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#205216 - 09/09/04 01:07 PM
Roland's New Pro Arranger - G 70
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Senior Member
Registered: 11/24/99
Posts: 3305
Loc: Reseda, California USA
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It's always fun for me to get an early lead on somthing new getting ready to be announced. I know many of you read this forum waiting to hear just this kind of information. I am letting you in on what's soon to be announced by Roland Europe in the next few weeks........just a little sooner! On October 1, 2004 Roland will be unvailing a new 76 key "top of the line" arranger keyboard. I am going to give you what information I have from a very reliable source who has preliminary data sheets and pictures of this new keyboard.
The 76 key keyboard has the same action found in Roland's G1000 keyboard (the one Fran loves so much). This will be good news for many who preferred this keybed over the current VA76. This was also used in the Roland XP80. There are no speakers on board.
The polyphony is 128 note
There is a large color screen
The operation is all push buttons......NO touchscreen on this model!(Seems like Roland listened to most of you who disliked the touch screen)
The keyboard looks more like the G1000 but with some looks from the VA76 (mostly because of the large square screen)
192 MB of rom sounds.(largest in Roland's current keyboards). 1598 tones in 16(or maybe18) catagories. The Ultimate Grand Piano from the Fantom X is included.
270 styles using a new "Progressive Style Technology". Each style has 4 variations, 4 intros, 4 endings and 6 Fill ins(that's right, "6" fill ins.)
There is a floppy drive, a PC Card Slot which takes the same adaptor as a lap top computer for using all kinds of external storage devices including IBM Micro Drives.
Internally there is 50MB of memory (that's quite a lot!)
One SRX Expansion slot is provided for adding additional sounds from Rolands huge library.
A fully programmable VK8 Virtual Organ is included with 9 faders right under the screen for complete control. There is a B3 Emulator featuring, like the VK8 Percussion, Leakage, Overdrive, Vibrato, Leslie and Registrations.
A feature from the Discover 5 which allows you to change all of the data while playing a SMF is available and then storing while on the fly.
Adaptive Chord Voicing- Intelligent Chord voicing while playing the style with the left hand so as to not hear any "jump" in octave of certain style parts while moving up the keyboard.
Vocal Harmonizer with seperate audio output and seperate effects processor.
Audio Stereo inputs with seperate effects (85 different effects)
Each section of the keyboard has it's own effects (some more than 1 or 2) seperate from the other parts. Right hand has 3, Backing styles have 2, VK Organ has 3 (Rotory, Vibrato and Overdrive. The Vocal input has noise gate, compressor, Reverb and Delay.
D-Beam is included
Screen will display the Score and the Lyrics.
Video out is standard on the back to view on a large TV or Monitor.
16 track sequencer with Micro Scope Edit
Chord extractor will provide chords when playing back a standard midi file which does not include chords.
Programmable One Touch settings within the styles.
144 User Programs with no limit to how many can be stored when using a PC card storage device.(I'm not real clear on this one!)
Vocal harmonizer presets include 30 small, 30 ensemble and 24 vocodor setups. There are also talk, voice effects, auto pitch and singer modes.
The G70 doesn't appear to have sampling or hard disk recording. I asked about this and I was told no, but again this was a quick look over a fax from Italy. This is the information I have right now. I've been told the product will begin showing up by the end of the year in Europe and probably will not be shown until the Winter NAMM show here in the USA. Price is not known at this time until it's official unvailing in October in Europe. George Kaye Kaye's Music Scene Reseda, California
_________________________
George Kaye Kaye's Music Scene (Closed after 51 years) West Hills, California (Retired 2021)
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#205234 - 09/09/04 05:44 PM
Re: Roland's New Pro Arranger - G 70
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Member
Registered: 12/03/99
Posts: 732
Loc: Phoenix, AZ USA
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I am glad to see Roland has not abandoned its participation in the high-end arranger keyboard market. Of course, the proof will be in the pudding, but if they kept what was done right in the G1000, I will be buying one. From George's post, it seems that they have addressed most (if not all) of my gripes - the polyphony, the vocal harmonizer, a good sound set, no touchscreen, but all buttons, the One Touch settings per style, no more ZIP, and solid state storage instead - btw, the 2 GB compact flash card costs about $160, and the adaptor for PCMCIA slot is another $10 - a cost-effective way to store loads of stuff, better than the USB dongle, which sticks out.
