Have you had success at playing with other live musicians when using your arranger keyboard? What are you experiences and suggestions? For an upcoming gig I will apparently be accompanied by a guitarist and a percussionist (have not rehearsed with either of them yet...and not sure I'll get the chance!). They wanted to also add a drummer but that's where I put my foot down. Years ago I tried muting the drum tracks of the styles and having a live drummer follow the other tracks - it was a nightmare.... Has anyone ever made that work?

I use a live guitar player now because that's the only musician we have. It works great. I just turn down the guitar parts on my PA1x pro and he fills in the rest or adds on top.

If We were able to get a live drummer I would just tog to layered sounds and not use the arranger functions.

hope this helps,

Jeff

Marck-

I've had good success with a sax guy and a pedal steel guy. I had poor success with a drummer/bass player.

A few other guys have had good results with other rythym section pieces...so, its a mixed bag, I'm afraid...

As long as the other two musicians listen and try to compliment what your arranger is doing...theoretically at least...it should be ok...

Good luck-

Bill in Dayton

I would suggest if you are playing with other rhythm players..guitar and drummer...forget the arranger..turn it off..play left hand bass and right hand parts..

Some drummers can play along with an arranger/ sequencer.,interaction. We are lucky, we have one of those drummers..

Guitar and sax should have no problems, they have to follow a chord progression , no matter what method.

I would think you 'd enjoy playing with good instrumentalist in a band situation..just turn the automatic stuff off..of course if they are not good, that is another story..who needs them

Forgot to mention..never turn your drum tracks off and expect a drummer to play along with the other parts..they can't do it..they have to be a follower, and not the pace[tempo] setter..they need the click track, or reference track..I would have them play over the drum track..only..

[This message has been edited by Fran Carango (edited 01-24-2007).]

It's worked well for me with sax and guitar...
t.

I'm with Tony...a good guitar and sax works nicely, and I do that kind of thing often. Also, a good percussionist (in my case, the sax/flute player doubles on percussion) works nicely. Bill hit it on the head. Bass and drums can be a nightmare with arranger function. If you use either, it's often best to turn off the arranger function and play left-hand bass (using the arranger drums is possible) or let the bass and drums cover the job.


The good news is, YOU control the job and have a lot of flexibility

, in terms of how you put the group together. If you run into trouble, send them all home, turn on the arranger and "knock em dead" (just kidding). Man, it would be good to have a little time with the other players so they can see how things will go down.


good luck!


Russ

Try a 6 piece (including vocalists) with keyboard, bass, lead guitar and sax players (instrumentalists) and 2 lead/background vocalist. All I do is mute the Bass track ... with Reggae, Soca, Salsa ... etc the enegry is just right.

The Arranger alone may sound cleaner ... however it is very very difficult to do a solo act in a night club and expect people to dance ... they do clap best though ...

AJ

Marc,

No rehersals, plus working with a drummer--NAH! This spells disaster. Forget the drummer, stick with the guitar player, and if you have to get a sax player. Or, better yet, hire a drop-dead georgous female vocalist with an incredible voice.

Good Luck,

Gary

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Travlin' Easy

Rats. After all these years of watching what I THOUGHT was people dancing. Sheesh ..... thanx for popping my bubble, AJ.



Seriously - there is SOME truth in what he says. It's difficult, but FAR from impossible. Like the song says:

"The difficult, I'll do right now ... the impossible will take a little while!"

Remember how to get to Carnagie Hall folks ....

Oh yes, one more quick thought -
I'm on my way to a nightclub in Atlantic City to so a solo dance act. Wish me luck!

I am wondering if it depends on the age of the dancers ?
younger audiences seem to need the loud music, thumping bass, lights, etc.
Older people just seem to need the music, sometimes just the music in their hearts.

Dave,

I was wondering what all those folks were doing on the dance-floor! I guess I'll have to re-think my performance strategy.

Cheers,

Gary

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Travlin' Easy

AGe has a HUGE effect on the acceptance factor with electronic musicians. There is no doubt that the 20-30 yr olds are less likely to dance to an arranger pattern with out enough "influence" ..... alcohyl, mating rituals etc.
With age comes wisdom ........ and tolerance ..... and tact.
At least, one HOPES!

By asking for directions.



