I've said it before and I'll say it again. For some reason, this forum tends to be too much like a pool hall. There are the regular sharks who hang out and anyone else showing up is challenged and put down. Lots of people have left or frequent other places becuase of the friction on here.

What's saddest is that all any of us really SHOULD strive to get out of this board is the key to being better at what we do with our keyboards, whether they are Rolands, Yammaha's, or Casio's.

I'll agree technology has done a lot of things to improve music production. In contrast, we need to celebrate the technology and share ideas on how to use it creatively to keep "live" music alive for another 10 years.

But when it comes to becoming argumentative, we should just calm down and remember that we each choose the roads we go down and (if we focus on the road we're on) any one of them can lead us to success (as opposed to failure).

R/I

I love that when the drums roll across the stage between the speakers. Or when the EFX like on Billy Idol's "Mony Mony" when the jet airplane effect cruises back & forth awesome stereo FX!

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Stereo or mono? Who would benefit from the stereo in this setup?

[This message has been edited by mikeathome1 (edited 10-28-2007).]

The poor suckers that pay the highest prices for the center seats get ripped off big time. They have a concentration of guitar amps in their faces. Bose on stage would be perfect...then use side fills for the house if needed. No place is too big to benifit from the new approach to better coverage.

Then why aren't Bose used more often? It's not like they're that new.

Most of these groups rent all their systems, so why aren't they renting Bose?

Must be a reason.




[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 10-25-2007).]

I think this is the principal upon which the Bose was created just much larger.


[This message has been edited by mikeathome1 (edited 10-25-2007).]

It's quite possible that most outfits that rent systems also sell systems. GC sells Bose, but to my knowledge they do not rent anything. Bose, obviously, does not rent their equipment out as well. Most of the equipment that I've seen that was rented was really beat up badly. That also may have some bearing on this.

Many years ago, when I was working for a local company and installing sound systems in large halls, churches, factories, hospitals, etc.., the top of the line was Executone. To my knowledge they were among the first to use vertical arrays of speakers. They were called "Sound Columns" and usually measured 6 to 12 feet in length and housed relatively small, tightly-packed, speakers spaced about 2 inches apart throughout the entire colum. The colums were about six inches wide and six inches deep. All were constructed of wood and heavy as hell.

Some of the colums were arched and placed in the corners of ceilings in large cathedrials and churches. Essentially, the speakers were all facing downward and the coverage was pretty much equal throughout the venue. In some of the extremely large cathedrials up to 10 sound colums were used. And, because I was the skinny kid on the installation crew I was sent into the ceilings to drag the wires through to the main amp, which usually ranged from 500 to 1,500 watts.

A few months ago, at my grandson's christening, I noticed there were Bose colums mounted on the church walls. This is a huge church, one that could easily seat 600 people. If I recall correctly, there were two colums on each side of the pulpit, spaced about 40 feet apart. The sound coverage was incredible, very clear, distinct and no matter where you were in the room the volume was the same.

I sincerely believe that you will be seeing more Bose L1 type systems used in the not too distant future, especially for larger house systems. Time will tell.

Gary

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Travlin' Easy

To be fair, Bose does make pro audio systems that many pro touring acts use for mid size venues. http://tiny.pl/1zqx
Not to mention permanent installs.
I saw Disney on Ice a few years ago at good size auditorium that is also used for pro hockey, and Disney was using Bose speakers hanging from the ceiling.
The L1 personal amplification system, I believe is a way to take that technology and make it portable.

For a start off, let us not pretend that we play venues as large as that picture on any regular basis. Let us also not pretend that in small and even some medium sized rooms, the musician's own rigs (bass, guitar and drums, at least) contribute a large proportion of the sound that you hear, and the PA is used primarily for vocal reinforcement, and fill-in jobs. As such, it doesn't need to be in stereo for the audience to already hear stereo. After all, the musicians are spread quite widely.

And, what is the purpose of stereo? Let's think about that for a second...

Stereo was invented to allow those that were playing back music (initially, tape, then records, then radio) to hear the same effect as if they were in the hall, listening to the music. the sense that different players were in different physical locations, the ability to close your eyes and imagine that you were in the hall, listening to the performance.

Now step forward 50 years or more. We now have keyboards that essentially ARE playback devices for music (no matter whether our input is to a greater or lesser degree). And our audiences, although they THINK they are present at a 'live' performance, are almost in the same situation of listening to a recording. We play what we play on TOP of that recording.

Now, to increase the realism of the 'liveness' of that performance, using a stereo PA to add back those spacial cues that they would normally hear with a live band is quite effective. The real trick is not to exaggerate it... I rarely ever pan past ten to two o'clock, so those close to the left or right speakers don't miss an entire part, but the effects are ALWAYS wide. This can add a sense of spaciousness to the music in a small venue.

Another thing to take into account is NOT to space your speakers too widely. Most arranger default drumkits are panned fairly widely in the first place, and it is quite a job to go into every style you have and pan them back closer to the center, so placing the speakers no wider than they HAVE to be helps a lot, there.

I think the real trick is to not try and create a huge wide wall of sound, with you lost in the middle of it, but to keep them close, and just provide a virtual soundstage that recreates the stereo cues your audience would hear if you HAD a real band with you. You wouldn't want your bass player 30 feet away, or your drummer's kit to be 20 feet wide... Keep them in close, and keep things real.

I simply feel that mono, except for those few that ARE at the back of a big room or the extreme sides, is LESS realistic than well placed stereo.

JMO, yada yada yada....

I agree to a certain extent. If it was a concert and people were sitting listening attentively. Stereo.
In my living room, car, mp3 player, stereo.
For a party, bar or restaurant where people are moving about, eating, talking, dancing socializing, being entertained I'll never be convinced that it matters.
I've never heard of anyone complain about the lack of stereo at their event.
So my conclusion, is stereo sweet? Sure is!
When someone calls to book an event do they ask is it stereo?