I agree with Fran - sampling is something I would not do, if I want a sampled sound, I'd use a laptop with a audio card, and appropriate software. However, it would be nice to be able to download additional sounds into the keyboard's memory.
A question to George - 50 MB of internal memory seems like a lot, way too much for storing user presets, or even sequences. What do you think it is used for? Must be for some audio data.
As for the price, Roland high-end stuff is usually quite expensive. I would guess a list of $3499, and street price of $2900 - this is not cheap, but the build quality of Roland is usually quite good, and to me it seems to offer a better combination of features than the Korg's stuff does.
Regards, Alex
_________________________
Regards, Alex
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#205236 - 09/10/04 12:48 AM
Re: Roland's New Pro Arranger - G 70
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Senior Member
Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 2417
Loc: CA
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Originally posted by Alex K: btw, the 2 GB compact flash card costs about $160, and the adaptor for PCMCIA slot is another $10 - a cost-effective way to store loads of stuff, better than the USB dongle, which sticks out.
A question to George - 50 MB of internal memory seems like a lot, way too much for storing user presets, or even sequences. What do you think it is used for? Must be for some audio data.
Regards, Alex
With a 2GB Compact Flash Card and or 50MB of internal User Memory it is a shame Roland left off Sampling capability. Tell me it isn't so George! NO AUDIO capability at all with all that SPACE??? ![](http://www.handykult.de/plaudersmilies.de//sad/conf.gif) And I thought the Tyros was the only Keyboard to give massive Space via a Hard Drive and then not give any Audio data capability... ![](http://www.handykult.de/plaudersmilies.de//eek7.gif) It will take a lifetime to fill up my Tyros Hard Drive with dinky Midi Files and Styles, etc. What a pity... I am guessing that the 50 MB internal Memory will be co-habited when using the SRX Expansion Card. In other words, when the SRX Expansion Card slot is occupied, the Card itself will take up much of the internal memory. Just a guess but why else would they put so much internal memory when there is NO AUDIO capability? There's got to be a reason I would think. Other than that, I think Roland is on to something here. They did address many of the things that were left off the G1000 and VA-76. And putting a modeled VK-8 Organ with B3 emulation on it will give the G-70 some killer Organ sounds. Stereo Audio (Inputs) is a welcome sight. Plus a separate Output and Effects Processor for the Vocal Harmonizer. Very cool! Hopefully the Key Action can be adjusted?!?!? Something that up until now hasn't been done, right? ![](http://www.handykult.de/plaudersmilies.de//sad/schmoll2.gif) There's gotta be a way to do it I would think. Flip a switch and the Action goes from Heavy to Medium to Light if need be. All at the touch of a button. ![](http://www.handykult.de/plaudersmilies.de//happy/xyxthumbs.gif) I doubt it will be adjustable but hey, they've been known to do some other radical things. Like the D-Beam Controller and new VariPhrase technology. So an adjustable Keybed Action is right up their alley I would think. ![](http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/smile.gif) If they keep the price under $3K they should sell a bunch of them. BUT!!!!! Stand back Boys! Remember Yammie is going to be unveiling the "Tyros PRO XL" -[name has been changed to protect its real identity] which btw, the above name could indeed be its real name. ![](http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/wink.gif) I'm looking forward to the new Tyros' specifications with bated breath too. But Yamaha Music Division will need to pull out all the stops if they want to 'remain' king of the hill. They have their job cut out for them that's for sure. But I am rooting for them, especially since I've invested so much of my hard earned cash into the Yamaha name. Let the best man, err.. Company win!! Best regards, Mike [This message has been edited by keybplayer (edited 09-11-2004).]