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Khoi huk ngam sud tee huk kon diow.

every aturday night i jam using my Korg arranger with alive bassist live guitarist live sophonist and another keybosrd. Usually i only use the drums,percusion and horns tracks on the arranger.So long as every one hears the drum tracks and follows my lead it all works great.

...not the way I heard it !
( not sure what you said next .... wanna translate. please? )

There is something about the self-sufficiency of arrangers that tempt many of us to go solo and try to make ALL the money! But the cost, IMHO, is too great. Music is a form of communication, and the audience is the LAST in the chain.

First of all, the communication between the musicians is the one thing that turns a sterile rendition of a tune (you've got to play up a storm to cover up the endless repetition of the short arranger patterns) into a musical conversation that will be different every time you play, and hold the interest of an audience. Especially a repeat audience, that has heard you once already......

Secondly, a musical partner (enough of this talk about hiring sidemen, try to find a partner that you respect) will challenge you, take you places, musically, that you don't go by yourself, and introduce you to songs and even styles that you wouldn't touch by yourself.... All important things if you wish to grow and improve as a musician.

And finally, strength through numbers! Two makes moving PA and heavy keyboards a lot easier, two makes negotiating with management easier (harder to intimidate BOTH of you!), two halves the workload on your voice, two makes poxy vocal harmonizers less necessary.....

And don't forget, your arranger is STILL a very capable regular keyboard, splits and layers, forget about it! There's no reason (unless you really AREN'T playing well enough to cut it!) to not take it and play with a full band every now and again. It is all to easy to forget what TRUE music making is, the more you understand your role in a real band, the easier it is to play what is appropriate when you ARE playing solo.

No man is an island...... don't wall yourself off from the real reason you went into music in the first place - the camaraderie and joy of playing music with others......

I LOVE playing solo...30 years of playing in groups has been enlightening for the most part, but it hardly compares to the joy of being in complete control.

I have on several occasions, worked with a sax player, and a few times with a guitarist, but I didn't buy my arranger to play with other musicians...I bought it so I could play solo.

Sure it's lots of fun to jam with others, and I have done it many times, but for paying gigs, I would think it a bit foolhardy to gig without several rehearsals...and that creates complications.

I'm more interested in making a living at this, and, with the way clubs are paying nowadays, the more people in the band means less money in the pocket.

Kudos to those who can afford it, and have the luxury of great players they can call upon and who can fit in perfectly at a moments notice....whatever floats your boat.

I've always been a loner, and I can do without the camaraderie...I didn't get into music for that reason...I got into it because it was a passion...and a way to get girls.

Keeping it simple with a lightweight arranger and sound system has made it a profitable and rewarding experience for me.


Ian

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Remember to leave good news alone.

I get SO many offers from other musicians to "work together". Sax men, guitar players, drummers, singer, etc. While I am a little flattered, the real reason they are wanting to do this is because I'm working, and they, for the most part, aren't. In other words, they need me to make a duo, but I don't really need them. Even if I were able to double my price, it is still a lot harder to accommodate another picker than it is to do a solo. Also, most would want an even split, even though I would be making the bulk of the music, supplying the pa, getting the bookings, etc.
I do enjoy interacting with other musicians, I just have found I make more money going it alone, and with less work involved. When a job demands an extra body or two, I just hire a sax player of guitar player for a set fee, usually $100. and keep the rest myself. It's my profession, but a sideline for most musicians. I've found I can get really talented sidemen for very little money. (But I do like to be fair with them).
So when I am approached by another musician, I now tell them, "Sure, my minimum price is $___. Let me know when you book something for us and I'll check my calendar."
DonM

I am afraid that, in my area (Panhandle of FL), there are FAR more working guitarists as singles than keyboard players. Perhaps, because of the number of full bands already working, when a club or restaurant only wants a solo, they are looking more for acoustic music or singer/songwriter type music, rather than a 'full band' sounding solo artist. The karaoke aspect makes many stay away from it.

It has been easier (and more rewarding) to book myself as a duo and up than as a solo. Admittedly, I am not working the old folks circuit, where arrangers get more work, most play country/folk, Buffett and tropical music 'round here, and the more, the merrier.

I got to feel sad for anyone that prefers solitary music-making just for the money. Keeping things fresh is, in the long run, far more satisfying and less likely to make you want to quit music and work in an office or sell real estate!

