 'hard to learn'. This sounds (interestingly enough) similar to the comments I've read from many Solton X1 owners regarding the X1. I'm wondering if GEM & Solton arranger keyboards share a similar design as they are both Italian made keyboards.

Finally, could someone possibly checkout the WK8's chord recognition abilities? As I have stated in other threads on this board (probably too many times by now), I am looking for an arranger keyboard which is able to recognize "rootless" chord voicings in "full keyboard" and "split keyboard" mode. Can the WK8 recognize the following chord voicings?

II - V - I Chord Progression in the key of C

Dm9 - G13 - C6/9

(F-C-E) - (F-B-E) - (E-A-D)

3 fingered rootless voicings (left to right)

Thanks,



- Scott

In his description Vic83 was mentioning the high price quoted on WK-8 "even after the 40% discount".

In my experience, the price quoted will vary widely, depending on where you get them. I know that here in Phoenix a local music store had quoted me a "list" price of $7000 for the VA-7, but they did offer a 25% discount ($5250). Of course, I could take this information and say that it is too expensive. However, some store salesmen do not always have your best interest in mind, especially if the amount of profit they make in different brands is not the same. It is a good idea to do your own research, especially if the store salesman does not tell you what you want to hear.

Even though the VA-7 is being sold elsewhere for several thousands less than the price I was quoted, I have seen the GEM WK-8 advertized on the net for a bit less than that. So, if you like the sounds and styles (and for that you have to use your own ears), this might be not only a good, but also a cost-effective alternative for you.

kelfar,

I strongly recommend that you listen to it yourself. A demo is not a good idea at all. Check out also WK8SE.


Scott,

you said the following:

"I am looking for an arranger keyboard which is able to recognize "rootless" chord
voicings in "full keyboard" and "split keyboard" mode. Can the WK8 recognize the
following chord voicings?

II - V - I Chord Progression in the key of C

Dm9 - G13 - C6/9

(F-C-E) - (F-B-E) - (E-A-D)

3 fingered rootless voicings (left to right)"

I will be checking this for you tommorrow. But before that I really need you to elaborate on the following:

1) what do you mean by "rootless chord voicings in "full keyboard" and "split keyboard" mode."? I can answer half of the question now, whatever chords recognised, they are recognised on both full keyboard and split keyboard. There is a quick option that lets you set whether you want your chords for the arranger be recongised on full and half keyboard. BUT what do you mean by the "rootless chord voicings"?

2)II - V - I Chord Progression in the key of C? What do you mean by that? If you take the scale of C major: "I" would be C major chord, "II" would be d minor chord, "V" would be the Gmajor chord. So would do you mean by the progression?

3) Dm9 - G13 - C6/9.... most likely yes. But today I will double check.

4) (F-C-E) - (F-B-E) - (E-A-D), I am going to play these chords and see what do I get from it.

5)3 fingered rootless voicings (left to right)? would you give me an example please?

sk880user,
did you have any Roland keyboard befor and if you did please tell me how was it to you and how do you compare it in sounds for the wk8 or gem manly.



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vic who wishes that korg TRITON would have more functions and the Roland E-500OR would be more improved!

Answers to SK880user's Above Questions:

1) what do you mean by "rootless chord voicings in "full keyboard" and "split keyboard" mode."? What do you mean by the "rootless chord voicings"?
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Rootless voicings are popular jazz style chord voicings (made famous by jazz piano
legend: Bill Evans)which leave out playing the root of the chord. This chord comping style is particularly popular when playing with a live jazz combo as the pianist leaves out playing the root of chord as to not get in the way of the bass player. The chords I outlined for you to test out are considered 'rootless' chord voicings because they do not include the root of the chord.

As you can see, the below chord voicings do not include playing the root of the chord.You do not play the note D in the Dm9 chord, the note G in the G13 chord or the note C in the C6/9 chord.

Dm9: (F-C-E) F=3rd, C=7th, E=9th
G13: (F-B-E) F=7th, B=3rd, E=13th
C6/9 (E-A-D) E=3rd, A-6th, D=9th

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2)II - V - I Chord Progression in the key of C? What do you mean by that? If you take the scale of C major: "I" would be C major chord, "II" would be d minor chord, "V" would be the Gmajor chord. So would do you mean by the progression?
--------------------------------------------
You are right SK880user, the "V" represents a major triad not a dominant chord. I meant to it to be a "V7" chord which includes the flatted 7th. I'm sorry to have mislead you into thinking the the "V" chord to be a major triad. Thus the chord progression should read:

II - V7 -I or even more precisesly for

Dm9 - G13 - C 6/9

II9 - V13 - 1 6/9

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3) Dm9 - G13 - C6/9.... most likely yes. But today I will double check.
--------------------------------------------
Great, I am anxious to hear your test results

*********************************************
4) (F-C-E) - (F-B-E) - (E-A-D), I am going to play these chords and see what do I get from it.
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Crossing my fingers that the WK8 will be able to recognize these chords as: DM9; G13; C69 (or at least close to these chord types).