_________________________
Yamaha Genos, Mackie HR824 MKII Studio Monitors, Mackie 1202 VLZ Pro Mixer (made in USA), Cakewalk Sonar Platinum, Shure SM58 vocal mic.
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#205241 - 09/10/04 07:19 AM
Re: Roland's New Pro Arranger - G 70
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Senior Member
Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 9673
Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA
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Jim, you are correct,but Roland handles polyphony a whole lot better than Yamaha,Korg and Ketron..and that is a proving fact....For example, the PSR9000 [128] couldn't compete with the G1000[64],,how to play without dropouts, and in some examples with older PSR's, shut off[no sound when polyphony is used up]...When it comes to voice allocation Roland knows what they are doing...Numbers don't tell the real story...playing does...
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#205245 - 09/10/04 08:50 AM
Re: Roland's New Pro Arranger - G 70
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Senior Member
Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 9673
Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA
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Starkeeper, the models you mention were not designed to be low end models...First was the G800, the top of the line 76 keys, than the G600,which was the top of the line,61 keys...followed by the top of the line G1000 that replaced the G800.. Some players are hoping Roland makes other models along the lines of the G70...a 61 key version [G50?]and a model with speakers [EXR50?]..
This is more common in the home piano division,,EM2000, EM50, EM25, and EM15.. The E series usually had/has the top of the line model..E-600 and previously the E-500.. Earlier models, E-70,E-86 and E-96.. each replaced the former model as the top of the line model..
[This message has been edited by Fran Carango (edited 09-10-2004).]
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#205251 - 09/10/04 10:24 AM
Re: Roland's New Pro Arranger - G 70
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Senior Member
Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 9673
Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA
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A couple comments on George's post..Roland uses the term performances as Yamaha calls registration,,When Roland states that you can recall from the 144 performance locations as well as those stored on the saved media...This feature available on the VA-7 version 2, allows realtime selection of performances that can be used as "music assistant"[Yamaha song finder],recalled from internal or zip [as in the VA-7]..This is a great feature...
The other feature I like to comment on,,is the singer mode , taken from the DisCover 5..This allows you to set up the keyboard that it reads your vocal range automatically, when you play a sequence it is keyed for your range..You can save different singer modes for other individuals as well as your own..They are easily selected and stay active unless you change the singer..This defaults to normal at power up...
[This message has been edited by Fran Carango (edited 09-10-2004).]
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#205257 - 09/10/04 08:29 PM
Re: Roland's New Pro Arranger - G 70
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Member
Registered: 07/13/03
Posts: 321
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Originally posted by Fran Carango:
This is more common in the home piano division,,EM2000, EM50, EM25, and EM15.. The E series usually had/has the top of the line model..E-600 and previously the E-500.. Earlier models, E-70,E-86 and E-96.. each replaced the former model as the top of the line model..
[This message has been edited by Fran Carango (edited 09-10-2004).] A little disagreement: Even though Em-2000 has a model name that starts with EM it doesn`t mean that it`s in line with Em-25/15... Em-2000 is exactly the same as G-1000 but 62 keys and speakers and some other munor differences.. A question (to all) How many MBs of sound ROM does G-70 will have? and how about the sounds? Will the sequencer have the same "Working..." problem as G-1000/VA-76/7/Em-2000? No Sampler, good, no need to pay extra money for stuff not needed.... Any pictures of G-70? Will there be VariPhrase, touch controller? I think that that G-70 will be a down- version of G-1000, if it would be an upgrade it would be someting like G-1500 or VA-100... but that`s just my opinion. [This message has been edited by Vadim (edited 09-10-2004).] [This message has been edited by Vadim (edited 09-11-2004).]
