In his description Vic83 was mentioning the high price quoted on WK-8 "even after the 40% discount".

In my experience, the price quoted will vary widely, depending on where you get them. I know that here in Phoenix a local music store had quoted me a "list" price of $7000 for the VA-7, but they did offer a 25% discount ($5250). Of course, I could take this information and say that it is too expensive. However, some store salesmen do not always have your best interest in mind, especially if the amount of profit they make in different brands is not the same. It is a good idea to do your own research, especially if the store salesman does not tell you what you want to hear.

Even though the VA-7 is being sold elsewhere for several thousands less than the price I was quoted, I have seen the GEM WK-8 advertized on the net for a bit less than that. So, if you like the sounds and styles (and for that you have to use your own ears), this might be not only a good, but also a cost-effective alternative for you.

kelfar,

I strongly recommend that you listen to it yourself. A demo is not a good idea at all. Check out also WK8SE.


Scott,

you said the following:

"I am looking for an arranger keyboard which is able to recognize "rootless" chord
voicings in "full keyboard" and "split keyboard" mode. Can the WK8 recognize the
following chord voicings?

II - V - I Chord Progression in the key of C

Dm9 - G13 - C6/9

(F-C-E) - (F-B-E) - (E-A-D)

3 fingered rootless voicings (left to right)"

I will be checking this for you tommorrow. But before that I really need you to elaborate on the following:

1) what do you mean by "rootless chord voicings in "full keyboard" and "split keyboard" mode."? I can answer half of the question now, whatever chords recognised, they are recognised on both full keyboard and split keyboard. There is a quick option that lets you set whether you want your chords for the arranger be recongised on full and half keyboard. BUT what do you mean by the "rootless chord voicings"?

2)II - V - I Chord Progression in the key of C? What do you mean by that? If you take the scale of C major: "I" would be C major chord, "II" would be d minor chord, "V" would be the Gmajor chord. So would do you mean by the progression?

3) Dm9 - G13 - C6/9.... most likely yes. But today I will double check.

4) (F-C-E) - (F-B-E) - (E-A-D), I am going to play these chords and see what do I get from it.

5)3 fingered rootless voicings (left to right)? would you give me an example please?

sk880user,
did you have any Roland keyboard befor and if you did please tell me how was it to you and how do you compare it in sounds for the wk8 or gem manly.



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vic who wishes that korg TRITON would have more functions and the Roland E-500OR would be more improved!

Answers to SK880user's Above Questions:

1) what do you mean by "rootless chord voicings in "full keyboard" and "split keyboard" mode."? What do you mean by the "rootless chord voicings"?
-----------------------------------------
Rootless voicings are popular jazz style chord voicings (made famous by jazz piano
legend: Bill Evans)which leave out playing the root of the chord. This chord comping style is particularly popular when playing with a live jazz combo as the pianist leaves out playing the root of chord as to not get in the way of the bass player. The chords I outlined for you to test out are considered 'rootless' chord voicings because they do not include the root of the chord.

As you can see, the below chord voicings do not include playing the root of the chord.You do not play the note D in the Dm9 chord, the note G in the G13 chord or the note C in the C6/9 chord.

Dm9: (F-C-E) F=3rd, C=7th, E=9th
G13: (F-B-E) F=7th, B=3rd, E=13th
C6/9 (E-A-D) E=3rd, A-6th, D=9th

********************************************
2)II - V - I Chord Progression in the key of C? What do you mean by that? If you take the scale of C major: "I" would be C major chord, "II" would be d minor chord, "V" would be the Gmajor chord. So would do you mean by the progression?
--------------------------------------------
You are right SK880user, the "V" represents a major triad not a dominant chord. I meant to it to be a "V7" chord which includes the flatted 7th. I'm sorry to have mislead you into thinking the the "V" chord to be a major triad. Thus the chord progression should read:

II - V7 -I or even more precisesly for

Dm9 - G13 - C 6/9

II9 - V13 - 1 6/9

*********************************************

3) Dm9 - G13 - C6/9.... most likely yes. But today I will double check.
--------------------------------------------
Great, I am anxious to hear your test results

*********************************************
4) (F-C-E) - (F-B-E) - (E-A-D), I am going to play these chords and see what do I get from it.
---------------------------------------------
Crossing my fingers that the WK8 will be able to recognize these chords as: DM9; G13; C69 (or at least close to these chord types).

*********************************************

5)3 fingered rootless voicings (left to right)? would you give me an example please-----------------------------------------------

I am referring to the (F-C-E); (F-B-E); and (E-A-D) notes:

Left to right means playing:
(F-C-E)
F as the lowest note, C middle note, E highest note in the chord.

