Alrighty I've gotten quite a few emails recently from people here on the forum regarding new keyboards for a beginner who have very little to no experience on them... I've had a few people finish with some not so nice things to say about synth's they've already bought (and are upset with them), and so forth...

Here it is guys: If you are a newbie to keyboards whether it be a full blown synth or an arranger keep this in mind... If you are buying your first synth and have absolutely no idea how to operate them do not buy:

Yamaha Motif
Korg Triton Studio
Kurzweil K series
Roland Fantom
and any other top line arranger... If you hvae no experience with a synth or how they operate these models will most likely get you frustrated ... It's not to say they're bad, but generally to use one of these keyboards you should at least have an understanding as to how they operate.. I've gotten several emails from people who bought Tritons, and Motifs complaing that this is their first synth and that it's crap because they can't figure it out.. Not to be mean, but it's not the synth it's the user... If you have never laid hands on a synth in your life and know absolutely nothing about them you will most likely be confused with the terminology within the manual and the synth itself. My suggestion is to get your hands on something basic.. If you want a Triton, get the Triton LE.. It doesn't carry the huge price tag of the big one, but it's a good starter synth (even for pros on a budget). You can even get decent used Korgs like the N364 or N264... These two models are excellent first time synths, and they still sound pretty good too..... Just like arrangers these top line synths are pricey.. A Yamaha Motif will set you back upwards of $1700, and a Triton Studio will run you over $2,000... This is huge investment to make, so if you're going to make it be sure to have the patience to learn how to use them... Arrangers are the same way.. If you don't know much about keyboards and want an arranger, I suggest not buying something top line like a PSR-9000, 9000 Pro, Roland VA-7, Technics KN-7000, Korg PA-80 or any other top of the notch arranger.. If you want to make a good investment into a really good and powerful arranger keyboard that will work for both beginners and pros then I's suggest the PSR-2000.... The PSR-2000 is along the same price line of the Korg Triton LE too.. The PSR-2000 is a great keyboard, and would work quite well for a beginner.. There are a lot of really good pros here on the forum who own PSR-2000's and some beginners as well... Don't just go out and buy the biggest and baddest keyboard in the store... Don't let the sales person make you think you need something like a Triton Studio to sound good... There are a lot of crummy sales reps out there who will talk beginners into buying something like that.... We're not all blessed enough to have people like George Kaye, and Dan O'Neil in our areas who know what they're doing and will give you a fair deal.. You need to research what you're looking for.. Use the web and do a search for keyboards.. Many makers have the manual posted on the Web... Take a look at them and see if the terminology confuses you... When you shop be sure to shop smart..

Squeak

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 05-04-2003).]

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 05-04-2003).]

Hear ! Hear !!


DITTO to that !! Squeak !!

Regards,
Steve

Ditto. I've been advocating this SAME thing for a LONG time here as well.



RIGHT again. No expensive 'top of the line' keyboard with every bell and whistle can ever replace what can ONLY result from the years of hard work (dues we gotta pay) to develop the keyboard chops and the creative music vision required of a truly competent musician, don't EVER get fooled into thinking that. Don't lose sight of the fact that even though lot's of short cuts abound, that the heart and soul of our music has got to come from us, not the arranger.

I believe as performing arranger keyboardists, that we should never rest on our laurels and just expect the arranger's features to fill in for our weakness, but instead, work to further our musicianship skills (continued ear training, music theory, polishing our keyboard chops, vocal exercises, expanding our repetoire, & also playing & learning from preferably BETTER accomplished musicians than ourselves). In addition to rasing the level of professionalism of our arranger keyboard performance, we might finally gain the respect of our non-arranger keyboard musician peers out there as well, and on a $1,200 PSR2000 keyboard to boot.

- Scott

Also keep in mind that it's not really the keyboard that makes the person sound good.. It's the person sitting behind the keys that makes it sound good.. The keyboard is just a tool for you.... It doesn't take a Yamaha Motif or Triton Studio to sound like a pro.. I've seen people play Casio's and make them sound great.. You have to take the experience you have and put that into the keys... Don't fall into all the hype with this newer equipment out there that claims you need no musical talent to be a musician... This not true at all..


Squeak

Triton Studio? Why am I feeling convicted about this?

Just a little addition- EVEN when you think you're familiar with synth and music in general, especially those "old school" people (like me)..you still need to watch out....these keyboards can be tricky...I grew up with Roland D50/D70/MC500, Technics, Yamahas...so I thought I was "OK"...its already a few months into my new Triton Studio, and I'm just beginning to somewhat effectively using it.

You still have that background on them KN_Fan.. How does that Studio sound compared to the Classic.. I don't hate the sounds of the Triton Classic, it's just I felt the Yamaha's acoustic sounds were considerably better.. It's a toss up really with the synth sounds.. The Classic did have some good synth leads and pads. It's old competor the EX-5 had some killer, and I mean down right killer synth sounds. Some of them were just scarey..

Squeak

"Also keep in mind that it's not really the keyboard that makes the person sound good.. It's the person sitting behind the keys that makes it sound good.. The keyboard is just a tool for you...."