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#205258 - 09/11/04 02:40 PM
Re: Roland's New Pro Arranger - G 70
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Senior Member
Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 9673
Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA
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Vadim, when I mentioned the EM2000, it was intended to show it as the top of the line model..showing the other models as lower end models of the series..
There are major differences between the EM2000 and the G1000, not the basic sound engine, but things like seperate outs, source sliders, seperate midi ins and outs, and the overall quality of the EM2000 does not match the G1000..
Roland in the past has always designated "70" and "1000" as their top models...I am sure this G70 is a grade or two above the G1000..
Also a reminder, Variphrase is a sampler...
Vadim BTW, most EM2000's have 61 keys[just kidding with you]..
Fear not ,Roland will always incorporate aftertouch on flagship models..
The D-Beam is very useful , especially with organ parameters and style control parameters..
I would like to see Roland continue the VariPhrase on the G70..it is so easy to use and assign to any realtime part and/or sequence part...It's a shame the vast majority of VA owners never really got into this feature, especially with the Version 2 upgraded VA-7..With that 50mg internal ram, the Variphrase could be a highlight...of course most would still not use it[fear of something new]..
[This message has been edited by Fran Carango (edited 09-11-2004).]
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#205269 - 09/15/04 10:49 AM
Re: Roland's New Pro Arranger - G 70
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Hello Mister George Kaye: Maybe you now more about the new Roland arranger and have maybe som picture's is this possible to play with two sequence's
The 76 key keyboard has the same action found in Roland's G1000 keyboard (the one Fran loves so much). This will be good news for many who preferred this keybed over the current VA76. This was also used in the Roland XP80. There are no speakers on board.
The polyphony is 128 note
There is a large color screen
The operation is all push buttons......NO touchscreen on this model!(Seems like Roland listened to most of you who disliked the touch screen)
The keyboard looks more like the G1000 but with some looks from the VA76 (mostly because of the large square screen)
192 MB of rom sounds.(largest in Roland's current keyboards). 1598 tones in 16(or maybe18) catagories. The Ultimate Grand Piano from the Fantom X is included.
270 styles using a new "Progressive Style Technology". Each style has 4 variations, 4 intros, 4 endings and 6 Fill ins(that's right, "6" fill ins.)
There is a floppy drive, a PC Card Slot which takes the same adaptor as a lap top computer for using all kinds of external storage devices including IBM Micro Drives.
Internally there is 50MB of memory (that's quite a lot!)
One SRX Expansion slot is provided for adding additional sounds from Rolands huge library.
A fully programmable VK8 Virtual Organ is included with 9 faders right under the screen for complete control. There is a B3 Emulator featuring, like the VK8 Percussion, Leakage, Overdrive, Vibrato, Leslie and Registrations.
A feature from the Discover 5 which allows you to change all of the data while playing a SMF is available and then storing while on the fly.
Adaptive Chord Voicing- Intelligent Chord voicing while playing the style with the left hand so as to not hear any "jump" in octave of certain style parts while moving up the keyboard.
Vocal Harmonizer with seperate audio output and seperate effects processor.
Audio Stereo inputs with seperate effects (85 different effects)
Each section of the keyboard has it's own effects (some more than 1 or 2) seperate from the other parts. Right hand has 3, Backing styles have 2, VK Organ has 3 (Rotory, Vibrato and Overdrive. The Vocal input has noise gate, compressor, Reverb and Delay.
D-Beam is included
Screen will display the Score and the Lyrics.
Video out is standard on the back to view on a large TV or Monitor.
16 track sequencer with Micro Scope Edit
Chord extractor will provide chords when playing back a standard midi file which does not include chords.
Programmable One Touch settings within the styles.
144 User Programs with no limit to how many can be stored when using a PC card storage device.(I'm not real clear on this one!)
Vocal harmonizer presets include 30 small, 30 ensemble and 24 vocodor setups. There are also talk, voice effects, auto pitch and singer modes.
