just checked the korg website for new stuff from namm and the m3 looks like it will be one super 'board with 4 karma modules available together with lots of other stuff...no demos yet...this mus be the "mini oasys" that people have been talking about...mind you have not seen any price indications yet either (out here oasys retails for about $13,000) so this would prob be in the $6000 range i would guess

[This message has been edited by miden (edited 01-18-2007).]

Here are some stunning demos of the new Korg M3 Workstation by Stephen Kay.


Korg M3 demos


Think of this as the OASYS LE + KARMA2 + RADIAS at an attractive price point.
As always Stephen's demos are breathtaking. He deserves a special award.

Listen to demo #3 - Funk of the Future. The Korg M3 sounds exactly like the OASYS.
I think this new beast is going to eclipse the Yamaha Motif XS.

Tapas

thanks tapas

just checked it out..superb..i think you may be right in that it will give the XS a run...those karma features are awesome!!! wonder what the price will be???

[This message has been edited by miden (edited 01-18-2007).]

Miden,

The list price on the 61 key Korg M3 will be $2699 according to a rumor on KorgForums. This means the street price on this unit will be around $2000. This could be a great add-on synth for someone who already has an 88 key workstation with all the bread and butter sounds.

The Touch Screen doubles as an X-Y KAOSS PAD. Very elegant.

Tapas

Quite pleasant acoustic sounds, although most modern arrangers have better.
Synth sounds are no better then what could be achieved 10 – 15 years ago.
As hardware add on it will probably be fine, but for less money you can get software VSTs which leave it for dead in all departments.
Just my opinion

Bill

I dont get the whoile thing about Karma technology. Surely its just a glorified arranger with less direct control over the styles and patterns. From what i understand the scenes are differnt nearly every time and you cant repeat a performance exactly as you played it the last time. How does that fit into the concept of a work station ? It cant be even compared to the yamaha xs because that is a deicated workstation for very high standard conventional productions. You kjnow, the stuff that people actually use and make a living from. Can anyone tell me what song, or composition that is commercially available that uses Karma technology ? Maybe it is there and i just bhavent heard any . And can someone tell me what's so cool about having an instrument that like the karma ?

Okay, I'll take a stab at trying to explain what Karma is all about and why it's miles ahead of your average step sequencer/arranger.

Firstly, a couple of corrections. You can easily recreate any performance. Do the same things and the same results will be forthcoming if you wish. However, you may not wish this to be the case in which case you can set up Karma to introduce random elements that give it a much more human feel and so, in those cases, yes.. every perfomrnace would be slightly different. (No bad thing in my mind)

Secondly, Karma 2 is found in the Korg Oasys (The premier Professional Recording Synth on the market today) and now the M3, which by all acouints that I have read so far, has the edge over the XS after doing side by side comparisons (I like the XS btw.. nice sounds for a nice price but it's capabilities (and it's interface) are somewhat less than the M3 in many areas)

Thirdly, take a few well known Keyboard players who use the Oasys regularly both live and in the studio, such as Jordan Rudess, Keith Emerson, Herbie Hancock for starters and listen to any of their recent work and you will hear Karma 2. You may not realize you are listening to Karma because it's not always so readily apparent (see my example below) but it's there.

The bit about the Karma you are missing I think, is that it is not *just* a complicated arranger. It does lots of other things too.

As a simple example;

Take an acoustic guitar sound. Use Karma 2 to play various articulations such as trills, slides, picking & pulling and bends depending on *how* you play the keyboard. There are literally loads of these kinds of articultions available to use with any of the sounds/instruments the Oasys has onboard such as flutes, violins, pianos, percussion, harps (some of the glissando's are extraordinary!)and whatever else and many of these are things that are almost impossible to play via a standard keyboard let alone play them live during a performance without the help of Karma. The resulting performance has a 'real' quality about it that helps create a much more convincing emulation of a 'real' instrument than wouldn't be possible otherwise and in real time too, not just in the studio environment. The fact that they are so seemlessly done by Karma is often why people don't even realize they are listening to an emulation and even if they underatnd that they don't realize how much work Karma is doing, 'behind the scenes' to add to the performance.

The above example is just one of Karma's talents and there are many more besides the complex arranger functions that most assume to be Karma's primary function.

The other thing of note about Karma, is it isn't a case of what you get is what you have to use. With the use of the Karma Editor (and Karma 2 editor coming out soon) you can easily create new GE's (the little bits of info that Karmna uses to create it's unique abilities) and use those yourself. You can tailor any GE to your own tastes.... add new articulations for example to help recreate the sound of, say... bagpipes if you so wish by adding in the 'wheeze' of the bladder being squeezed for example, or subtle changes in tuning to recreate the differences in the strength of the air passing through to reeds depending on how hard the bladder is being compressed or add subtle timing and tuning differences to a solo so it sounds like 10 players are all playing at the same time.. Karma can do all of this, live and with ease.