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5)3 fingered rootless voicings (left to right)? would you give me an example please-----------------------------------------------

I am referring to the (F-C-E); (F-B-E); and (E-A-D) notes:

Left to right means playing:
(F-C-E)
F as the lowest note, C middle note, E highest note in the chord.

*********************************************

Regards,

- Scott


[This message has been edited by Scottyee (edited 10-05-2000).]

vic83,

I never owned any Roland Keyboard. But I had friends work with them all the time. I listened to JV series and XV series at music stores and I am very impressed with them. Especially the XV series. I wish they would lower the price though *smile*

sk880user,
I think that's why we have diffrent opinion on the GEM WK8.I also wanne say something that I liked, that GEM did it manly and I hope Roland would be reading it or I would have help from George kay or any one else to make sure the information goes to Roland.first of all to upgrade the GEM WK8 to oriental they use only disks and you will find every oriental sound in ther .I mean they made the oriental sounds and drums on disks so that the oriental custmer can choose any keyboard he likes(from gem only) and then he adds on them the oriental stuff,instead to be forced to buy only the oriental keyboard which is always weak and also we will be un able to buy any thing because we want the sounds but new keyboard and we every 5 years are forced to wait for a new oriental keyboard. I am not talking about expantion boards because I know Roland will not make an arranger keyboard with an expantion boards and if they did then I am asking them to upgrade your world expantion board and add the new things you did on the E-500OR and the EM-50OR.but if you are not planing to do an arranger keyboard with expantion boards forever then make the oriental sounds and drums on all of the arabic keyboards are on disk so that we can buy something big and can add those sounds just like GEM did to ther keybaords.

thanx for any help any one will do.

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vic who wishes that korg TRITON would have more functions and the Roland E-500OR would be more improved!

To Vic83 and Kelfar:

I needed a keyboard for oriental music as well. I have owned a Roland E40OR and I have had the pleasure to play the GEM WK2 Oriental for 2 weeks. It is really nice. But then I got the Roland E500 OR which sounded really good with the 3 Arabian Drum Kits. But then I bought myself a Korg i30 since in Yugoslavia and Turkey there were a lot of professionle musicians (taping CD's etc.) who plaid this i30. Well i can assure you that the i30 definitely is the best keyboard for Oriental music. It has some brilliant tapans (oriental drums) but you need to make them yourself. I have a tapan that is more beuatiful than a real one and also a Tarabuka that sounds extremely nice.

I would like to hear Vic's opinion about the Korg. I do realize that the Korg doesnt have enough oriental styles on board, BUT the i30 is the only keyboard that has 4 banks, A B C and D of which C and D can be used for OWN (so Oriental arrangements). Mine is completely filled and also a lot of MB on my Hard Disk. None of this comes close to the Roland or Gem. And one more thing: do you know what a ZURLA is? A sort of Oriental Flute. I have that sound ORIGINAL created for me and it sounds SUPERB !
For Oriental: sorry but the Korg is it. Just not for lazy people who need to take of the package and start immediately. I have a lot of Musician CD's of people who use the Korg i30 for it.

I would like your opinions on this.