The G70 doesn't appear to have sampling or hard disk recording. I asked about this and I was told no, but again this was a quick look over a fax from Italy. This is the information I have right now. I've been told the product will begin showing up by the end of the year in Europe and probably will not be shown until the Winter NAMM show here in the USA. Price is not known at this time until it's official unvailing in October in Europe. George Kaye Kaye's Music Scene Reseda, California
[/B][/QUOTE]
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#205272 - 09/15/04 02:52 PM
Re: Roland's New Pro Arranger - G 70
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Member
Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 1155
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Originally posted by Vadim: VariPhrase was totaly useless(it`s just a vocal sampler) when I was buying my VA-76 i thought I will be able to record Audio into sequncer(because of the input), when I got more familiar with it I teried to sample a guitar and other stuff from CDs, that`s when I relized it only Vocal sampler, if it would have been vocal harmonizer it would be great but... it`s not...
you want sampler on Arranger keyboard... never gonna happen(my opinion). ArrangerKeyboards were made primarily for live purposes, they also have a sequencer primarily for playing back MIDI files, if they gonna put a sampler on Arranger, those keyboards would be unafordable. Music Workstations are the ones that have sampler and stuff... Maybe some of you misunderstood this Roland G-70 ArrangerKeybord(ArrangerWorkstation), with MusicWorkstation/Sampler... Remember that the genesys has the arranger, sequencer, sampler and harddisk recorder. The korg pax if I am not mistaken also has a sampler. Adding samples to a style is becoming another way of making a style more interesting. Keyboards today whether "arrangers" or "work stations", should not be with out the ability to load or create samples. I just can not see myself having a keyboard in the future with out a sampler and a sequencer.
_________________________
TTG
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#205273 - 09/15/04 03:50 PM
Re: Roland's New Pro Arranger - G 70
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Junior Member
Registered: 07/16/00
Posts: 19
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Gem, Pa1x, pa80, 9000pro, ketron SD1 have a sampler. Why there will not be a sampler in G70? Because if I have sampler on arranger, one day I'll have a wish to upgrade some drum kit. But Roland is No. 1. in drum sounding and save this thing only for himself, on the next 2008's year arranger.
Better approach for good sell is sample player in arranger, and offer some roland's expencive empty flash card, than srx rom cards.
If g70 has option for changiging kick or snare during live performance, without changing drum set, it will be nice. I think that more lock options in 'prf' (user program) will be nice too. And it's time for Roland to offer us some free software for making styles.
I'm loyal to Roland through past 10 years (W30, E16, E86, g600, G1000, Va7), but only weight and dimensions rejoin me from buying Pa1x. Now I'm waiting something, but I'm affraid in vain.
That's my opinion, sorry my English is bad. best regards. karlo
[This message has been edited by karlo (edited 09-15-2004).]
[This message has been edited by karlo (edited 09-15-2004).]
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#205276 - 09/17/04 12:03 PM
Re: Roland's New Pro Arranger - G 70
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Registered: 10/18/02
Posts: 105
Loc: Europe
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#205281 - 09/22/04 12:33 PM
Re: Roland's New Pro Arranger - G 70
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Senior Member
Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 9673
Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA
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#205293 - 09/23/04 03:18 PM
Re: Roland's New Pro Arranger - G 70
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Member
Registered: 12/03/99
Posts: 732
Loc: Phoenix, AZ USA
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Originally posted by digitalvision: C'mon, get real. Spend your money wisely! ![](http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/wink.gif) And how do you propose we do that? To buy a plastic wonder from Yamaha? or garganuan back-breaker from Korg which weighs more pounds than it has notes of polyphony? Or Ketron, who can not muster one of their sfaff to answer questions from loyal but frustrated users? There is no harm in being curious, especially when there is nothing out there at present that is good enough to replace one's present board, which is six years old. Perhaps this picture is not the real thing - we will find out in a week's time. However, if someone is willing to stake their credibility on this picture, I am certainly willing to risk my curiosity. I don't mean any offence to the people who use and/or like any of the above brands of instruments - I am glad it works for you. However, every time I tried them, there was always something stopping me from liking them enough to buy them. For the last 13 years I have been playing Roland keyboards, and knowing the quality of their sounds and styles, I am fairly certain that if the feature mix which George described at the beginning of this post is packaged well (I am not forced to use touch screen), then this will be a keyboard for me. Not that I will buy it before trying (or at least being able to return it). However, it seems that Roland have implemented a number of suggestions which I had written to them about. And heck, it appears that Roland even has a customer contact phone number now here in the US. So lighten up - this picture is not offensive to anyone. ![](http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/wink.gif) [This message has been edited by Alex K (edited 09-23-2004).]