You MIGHT not make as much money, though most of the best-paid entertainers in my area play in bands, but you will stay loving music for longer.....

I wholeheartedly agree with Don and Ian. I began playing in a group when at 17, picking out leads with a 6-string electric. Never made enough money to pay for gas, cigarettes and booze back then. Things didn't change much until I went solo. Then the jobs began coming in on a regular basis. When I was playing the clubs, there wasn't a night that went by when someone didn't come up and tell me they were a guitar player, bass player, drummer, sax player, etc., and was I interested in doing some duo or trio work with them. It didn't take long to discover they were not working, I was, and they were looking for bookings.

Now I only do the clubs once in a while, lots of private parties, lots of nursing homes, assisted living centers and retirement communities. Those folks are probably still out there looking for work.

Cheers,

Gary

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Travlin' Easy

Ian, Don I totally agree times have surly changed big time....after 20 yrs of 7pcs....& now for the last 16 as a
Power Single it is so much more lucrative, creative, & self satisfying in so many ways.. I would never look back or have any regrets or desire at all to play any other way then with my Arranger, Laptop,
& my Voice.

I have never worked the "old folks" circuit, although I do have great respect for those who do.

Preferring solitude and being lonely are two different things...I find it much easier to be creative when I am alone...others may differ, but that's what makes all this so interesting.

I don't do the vocal thing, so it is hardly a Karaoke gig, and I rehearse enough to keep things fresh and interesting....that's why I'm always gigging I guess, and the constant work keeps me aware of what people want...I always keep a record of requests I may not know at the time and I learn the tunes.

It all boils down to personal satisfaction and contentment to me...why be unhappy playing in a band if it's not what you really want, and it isn't what I want.

No reason for anyone to feel sad for me in my solitary method of making music...I am content...I don't really care if it is not anyone else's idea of how I should go about it...it works for me and it works very well.

Some people need other musicians on stage with them because they are too insecure to go it alone and take all the responsibility... and that's fine too, as long as they are content with it....some want the camaraderie...that's cool too.

Again, it all boils down to what works for each individual...for me it is a solo gig that makes me happier....the extra money is just a sweet by product.

Ian



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Remember to leave good news alone.

The strange thing is that these solo musicians, although ostensibly they secure enough in themselves to play alone, are desperately trying to sound as if they DO have a bunch of guys onstage, playing with them.... Almost as if they don't have enough confidence in what they play to eschew the automatic backing.

If solo creativity is what you crave, get a piano and just play that. Plenty of great musicians have made a name (and a living) by doing just that. But if you feel the need for full arranger backing, you are basically admitting that you AREN'T strong enough to go it alone. Or that what the audience REALLY wants is a real band, but the club's finances or the performer's greed or insecurity about playing with others dictate that path. Don't try to pass it off as preference unless you are willing to TRULY go solo.

Very few of the great performers of out times preferred to play alone, other than a few pianists and guitarists, and most of them split time between solo work and ensemble. They felt the need to recharge their creative juices from time to time, and when they played solo, they played solo, NOT to a backing track.

Maybe I'm just lucky, and have had the privilege of playing with musicians that made me WANT to keep playing with live players, that could NEVER be comparable to the canned phrases that come out of arrangers. Your mileage may vary.

-------------------------------------------------

If the above sounds a little harsh, please forgive me. It's just that I've never been accused of preferring to play with others as a crutch to my insecurity!

No man is an island......

Certainly nothing you said sounded harsh to me Diki, and please be clear on the fact that I did not accuse you of "preferring to play with others as a crutch to my insecurity"

If you put yourself in that category, it was your own doing, I was merely generalizing and if I offended you, I am sorry.

I don't want to play a piano and be famous...I want to play an arranger and make a living on my own terms, not yours, not anybody's.

If you have been lucky enough to play with good people, than that's wonderful...more power to you!

I have enough confidence in my playing to use automatic backing, and my rules for playing are made by me, not you.

You are very far from being an authority on what works for me in my musical world...my only suggestion would be to follow your own advice and apply your rules rigorously to your own world.

If you are busy happily doing your own thing, then you shouldn't have time left over to tell me how to do mine...

All the best,

Ian




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Remember to leave good news alone.