Oh, I agree that it doesn't matter... You can get by without it.

Just as well as you can get by without a modern arranger, and a modern PA, and a decent voice. Plenty of players managing to do that. But would you WANT to?

Let's face it, few of us are really doing all we do because the audience hears it, or recognizes it's worth. We do it for the few that DO recognize it. And we do it for ourselves, because if WE are not happy, how can we make our audience believe we are?

Having grown up playing live music all my life, I find mono to be the most unnatural sound ever. You NEVER hear mono in the real world, there is always SOME kind of spacial cue and spread to the sound. Listening to mono while I play only accentuates for me the realization that I AM playing with a machine, and anything I can do to help dispel that impression makes me a happier player...

But I HAVE played through many mono PA's, and know perfectly well that you CAN do it, and even that few of your audience cares. But I try to play for the few that DO, and for myself. And other than carrying around two speakers (and even most of us that perform in mono do that), it involves no more equipment than being in mono. So.... why not?

ok already, i'm gonna try it!!

The rock band I play with uses 2 L1 systems. You all do know that Bose doesn't actually market the L1 as a PA system even though it works fine in that role? We are running the L1s out in front of the band with a 15" JBL sub woofer because we are running an electronic drum kit through the system at a volume level you'd expect from a rock band. We are running the drum kit in stereo into the 2 L1s.

Nigel those Tom Toms must sound awesome In Stereo I would assume they are panned hard L/R.

Yes I am sure they are but I never get to hear them myself cos I'm always behind the towers when the drums are playing. The drummer has a powered JBL cabinet on stage for our drum monitor.

Once we tried putting the towers behind us on stage. While it worked fine, having the vocals that loud on the stage messed with our instrumental stage balance so we went back to putting them out front and using conventional monitors.

But it still goes to show that the L1 system is awesome even with higher volume musical acts. They are capable of handling AC/DC covers as well as lower level dinner music. They fill the room so much better than the conventional PA we used to use. And apart from the vocals and drums we also sometimes mix in a little of the 2 electric guitars and keyboard just to reinforce the instrument balance through the room.


[This message has been edited by Nigel (edited 10-26-2007).]

Thanx Nigel.....
I agree the Bose PAS in the right application is definitly a very efficient sound system reinforcement for sure....
I'm glad its working out for you & your band. I also understand the behind you placement vs front of the house as getting a bit musically confusing with multiple players....anyway enjoy!!

I had the rare opportunity to meet with the leader of an 18-piece band today, a person that I would think would be an expert on this subject. He is highly trained, as are all of his musicians. They perform throughout the southeast, primarily in North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, parts of Virginia and northern Florida. They primarily perform Glenn Miller type music, and all of their bend members are seated in rows similar to the Glenn Miller Orchestra.

Each musician has his and her own mic, the vocalist has her own mic, and even the drums and piano are fed through mics. Now, we're talking 18 pieces, plus a female vocalist, saxes, trombones, trumpets, an accoustic piano and an upright bass. Everything is fired through a monster mixing board, then into a 4,500-watt PA system that's MONO! We talked about stereo and his first statement was "Who in the hell would hear it? If we fired all those instruments through a stereo system it would not only be a nightmare for the guy running the mixing board, but additionally, can you imagine what we would sound like if only have the instruments came out of half the speakers on one side of a 200-foot stage, and the other half came out of the speakers on the other side?"

He checked out my L1 and asked the price. When I told him he said that was fairly inexpensive, especially considering how crisp and clear everything sounded. Then when I told him it was never turned up more than 25 percent of max volume, he said "I'm calling Bose first thing Monday morning."

BTW: He had an arranger keyboard player for a couple years, but the keyboard guy quit because he was only using the keyboard as a piano and vibes most of the time. He said he was really impressed with the technical strides that keyboards have made in the past few years, and that he envisioned they would play a larger role in big band music in the ensuing years.

Cheers,

Gary

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Travlin' Easy

[This message has been edited by travlin'easy (edited 10-26-2007).]

Gary,

Why would the mixing board have to be panned in extremes as you seem to imply?

A great stereo image could be easily produced by judicious panning and therefore give the audience a much more substantial and authentic sound.

Ian

I don't recall Glenn Miller even NEEDING a PA other than to reinforce the singers and the bass and piano a bit... Why do we all of a sudden need thousands of watts for music that never needed it in it's heyday? Are we all so much deafer now?! Are the dancehalls THAT much bigger? Glenn Miller probably played Carnegie Hall (if not, many others like Paul Whitehead DID). How many watts do you think HE used?

Please also don't forget that, even if the PA is in mono, the audience WILL hear positional cues from the spread of the musicians themselves. I am pretty sure that, no matter HOW many watts their PA is, for a big band gig it won't be turned up to the point where you CAN'T hear the musicians themselves..!

This is where large ensembles, and arrangers that try to SOUND like large ensembles differ. Subtle positioning cues help reinforce the illusion that there IS an ensemble up there, when in reality, it is just us, and our arrangers. A real ensemble even with a mono PA will still sound stereo, but a mono arranger will sound COMPLETELY mono, something that NO live band ever will.

Once again, JMO, yada yada yada.

Diki,

I attend concerts by the Glenn Miller Orchestra, Dorsy Brothers Orchestra and other big bands every year. I pay top dollars for the best seats in the house, and they DO NOT use a stereo sound system. They performed at the Wiliam Amoss Theater, which seats approximately 1,000 people, and there were several hundred standing in the rear of the theater. It's an incredible performance, one that is almost beyond description.

If you have the opportunity, and I believe they do come to your part of the world, make a concerted effort to attend one or more of the concerts. Not only will you learn a lot, but you'll get to hear some of the best performers in the world. Keep in mind that only the band leader of the Glenn Miller Orchestra is the only living orriginal member of the band, but he can play a trumpet better than anyone I've ever heard. There are just a couple of the Dorsey Brothers orriginal members still alive, but they still have more talent than anyone can imagine. Most of the other performers are relatively young, highly trained, and extremely talented.

Ian,

When you have the opportunity, create a good midi file using your PSR-S900, one that has lots of stereo components. Then fire the keyboard through a stereo mixer with speakers spaced about 10 feet on either side of the keyboard in a large room. Pan the parts the way you described, walk throughout the room while the midi file is playing, then post the midi file and post a report of your findings. I know you are a very talented musician, and your technical knowledge is excellent. I would be very interested in hearing both the midi file, plus reading your report about the stereo separation.

Gary

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Travlin' Easy