*********************************************

Regards,

- Scott


[This message has been edited by Scottyee (edited 10-05-2000).]

vic83,

I never owned any Roland Keyboard. But I had friends work with them all the time. I listened to JV series and XV series at music stores and I am very impressed with them. Especially the XV series. I wish they would lower the price though *smile*

sk880user,
I think that's why we have diffrent opinion on the GEM WK8.I also wanne say something that I liked, that GEM did it manly and I hope Roland would be reading it or I would have help from George kay or any one else to make sure the information goes to Roland.first of all to upgrade the GEM WK8 to oriental they use only disks and you will find every oriental sound in ther .I mean they made the oriental sounds and drums on disks so that the oriental custmer can choose any keyboard he likes(from gem only) and then he adds on them the oriental stuff,instead to be forced to buy only the oriental keyboard which is always weak and also we will be un able to buy any thing because we want the sounds but new keyboard and we every 5 years are forced to wait for a new oriental keyboard. I am not talking about expantion boards because I know Roland will not make an arranger keyboard with an expantion boards and if they did then I am asking them to upgrade your world expantion board and add the new things you did on the E-500OR and the EM-50OR.but if you are not planing to do an arranger keyboard with expantion boards forever then make the oriental sounds and drums on all of the arabic keyboards are on disk so that we can buy something big and can add those sounds just like GEM did to ther keybaords.

thanx for any help any one will do.

------------------
vic who wishes that korg TRITON would have more functions and the Roland E-500OR would be more improved!

To Vic83 and Kelfar:

I needed a keyboard for oriental music as well. I have owned a Roland E40OR and I have had the pleasure to play the GEM WK2 Oriental for 2 weeks. It is really nice. But then I got the Roland E500 OR which sounded really good with the 3 Arabian Drum Kits. But then I bought myself a Korg i30 since in Yugoslavia and Turkey there were a lot of professionle musicians (taping CD's etc.) who plaid this i30. Well i can assure you that the i30 definitely is the best keyboard for Oriental music. It has some brilliant tapans (oriental drums) but you need to make them yourself. I have a tapan that is more beuatiful than a real one and also a Tarabuka that sounds extremely nice.

I would like to hear Vic's opinion about the Korg. I do realize that the Korg doesnt have enough oriental styles on board, BUT the i30 is the only keyboard that has 4 banks, A B C and D of which C and D can be used for OWN (so Oriental arrangements). Mine is completely filled and also a lot of MB on my Hard Disk. None of this comes close to the Roland or Gem. And one more thing: do you know what a ZURLA is? A sort of Oriental Flute. I have that sound ORIGINAL created for me and it sounds SUPERB !
For Oriental: sorry but the Korg is it. Just not for lazy people who need to take of the package and start immediately. I have a lot of Musician CD's of people who use the Korg i30 for it.

I would like your opinions on this.

Ilija

I just wanted to mention to all you readers out there, that here in the USA there is no more i30 korg keyboard. The Korg US company discontinued these several months ago. So here in the US we can only hope that some of the oriental capabilities will still remain in the PA80 which is due to be released late in October.
I would also like to remind everyone that roland does put all their oriental percussion sounds in almost every high end arranger keyboard. The G1000, EM2000, VA5 and VA7 all have the E500 oriental percussion sounds, and there are also over a dozen oriental instrument sounds in each of these keyboards. The styles are what are missing, and although the zip disk supplied with these keyboards have a few middle eastern styles, there are not enough. However, I have recieved styles on floppys, programmed by musicians around the world to offer really good arabic, armenian and other country's styles to play in these keyboards.
I would like to point out that even Generalmusic is starting to go away from using arabic kit floppy disks. In the WK2 products you either buy the oriental keyboard version or the non-oriental keyboard version. there is no oriental kit upgrade available to turn the wk2 into a wk2oriental. This was also true with the PK5 and the PK5Oriental. I think you might not see the disks being used to much longer.
The reason is clear to me. Many musicians share there software and the manufactures can't make any mony when customers let their friends make copies. I have been hearing this from Company's for a long time.Also, when buying dedicated middle eastern keyboards, you get extra features such as quartertone tuning buttons rather than having to use scale converters or deep editing situations.
i understand what you are saying about making things more consistant for the users, but there is another side for the makers of keyboards to. Keyboard manufactures will only keep making new and better keyboards as long as there are buyers, and so the market has to be driven by the need for new products all the time. If everything could be updated, we would see a freeze in quality new products. this is just my assessment of what I see in the industry. I could be completely wrong, but I've been in my store over 30 years now and I've seen alot and heard alot!
George Kaye

i couldn't agree more with you george however why should an oriental version be more expensive than the original version ,for instant in the X1 case i would have to buy the 6 disks oriental kit for $400 on top of the keyboard price and i think that's a total ripp off,same thing with the GEM WK series you have to buy an oriental kit,i personelly think it should be cheaper,why,because try to get any support for those oriental version from either roland or Generalmusic or in particular solton where no body knows jack sh...and they act like they know it all and they make you feel like WOOOO why are you calling us don't you know we're GOD ,FAX US WHAT YOU NEED AND WE'LL ANSWER YOU ,and they don't.
my 2 cents
eddy