I hope you are checking by here occasionally, George. I sure need help.

I record the K2600 digital output into a ProTools HD system.

I am working on a song in which the piano chords are hit with fairly good velocity and then held for several beats, then repeated. I am hearing something like a bee buzzing, or crickets humming, which kicks in maybe a second after the chord (or note) is hit. It is loudest when it first kicks in, and then it oscillates (like a decaying sine wave) in volume and dies out as the note dies out. It
seems to lay on top of the sustain of the note.

I am sequencing in ProTools, but I hear the same thing if I play the keyboard. I hear this not only with chords. I can hear it when I strike a single note and hold it. The intensity varies. It seems to be loudest when I hold a chord between C3 and C4, but it is there with any piano note or chord; just a matter of degree.

It is driving me crazy. At first I was looking around the studio trying to find the cricket!!

I thought maybe it would be lost in the mix, but it cuts through like a knife.

I usually use the K2600 for drum and bass tracks, then mic guitar and vocal tracks. So, this is my first time to pay much attention to the piano programs. I hear this on all the piano programs, to different
degrees. It is very evident to me on Programs 1 and 2. I have:

1. Pulled out the Sweetwater Grand Piano CD-ROM and tried some of these programs. I clearly hear it on these, also.

2. Switched off the reverb effects in KDFX on Program 1, for example, to see if this was the problem. No improvement.

2B. Gone into the MIDI track in ProTools and reduced the velocity of the notes, to see if the relatively high velocity was triggering this problem somehow. The problem remained, possibly at a somewhat diminished level...but clearly still there.

3. Tried a low pass filter in ProTools. It is not a high-frequency-only sound that can be filtered out this way....or at least I couldn't find the right filter.

4. Done a hard reset. No effect.

5. Called Kurzweil rep. He said no one had complained to him about this particular problem. He said I need to listen to another local K2600 to see if it is my K2600, or just something I have to live with when I use the piano programs. This wasn't much help.

Since I am only hearing this with piano programs, it is hard to believe that there is a problem with my K2600. On the other hand, if these are artifacts in the piano programs, I cannot believe there haven't been many complaints about this. I don't think I am that picky, and I hear this very clearly. And at 58 years of age, my ears
don't qualify as super sensitive!

I don't really have a good alternative to the K2600 for piano tracks. I don't use them a lot, but I certainly want to have this option available to me.

Are there particular problems with artifacts in the piano programs? Is there a solution? I CAN'T be the only one hearing this.

Thanks,
Mike

Maybe a distorted peak at the initial strike of the keys? Digital systems are 100% INtolerant to distortion. Older analog users know how to "warm up" a track by adding controlled distortion, but in the digital domain ..... there is NO SUCH THING. Distortion is always bad.

maybe the input signal is too strong, and you are compressing a spike? are you using the lite version of ProTools that comes bundled up for 6 or 7 hundred bucks? I have heard nothing but horror stories about those systems. A full blown, high end ProTools system is a joy to work with, but the baby version has too much fat trimmed off. Maybe the system is to blame.

John,
I can hear it when I play the K2600 using the analog outs. They go direct to a Studio Technologies surround controller, which controls the surround speakers. The controller is 100% analog, so there is no conversion in the controller. Thus, it is not a digital issue.
Sorry I wasn't clear on this in the first post.
Mike

Uncle Dave,
Sorry, I meant to say Dave, not John. It is 1 AM and I'm a little tired.
Mike

Mike,
Could it be built into the sample itself? Or a noisy effect maybe? Overcompressed? Puzzling, huh?

Dave,
Have you listened for it on Program 1?

I took the effects out of service, so it is not KDFX.

Mike

Is this sound happening on any sound, or just with the piano? If it is every sound, I might suspect that a SIMMS may have gone bad.

The buzzing is clearly in the piano programs themselves. There is a good thread at the Yahoo K2600 User Group in which Stoph describes how he modified Piano Program 1 to eliminate most of the problem. Specifically, see post 1751 (and the rest of the thread): http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Kurzweil-K2600/message/1751

Subsequently he was also able to greatly reduce the problem in a Sweetwater Grand Piano program.

I am absolutely amazed that this hasn't been a big issue with users of the piano programs. The buzzing is very evident if you listen for it. Several K2600 User Group members agreed they had noticed it, but they have simply lived with it. Kurzweil and Sweetwater need to modify their programs to reduce the problem, using Stoph's approach. Stoph did it relatively quickly (though he is experienced at modifying the programs). However, I have had no luck getting their attention.

Mike

Hello Mike,

I don't have this at all.
I tried to emulate this bee buzzing even by hitting continously full chords and exessive sustain , there's no way I can emulate this.
So it must be your K2600.

Maybe?
There could be some dust on the contacts of your keyboard as the first sounds where you will notice this are the piano sounds.

If you send me a test midi with the bee buzz in it, I could test it and record it for you on my K2600 and send you an mp3 to compare the difference.