_________________________
Regards, Alex
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#205297 - 09/24/04 09:25 AM
Re: Roland's New Pro Arranger - G 70
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Member
Registered: 08/24/04
Posts: 782
Loc: N Fort Myers, FL, USA
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Wow, if that is a touch screen, it's really small!
------------------ Graham
_________________________
Graham, Korg Pa1000, Korg G1 Air, Countryman E6, Roland BA330, 2 x Roland CM-30, , Mackie SRM150
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#205321 - 09/30/04 12:08 PM
Re: Roland's New Pro Arranger - G 70
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Member
Registered: 07/13/03
Posts: 321
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Originally posted by Fran Carango: Vadim, it usually takes 5-10 seconds to save the track.. yes, in the beggining, but when you have about 12 tracks and plus you did merging and punch in/out, that`s when it takes long time. Try to make a song about 100-150 (4/4 measures), 14 tracks, then merge more stuff to each track do some punc in/out, do some copy- from and to, do velocity change, and make sure each track eats a lot of polyphony, than it won`t take 5-10 seconds. that`s the thing i hate abour roland arrangers. For Example:In Korg Triton Studio as soon as you push stop you imidiatly can start recording another track.
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#205331 - 10/02/04 10:26 AM
Re: Roland's New Pro Arranger - G 70
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Senior Member
Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 2417
Loc: CA
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Wow! Those specs look mighty intriguing!! Kudos! to Roland for giving such a generous amount of internal storage memory at the tune of 50MB! That is really a welcome sight for sore eyes!! Finally a Keyboard manufacturer who has listened to the pleas of Keyboardists desire and longing for a decent amount of internal storage memory! It makes the Tyros 3.3MB look very paltry in comparison. ![](http://www.handykult.de/plaudersmilies.de//sad/bluecry.gif) But with all that internal memory there is no way to load WAV, AIFF, or AKAI samples unfortunately. Also, notice that Roland has given the G70 "16 bit linear" ROM samples. Yamaha's WAV ROM in their Arrangers are only sampled at 12 bit including the Tyros. So the G70 should sound very lush and very good with the higher quality sampled ROM. But unfortunately they didn't include a Digital I/O to go with it. ![](http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/frown.gif) SRX expandability is a truly welcome sight but why couldn't they have added more than 'one' slot?? A little skimpy if you ask me but a welcome sight nonetheless. A Touch Screen has been confirmed but using the G70 for live use may prove to be a rather challenging undertaking. 76 Keys is soooooooo nice!! I'm sure the Keybed will be luscious to play on! Roland is noted for their outstanding Key action and feel. Plus they should be true full-sized Keys too! ![](http://www.handykult.de/plaudersmilies.de//happy/xyxthumbs.gif) Although looking at the pic of the G70 leaves me with a little uncertainty if they are indeed really true 'full-sized' Keys. ![](http://www.handykult.de/plaudersmilies.de//sad/conf.gif) We shall see... Also the Adaptive Chord Voicing (ACV) seems to be more in line with Yamaha's extensive Chord recognition implementation on their Arrangers. Hopefully this means that the G70 will recognize and implement complicated and extensive Jazz chord voicings (rootless or otherwise). Extensive Chord recognition on Yammie Arrangers is a major reason I purchased the Yamaha brand instead of from one of the other manufacturers. This could change with the introduction of the G70 from Roland. Hopefully other manufacturers will follow suit. Although I am not certain Rolands Adaptive Chord Voicing (ACV) is what it is, or what I think and hope it is. ![](http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/smile.gif) And