If you would like to hear some examples of what I am talking about, listen to the songs on my website (link in my sig) Everything there is played live using Karma. I didn't use any sequencers to edit/create/change any of the notes being played live. They are just recorded as they were played.

Try listening to "A little drop of..." and you will hear Karma playing all the backing acoustic guitar strumming sounds, Karma helping me recreate the multiple plucking sound of the lead instrument at the beginning, Karma assisting me with bends and Amp distortions for the lead electric guitar sounds and Karma creating the evolving drum patterns throughout the track, dependant on what I was playing at the time, all live and all in real time.

Or try listening to "Trust". Just a simple 4 chord piece with Karma doing everything based on four simple chords played except the top lead sounds throughout. Karma is helping me with the snare drum articulations, the various drum patterns themselves, guitar slides and trills, electric guitar strums and arpeggios, violin vibratos, FX changes, modelled guitar sound variations and so on.. the list is almost endless.

Finally, try listening to 'Machine- The Genesis Mix" especially the last 3 minutes or so. Karma is doing everything, running flat out if you like, playing all the backing tracks, doing the synth lines, emulating typical Tony Banks arpeggiators, playing the drum tracks based on what rhythms I am playing with the chords in the left hand, harmonizing my right hand solos, creating and playing new solos and harmonies that it works out from realtime analisys of what I am playing, wave sequencing, sound changing, filter mods, volume mixing and again, so much more than simple pattern arranging.

For more info and examples, goto www.karmalab.com and watch the live videos by Stephen Kay (creator and the brains behind Karma's implementation on the Oasys and M3)

I suspect you will be just as amazed as I was, the first time I watched them!

Cheers..

Nigel


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The Art Of Sound Website

[This message has been edited by TheArtOfSound (edited 01-29-2007).]

[This message has been edited by TheArtOfSound (edited 01-29-2007).]

That new M3 is a freakin BEAST!!!! It's so cool that the screen will also function like a Kaoss Pad. That tripped me out watching the demo of it used. I didn't even know that was a feature until he used it.

Spalding the Karma Technology is no joke man. You can do some crazy stuff with it, plus if my understanding is correct the M3 features Karma tech based on the Korg Oasys. Go to Korgs website and have a look at what Karma does to guitars

Squeake did you order one yet.....?

I thought Squeak had the hots for the Yamaha Mini Mo....

Ian

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Remember to leave good news alone.

Well something new is on the Horizon for me very soon. Still looking at the menu at the moment. I still have a few questions about the MM6 that I'm waiting to to get a reply to from Yamaha.

The M3 is very impressive too. I think I read somewhere that the 61 key version is going to be around or just under the price of the Yamaha XS6. I'm also curious to see where the prices on the current models will be at once the newer models are released. Very interested in seeing what the Roland Fantom X6 will drop too

I listened to the demos Nigel.Al of them .Theres no doubting the beauty and pathos in the hauntings melody of " a little drop " . Lovely music but surely it just proves my point that the Oasys performs similar functions to an aranger. The changes in the sound textures are very subtle and ifthe recording was all done in one take then that in itself is impressive but isnt that essentially what an arranger does ?

Im sorry i still dont get what all the fuss is about with Karma.loved the violin in "trust", It was very authentic sounding. and i like what i am hearing in gneral for that genre of music but couldnt all of that have been produced on contemporary synths but you would have had more direct control over the sequences ?

The Karma still seems to me to be just the next step up in arranger technology

GREAT post nigel!!! if anyone wanted more about Karma they would have to ask stephen kay...i am seriously looking at the M3 now, having dismissed the MM6 as a bit of a gimmicky toy...also if i read correctly, the m3 will also be available as a standalone module, which if true mean i will order one sight unseen!!
dennis

It looks a bit like one of those Technics arrangers (kn6000/7000) dont'cha think?

Building on the success story of the original Karm....yeah..RIGHT..


Kay is the only one in the world that can demo it..He has lived with Karma for what 6 years...

Tell me guys, what gigs are you going to work with the M3..It is a novelty instrument..A repackaged Triton synth with Karma modes....

Sorry, I am not interested ..

It does sound good with Kay at the helm..but I could barely get thru the demo..for my ears..NO GO

No offense to you folks that liked it...just my own opinion..

I was thinking K7 also

just as a matter of interest, out here there is a group called Rogue Traders and 80% of their sound is created by an Oasys...just thought i'd mention it..the band is a female lead singer, drummer and a keyboard player with the oasys and from what i hear in their music the karma tech is used a LOT, so i dont think its just stephen kay who can play with karma...granted it is a lot more hi tech and in depth with what you can tweak, arrange, setup etc etc, but it seems if you bother to learn it it would be very rewarding, more so imho, than the same style sounding exactly the same way for 90 bars...it is the subtle differences that make the biggest impact, once again just my own view.
cheers

miden, I am sure you are right, but I can't see the average arranger player using this board for Pop music and Dance music..

Most of the players here have complained about setting up the keyboards..they mentioned they want to play out of the box..No way they are going to use the M3..