Ilija

I just wanted to mention to all you readers out there, that here in the USA there is no more i30 korg keyboard. The Korg US company discontinued these several months ago. So here in the US we can only hope that some of the oriental capabilities will still remain in the PA80 which is due to be released late in October.
I would also like to remind everyone that roland does put all their oriental percussion sounds in almost every high end arranger keyboard. The G1000, EM2000, VA5 and VA7 all have the E500 oriental percussion sounds, and there are also over a dozen oriental instrument sounds in each of these keyboards. The styles are what are missing, and although the zip disk supplied with these keyboards have a few middle eastern styles, there are not enough. However, I have recieved styles on floppys, programmed by musicians around the world to offer really good arabic, armenian and other country's styles to play in these keyboards.
I would like to point out that even Generalmusic is starting to go away from using arabic kit floppy disks. In the WK2 products you either buy the oriental keyboard version or the non-oriental keyboard version. there is no oriental kit upgrade available to turn the wk2 into a wk2oriental. This was also true with the PK5 and the PK5Oriental. I think you might not see the disks being used to much longer.
The reason is clear to me. Many musicians share there software and the manufactures can't make any mony when customers let their friends make copies. I have been hearing this from Company's for a long time.Also, when buying dedicated middle eastern keyboards, you get extra features such as quartertone tuning buttons rather than having to use scale converters or deep editing situations.
i understand what you are saying about making things more consistant for the users, but there is another side for the makers of keyboards to. Keyboard manufactures will only keep making new and better keyboards as long as there are buyers, and so the market has to be driven by the need for new products all the time. If everything could be updated, we would see a freeze in quality new products. this is just my assessment of what I see in the industry. I could be completely wrong, but I've been in my store over 30 years now and I've seen alot and heard alot!
George Kaye

i couldn't agree more with you george however why should an oriental version be more expensive than the original version ,for instant in the X1 case i would have to buy the 6 disks oriental kit for $400 on top of the keyboard price and i think that's a total ripp off,same thing with the GEM WK series you have to buy an oriental kit,i personelly think it should be cheaper,why,because try to get any support for those oriental version from either roland or Generalmusic or in particular solton where no body knows jack sh...and they act like they know it all and they make you feel like WOOOO why are you calling us don't you know we're GOD ,FAX US WHAT YOU NEED AND WE'LL ANSWER YOU ,and they don't.
my 2 cents
eddy

I hear you Eddy but Company's do what they do and we can't change them only give them suggestions
George

goerge,
first of all I want to correct something you said about the E-500OR and the other big ones. the oriental sounds on the G-1000,EM-2000,VA-7/VA-5(I asked you about it when you got your VA-7 for the first time and was trying it).is the ones on the E-40OR "only".the E-500OR have completly diffrent sounds and drums too.I asked you on the VA-7 befor about the drums and you told me that ther is only the E-40 MODIFIED on the VA-7, which means ther is only the E-40's and not the E-500'S. that's why I am talking about it and asking roland to put those sounds in any thing taht can be carred and would allow us to use any keyboard they make(big ones).the sounds on the E-500OR only also found on the EM-50OR too if you heard about it.but no other keyboard that have those sounds.and those sounds are big improvment than on the E-40'S and they sound very perfect.for the styles they are not that problem for me because it will be solved after the loading the sounds in teh keyboard I am comfrtable with.it's all about sound.you say that the disk can not work .then I am suggesting of a small module that can be connected to any Roland's arranger keyboards and when I need to play sound or style I can control it from the keyboard and not from the module it self(except the scaling we can controle it from the module).


for Ilija Petkovski question, korg made the oriental or the arabian drums because of the E-40OR.when the E-40 came out it was sold very crazly and the guy who was local manger told me that they reached that they sell in one month about 1000 E-40'S (this is not in usa).
they also sold the mc-50mk2 as crazy as the E-40's because they were making midi files from it.then teh users of korg who had the E-40'S, complaned about why korg doesn't make arabic sounds.ther for korg made the arabian drums which is the same as the E-40(the same map too) so that any arabic midi that was played on the E-40 and have the E-40's drums can be also played on the korg.and I have seen the drums for the first time on the korg TRINITY and the IS-50 and the sounds too.I am not sure about the I30 if they changed it or not because I didn't try the I30 befor.ther for they are not that intersted as Roland is on the arabic stuff. I see you like the I30 ther for I guess that you are a turkish player because that's what they always do if they are planing to release something oriental ,it's always turkish.I own A korg TRITON and I was disapointed for not supporting the arabic scale as they did on ther last keyboard(even the trinity)and I hope on the nest update that they would put a butten on the catgory funcition that would scale the keyboard very fast because I find some trouble scaling it live if I wanted too and I hope they load arabic drums too on the keyboard.




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vic who wishes that korg TRITON would have more functions and the Roland E-500OR would be more improved!

Thanks for the answer Vic !

Well I can only say that you should here my styles then and with Arabica Scale you would very much like it!

I dont use Arabic Scale too often, 1 in 50 plays maybe, cause I am NOT Turkish but Dutch, but my parents are from Macedonia (former Yugoslavia).

Maybe you can send me some of your styles, I can easily convert them!

Ilija