lastly but not least is the weight matter. Notice that Roland did not put the weight specs on the spec sheet. Does that mean they don't have a 'fully' assembled proto type built yet? What we are seeing in the G70 pic is perhaps just a 'shell' of the production model? No guts, no finished proto type yet? So no way to list the weight specs... Or perhaps Roland is still seeking ways to reduce the finished production model's weight hence the reason they didn't list it in the spec sheet? Perhaps a newly discovered composite material has been made available which is super strong and "super light" and Roland is considering utilizing it in the new G70? ![](http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/biggrin.gif) The Roland Fantom X7 (76 key version) weighs only 32 lbs. Will the G70 be at least in the same ball park as the Fantom X7? If it is they will sell a boat load of them for that reason alone IMO. ![](http://www.handykult.de/plaudersmilies.de//happy/xyxthumbs.gif) If it weighs in at 25 lbs. or under, it will indeed be an amazing feat by Roland if it does. Best regards, Mike
_________________________
Yamaha Genos, Mackie HR824 MKII Studio Monitors, Mackie 1202 VLZ Pro Mixer (made in USA), Cakewalk Sonar Platinum, Shure SM58 vocal mic.
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#205332 - 10/02/04 01:31 PM
Re: Roland's New Pro Arranger - G 70
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Member
Registered: 09/20/04
Posts: 95
Loc: Dallas, Boston, Orlando
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Well, to ThePro..
You may be a Pro, and me just an Amateur, but gimme a break dude.
Yes, I posted on another thread that I wish they would merge the Tyros+Motif. What's wrong with that. Let me reply to your 'Pro' comments.
"I've even read in other threads that the keyboard companys should merge the 2 types and have only one kind of keyboards. Everyone who doesn't understand the diference should at least try to get some more information about it."
...but you obviously did not read the post well enough to understand what I was saying.
Not that I wish Yamaha would merge the "two types", as you state in your post, (alluding to a desire for functionality of both machines in one) but rather I just wish that arrangers had the same variety and quality of sounds as is found in the workstations like the Motif.
As I stated, I am a happy PSR2000 owner, but I find the sounds very limited, and the important sounds like Piano to be flat and lifeless. Hard to understand seeing that Yamaha makes both machines. I don't want to use my arranger like a workstation, I simply want to have my arranger to produce sounds of extreme quality such as in the Motif, and of much better variety.
Does anyone else agree? Russ
_________________________
Russ Bolduc russbolduc@tx.rr.com 817-714-0488
PSR S900 Korg PA1XPRO Kurzweil PC3X Logitech Z
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#205333 - 10/02/04 06:49 PM
Re: Roland's New Pro Arranger - G 70
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Member
Registered: 06/19/00
Posts: 83
Loc: UK
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Man, jeez, 116 posts on this topic so far. and I'm still waiting on a reply as to what the hell is NEW IN THIS KEYBOARD? Oh, 2 fills, colour screen, etc.......
Don't get me wrong, I'll post the same sarcastic stuff no matter who the manufacturer is, but this stuff is getting OLD, TIRED, why bother......
C'mon people, please DEMAND new features, not hand-me-down's from other products. Where's dynamic improvisational accomp's, karma-type features, etc. Let's hear some ideas as to how to make these products better.
Please do remember, and I'm as big a culprit as anyone that if you keep posting in this thread about this product, or any other product specific you're playing the game that manufactures want you to play.
Let's hear (HOPEFULLY IN NEW THREADS, WHICH I'LL GLADLY TAKE PART IN) about new ideas for arranger keyboards, where they're going, what WE WOULD LIKE TO SEE.