I've always looked at keyboards and cameras in the same light. The keyboard is only as good as the person standing behind it--just like a camera. You can own the best Nikon and take lousy photos, and a good entertainer can make an elcheapo keyboard sound pretty darn good.

Cheers,

Gary

Hi Squeak,

Thanks for the kind words

I've never heard Classics before- I know that at least with my Studio, it came complete with Expansion Board for Piano (which was optional for classic). I agree with you on Acoustic sounds. I will have to say that some of Yamaha's sound has the 'thickness' and sounds fuller than Korgs. Just my opinion. But, no doubt that if you're into Techno/synth kinda music, the Triton would be a godsend to you.

Posted by Scott Yee
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"I believe as performing arranger keyboardists, that we should never rest on our laurels and just expect the arranger's features to fill in for our weakness, but instead, work to further our musicianship skills (continued ear training, music theory, polishing our keyboard chops, vocal exercises, expanding our repetoire, & also playing & learning from preferably BETTER accomplished musicians than ourselves). In addition to rasing the level of professionalism of our arranger keyboard performance, we might finally gain the respect of our non-arranger keyboard musician peers out there as well, and on a $1,200 PSR2000 keyboard to boot."
--------------------------------------

Well said Scott.. That's why I always like using my own styles... If you keep using the styles of the keyboard you'll get some repetition. Customizing your own styles adds a personal touch to the music.. By creating and using your own styles the keyboard will now reflect the performer and not the maker...

Squeak

KN_Fan,
You're absolutely right... If you're into dance/techno, rap/hip hop/r&b, ect that Triton Studio is going to blow your mind when creating these styles of music.. Even the Classic was great for these styles... I think that's why I like the Motif so much too... It has a killer voice set for all that stuff, plus it has great acoustic instruments for throwing down nice scores and instrumentals that require good acoustic sounds.... The Motif too is killer at doing dance and so forth.. Especially with its integrated sampling sequencer.. I think the Studio now offers this but calls it something else.. Korg is also offering great deals right now with free cards and rebates to anyone how buys either the Classic or Studio....... Yamaha should do this.. Isn't Korg offering like $140 mail in rebates and choice of selected expansion boards, and a CD loaded with samples????? Yamaha pay attention to this.. Korg has their stuff right on this deal...

Squeak

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 05-05-2003).]

Squeak,
I sell both the Korg Tritons and the Yamaha Motifs. Yamaha has recently dropped the price of the Motif 8 by $200.00 instead of making you mail in a rebate slip and wait for your money and the price of the Motif 6 and motif 7 are already hundreds of dollars less than the Triton Classics. A Triton classic 61 key has a List price of $2995.00 and the Motif 6 has a list price of $2250.00 and the Tritonpro (76 key) has a list price of $3495.00 and the Motif 7 is $2795.00 as a list price. So, Korg felt it neccessary to give the rebates and free stuff to compete with the Motif's pricing. The Le Korgs are less than the Motif prices but do not include a sampler unless you add it as an option and the Le's don't have as many effects or knobs as either the Triton Classics, Studios or Motifs.
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California

Ahhhhh thanks George.. That makes sense.. The Motif is considerably less than the studio.. I can see why Korg is offering the rebates. I wonder why Korg has them so high priced though.. The Triton classic with rebate comes down to what $1999??? You'd think they'd go a little lower considering the Classics competition was and still is the EX-5..... Now that's replaced by the Motif and it's competitor is the Studio. I wonder if Korg really just hits you up on not just the hype, but that touch screen.. Does it really cost them that much to make them???

Squeak

I'm from the other forum. I have a KN6500 for sale at a very reasonable price. This is not the reason for this post. I have an opinion----

I would never think of buying a computer that has less features. I do not want to buy a computer or keyboard that I will outgrow quickly. Most of the new high end keyboards can be played in a simple manner, Staying at a beginners level.
When you become ready, the next level is there waiting. I would buy the best I can afford.

Most intetested people with interest purchase a beginners model in the $150-300 range. Shortly after they have lost their interest. It is terrible to play a set of drums that leave much to be desired. Or to play a trumpet that leaves you nowhere.

Success=A good student,a good teacher, and a good instrument.

I can say that the Technics is the friendliest keyboard for beginners or advanced players. This statement has nothing to do with my keyboard.

This is my humble opinion. It comes from a good bit of knowledge of Technics keyboards, and very little of others.
John C

I just saw a story on the news about so many peole up in arms because they never recieved their REBATES! I'm talking about big companies also. Why Rebates? Can't they just reduce the price in the first place?

Alrighty here's a little more help for the new members and those new to keyboards.. I'm going to list some decent boards to get you started...

Casio WK 1600/1800
--fairly decent sound, both models carry 76 keys with pitchbend and modulation wheels. Styles aren't bad (not the best, and also not the worst either), both models allow voice editing (basic editing features), 6 tracks for recording. If I'm correct the 1600 models gives you 5200 notes, and the 1800 gives you 8000 notes and the addition of a floppy disk drive.. Both allow pattern recording.. However, the pattern recorder does not loop or overdub, but you can make your own patterns and use them just like the presets. Some voices have been carried over from Casio's former flagship the MZ-2000.. Both have good speaker system.. Good bass, and hi end as well. Easy to read backlit screens too. Both models also make damn good midi contollers.