Personally, I like the challenge of programming and setting up my keyboards to suit me..the M3 might just be a little more for what I would get out of it..

yeah, i agree with you on those points fran, im assuming you mean "dance " as in pop, pop-rock, sorta stuff...coz the m3 and karma would be ideally suited to hiphop, garage, funk, modern rock,house, teckno etc etc
dennis

that is right Dennis..

Firstly, thanks for the kind comments in regards to my demo's. Much appreciated.

Yes, Karma and now Karma 2, is the next step up from your typical arranger but it's a huge leap not just a step and that leap takes you in a totally different direction, musically, than would the next gen of arranger keyboards.

It's hard to explain it in words but using Karma is a whole new experience compared to using an arranger. Even the best ones out there, pale in comparison, imho at least. It's also worth noting though, that an Oasys with Karma 2 is *not* an arranger keyboard and was never intended to be one. It might have a few similarities on the surface, but they are just vague similarities and do not have really much in common at all.

I was like you, when I first got my Karma keybaord. Nice arranger functions, like a very complex step sequencer but that was all. Fun and a bit of a novelty but how would I, or even would I ever, use it in the real world of performance and recording?

I dabbled around with my little dark red Karma for about a year and then suddenly, one day, I 'got it'. I stopped thinking of it as a complicated arranger type keyboard as such and began using it as an extention of my own musical abilities to play along side me and help be do things I could never do, due to my terrible playing technique!

It was then and only then, that I realised how much more Karma was than what it seemed on paper.

I guess you simply have to use one for a while before the reality of what it really can do, sinks in. As soon as the Oasys came out with a version of Karma that is over 4 times more powerful that the original Karma keyboard, with an interface that is so much simplier to use, thanks to the graphic display and touch screen stuff as well as the work surfaces, then it was like a prayer answered from heaven for me at least. I sold a lot of my older gear and bought the Oasys and have never looked back.

The Oasys is not for everyone and it certainly isn't for someone who wants or needs arranger type functions because it will surely disappoint that type of user. However, for a creative musician who is in search of fresh and constantly new inspirations to compose and perform music, the Oasys is just the right 'beast' to fulfil those needs.

No problem but it's worth pointing out a couple of factual errors in your post.

First, it's not a repackaged Triton. Actually it has far more in common with a repackaged, cut down Oasys than the Triton range at all.

Secondly, Stephen Kay is not the only person who can demo the M3. Given that the M3 and the Oasys have almost identical Karma 2 functions then It is really easy to work with as I know from working for over a year with the Oasys. Actually, the easiest thing you can do with the M3 is to demo it because of Karma which is so simple to use and yet can produce these amazingly complex sounds and arrangements/ideas.

Finally, I have to agree with you about Stephens videos. Not my style of music either (even though it is excellently played and performed...) but if you look beyond the music and see what he is actually doing and how he is doing it, it's an amazingly simple and yet incredibly powerful demonstration of Karma 2 in a live situation.


Anyhow, no offence taken at all.. and yes, Karma 2 in either the M3 or Oasys, is not for everyone. That I fully agree with wholeheartedly.

Cheers..

Nigel



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The Art Of Sound Website

Here's another page of M3 demos, at Korg;
http://www.korg.com/gear/prod_info.asp?A_PROD_NO=M3&category_id=1

Click on the mp3 button....

[This message has been edited by Diki (edited 01-31-2007).]

thanks diki....great demos, i didn't think korg could create a piano that sounded that good!!and some of the drums and guitars are not too dusty either!!this m3 is certainly sounding like the business, now if only i can confirm they have a module version!!
cheers
dennis

PS read thru some info on the site and it is available as the M3-m module only yaaayyy!!!i will start saving the pennies now!!

[This message has been edited by miden (edited 01-31-2007).]

[This message has been edited by miden (edited 01-31-2007).]

You can buy the M3 without the attached keyboard (it's called the M3-M).

I am still waiting to hear if the sample load times have improved, as of now (Triton Extreme, MotifES) all of these workstations have glacial load up times that make it impractical for live use.

The new MotifXS has USB2 and ethernet connectivity, and USB2 connections on the M3, but no posted information exists for sample load time, yet......

Let's hope they finally join the 21st century in regards to memory loading times, I am fed up of my ancient K2500 being the fastest non-computer sampler on the planet (MS, Neko and Receptor are all computers)..........

Korg is going to clean house with the (M3-M). It's no secret, that the demand has "always" been there for full module versions of the synths. The makers would have you think otherwise, but they held back on making the full function rack versions because those sales were competeing directly with the sale of the keyboard itself. Hell the success of the original Triton Rack, and EX-5R are evidence enough. The M3-M will be an great addition to an existing set up (not to mention the space you're gonna save).

I did not hear that the M3-m is going to be 19" rack-able, though..... I was under the impression it is going to be the top piece that is attached to the keyboard as a standalone.... Sort of like the old Oberheim Xpander in form factor.

That's a shame, IMO. I prefer the protection of rack gear.