Fred

Fred,
If you go to the referenced thread, you'll see that a number of people have heard this. Strike a note solidly in Program 1 in the C3-C4 range and hold it. Because of the looping, it kicks in strongly in 1+ seconds and then very slowly decays.

I don't know what to say if you can't hear it. Maybe you are just not sensitive to these particular frequencies.

If you are interested, I suggest you go to the K2600 User Group (link above) and go through Stoph's step-by-step changes. Stoph was the only person who really put in some effort to solve the problem, and he did a terrific job. Then, compare this to the original Program 1. There is a very clear difference.

Thanks,
Mike

I did! and I absolutely can't hear it!

I was very recently tested on my hearing and there's nothing wrong with my hearing, in fact my hearing seems to be superb for my age. (I'm almost 52)

So it might be that more K2600 have this, but mine does not have this problem!
Thats'why I am curious to listen to a small sample which has this bee buzz!
If you don't mind just send me a few notes, sampled in mp3 format.

I recently removed my mail adress from profile to avoid and reduce spam, but if you are willing to send it, will send you my mail adress or a private place where you can upload.

Fred

Mike,

Sorry to be so long in replying. There is something WRONG with your K2600. You state that you hear this both with digital out and analog ..

I suspect you have a hardware problem.
I can't tell you what (not a tech)

do any other sounds "buzz" .. check carefully..
(I suspect they do if you really listen.

A repair is definately in order. before taking it in...

Download the latest OS and Objects and reinstall it and then do a hard reset.. If the sound still "buzzes"

take it in for repair or make sure your House "Sync" is working properly..

BTW..

Here are the names of the new voices for the K2600 family. the sounds for GM 400-500 are for the K2661

http://www.geosyncmusic.com/K2661Pgm/K2661Lst.htm

George,
I honestly don't think the problem is with my K2600. If you go to the thread mentioned above, you'll see that a number of other (knowledgeable) people have heard the same thing. That fact that I do not hear it with any other programs except some piano programs also supports the notion that it is in the programs, not the gear. One of the guys there who is very knowledgeable at programming the K2600 made a modification (which he describes in detail in that thread) to Program 1 which reduces most of the buzz problem.

He also helped me off-line repair a Sweetwater Grand Piano program which had the same problem.

So, I think it is something that most people apparently don't find objectionable enough to do anything about. But, I think it is there. Since you have worked so much with the K2600, I am surprised that you haven't at least noticed it sometimes. "Buzz" may be a bad description. It is a harmonic that is almost a high frequency hum, that has you opening you mouth to clear your ears.

Anyway, thanks for the reply. After you look through that thread, if you still think I am screwed up, please let me know!!
Thanks,
Mike

I had a simular problem with my 2600 except it was much more pronounced and did effect other voices. The ROM daughter board had come a little loose and after re-seating it all was well. The foam strip that holds the daughterboard in was missing.
Not sure if this helped but may be worth taking a shot at. If you have ROM modlules installed just reseat the daughter board.

Jerry

Mike,

I understand the work around to fix a problem that should not normally exist.

If you hear buzzing in your headphones, you got a hardware problem .. Could be as Jerry suggests.

If you do not hear buzzing, check all cables, Preamps, Possible blown tweeters, digital clock source..... (make sure you have good headphones ..)

Believe me.. Those work arounds are just "Polishing a T---" Fix the problem and enjoy how great the piano should sound.

I speak from playing and adjusting "Hundreds" of K's.
I know what they are supposed to sound like and the problems you and others have described are the exception, not the rule.

OK guys, I hear you. And I 'm sure few people have heard more K2600s than you, George. But with all due respect, I have to say that my engineering background is making it very difficult for me to understand how this is a hardware problem when I only hear this on SOME of the piano programs, and NO other programs. And it is not a screaming buzz; it is relatively subtle.......but clearly there if you listen carefully for it: cyclical, slowly decaying out over several seconds. It is just hard for me to see how a hardware problem would be triggered by only these specific programs.

So, I hesitate to open up the K2600, or to ship it off for repairs. My guess is if I ship it off, it will get a clean bill of health.....and I'll be out the risk of shipping and the wear and tear that goes with these wonderful conveyor belts.

So, I am hanging here in limbo. Slowly going nuts!!

OK, George, I can open it up, but I don't really know what to look for. You would ship it off and ask for a complete checkout by an authorized repair service?

Thanks,
Mike

Mike,

Please send me an email with your phone number and I will call you. We'll get you going as easily as possible.

My email geosync@pacbell.net

Mike,

Any progress?

George,
Thanks so much for the phone call and the many helpful suggestions.

I am going to be buried for the next couple of weeks trying to finish up the remaining couple of tracks for a song. As soon as I get that done, I will turn my attention to the K2600.

Have a great vacation. It is overdue and well deserved. No cell phone!!

Talk to you later.
Mike