Yamaha:
--PSR 340/350 Both almost identical with just minor differences. Both have good sounds for the price, half decent sketch pad, neither have pitchbend wheel, both have a floppy disk drive.. A great starter board if you can do without a pitchbend wheel.

--PSR 540/550 Both good keyboards.. The 540 has great sounds, 61 keys with pitchbend wheel, 16 track sequencer, style recorder, floppy disk drive, HUGE bright display that is easy to read, fairly decent speakers, neither have actual voice editing parameters like decay, ect., The PSR-550 is the same thing with a few added features: Increased memory for voices, mulit color backlit display (back light changes colors according to function), music data base, and a better cosmetic look.

PSR 640/740 The 640 is a stripped down version of the 740.. It has less memory for voices, 32 note poly, good styles, 4 variations per style, 16 tracks for recording, does't carry the DSP power of the 740, style recorder, dual screens (one dot matrix, and one back lit LCD), good speakers... The 640 is a great keyboard for the money.. It sounds great, and you can accomplish a lot with it.. If you can do without the added features of the 740 this too is a great keyboard. The 740 is quite an upgrade from the 640. It has more memory, more poly (64 voice), vocalizer, organ flutes, digital EQ with custom settings, adds a modulation wheel, much more DSP power, and more styles.. It too has 16 tracks for recording as well as a style recorder too.... This is a great sounding keyboard... Many of the pros and hobbiest on this forum have owned or still own this board. There is not a steep learning curve, and it's a joy to play.

PSR 1000/2000
--Yammies more recent keyboards, and boy are they nice.... The PSR-1000 is the upgrade for the PSR-640, but with more toys.. New look, screen like that of the PSR-9000, improved voices, and finally.. internal memory for song recording (not disk based like the 640), 16 tracks for recording plus style recording,--it does however carry 32 note poly-- 4 variations per style, and improved styles as well as more of them, again doesn't have the full DSP power of PSR-2000. For the money it's a darn good keyboard. The PSR-2000 has several upgrades like the 740 did compared to the 640.. The PSR-2000 will give you improved voices, better styles, drawbars, vocalizer, modulations wheel and a few other things.. The PSR-2000 is in its own class when compared to other keyboards in its price range. Both models have improved speakers, Both models also have been given the ability to edit the voices You could not do this on the previous models.. The PSR-2000 will please any beginner and the well seasoned player too. Just ask anyone here who owns one and you'll get a crap load of support for this model..

Roland has the EM-15, and EM-25: Both not bad sounding, styles are pretty good, neither have pitchbending, not so good speakers, decent back lit screens, These two models are good starter keybords... However don't overpay for these models.. Some places have had these listed fairly high for what they're capable of doing...

With the Yamahas the PSR-340, PSR-540, PSR-640, and PSR-740 can still be found on a few websites, even though they have been replaced with recent models... However ebay has these models up for sale all the time..


Squeak

I got my Triton Studio new from guitar center when it first came out. I couldn't bring the price down...so I asked for a few things instead (Korg carry on bag, a Microphone PLUS stand, nice sony MDR headphone, a couple cables, and I snatched a keyboard magazine off the stand too ) I also got the "$400 worth" of gifts including a sampler CD and the CD burner. This was during the promo period.

I think the reason why they give rebates- because people like receiving gifts....one of those marketing gimmicks. "Wow...the keyboard is pretty expensive...but look..they give you extra stuff and some cash back"...some people have the psychology also that "more expensive=better"

My decision to buying this keyboard was also a 'brave' decision on my part. KNOWING that I may have problems adjusting/learning. I still bought the keyboard, because I figured I want to be more "universal" and learn other keyboards too rather than only play one brand (devoted to Technics for almost 13 years). Although first couple months I was totally overwhelmed and the Studio went over my head. Now...although its still not Technics...its better though.

Posted by KN_Fan
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and I snatched a keyboard magazine off the stand too
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That's funny..

Squeak

Hey! three bucks is three bucks! Nothin' funny about that! (Can you even believe they said 'no' first?? Those cheap bastards! ha.ha.ha..)

Hi,
as a keyboard junkie from way back, who always has to have top of the line, I recently decided I'd buy secondhand (ONLY if the source is reliable) or buy the previous runout model instead of the latest. In this way I can get a top of the line keyboard, at a reasonable price.
ie I recently managed to buy a secondhand VA7 for less than a third of original recommended retail price. It cost me about the same or a bit less than a brand new (discounted) PSR 2000 would have. I'm not knocking the PSR2000 ( great keyboard), but I already own a 9000pro.

To me, keyboards are a bit like cars, as soon as you take them out of the showroom, the value drops drastically. I've yet to find a dealer who'll give you a reasonable tradein for a secondhand keyboard. They appear to really not want them. Maybe this only happens here in Australia?

best wishes
Rikki