ANYONE?
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#205334 - 10/02/04 09:16 PM
Re: Roland's New Pro Arranger - G 70
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Member
Registered: 12/03/99
Posts: 732
Loc: Phoenix, AZ USA
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Originally posted by George Kaye: The touchscreen question has been answered and I was wrong. I know how much we enjoy sharing information with each other here at the Synthzone and when I've been given some new info I get it out as soon as I can. George Kaye Kaye's Music Scene Reseda, California George, I for one want to thank you once again for posting the information about the G-70. I am convinced that the info you had posted you believed to be most accurate; besides, Roland's published product info really buries the meniton of touchscreen. I hope you continue appraising us of the news in arranger keyboards (and other related topics), despite the disparaging comments of some of the posters here. While I think that it is unfortunate that Roland decided to continue putting the touch screens on the arrangers (I would much rather prefer the screen navigation like on the Fantom (high density display with buttons underneath), I am going to reserve the judgement on usability of this instrument until I can play it myself. Still, It is good to have information about the instrument ahead of time, so that once I do lay my hands on one, I can pay more attention to the areas of possible concern. Thanks again, Alex
_________________________
Regards, Alex
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#205335 - 10/03/04 08:09 AM
Re: Roland's New Pro Arranger - G 70
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Senior Member
Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 2866
Loc: Tampa, FL
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Originally posted by digitalvision: Man, jeez, 116 posts on this topic so far. and I'm still waiting on a reply as to what the hell is NEW IN THIS KEYBOARD? Oh, 2 fills, colour screen, etc.......
What's new is all these features in a SINGLE keyboard. Adaptive Chord Voicing, 76 keys, Virtual Tone Wheels, 16 bit Piano Sample, Color Screen, etc, etc. Can you name me another keyboard that has all these features?. hmmmmm?
_________________________
Al
Pa4x - LD Systems Maui 28 - Mackie Thumps
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#205341 - 10/03/04 02:33 PM
Re: Roland's New Pro Arranger - G 70
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Member
Registered: 12/03/99
Posts: 732
Loc: Phoenix, AZ USA
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I did not think it would come to me agreeing with D'vision, but I can't help but agree to his proposal of on-line support - right now Roland's support is the worst on the market, and a major consideration I have AGAINST buying another Roland instrument.
As far as a dockable touchscreen - for arranger keyboards this is one stupid idea - while it may help the manufacturers cut costs of building a keyboard (making it all software based), it is totally inappropriate for an arranger keyboard, where the player relies on the tactile feedback from the buttons as an acknowledgement of his action. The touch screen can not provide that, and is therefore UNSUITABLE as the primary way to control an arranger keyboard. If workstation players like it, fine, but I believe all of us who perform singles, utilizing arranger capabilities, are in agreement about touchscreens.
I think it is time to close this thread, as it is getting too long.
REgards
_________________________
Regards, Alex
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#205345 - 10/04/04 02:55 AM
Re: Roland's New Pro Arranger - G 70
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Junior Member
Registered: 09/18/04
Posts: 30
Loc: Portugal
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Originally posted by TresorTX: Well, to ThePro..
You may be a Pro, and me just an Amateur, but gimme a break dude.
Yes, I posted on another thread that I wish they would merge the Tyros+Motif. What's wrong with that. Let me reply to your 'Pro' comments.
"I've even read in other threads that the keyboard companys should merge the 2 types and have only one kind of keyboards. Everyone who doesn't understand the diference should at least try to get some more information about it."
...but you obviously did not read the post well enough to understand what I was saying.
Not that I wish Yamaha would merge the "two types", as you state in your post, (alluding to a desire for functionality of both machines in one) but rather I just wish that arrangers had the same variety and quality of sounds as is found in the workstations like the Motif.
As I stated, I am a happy PSR2000 owner, but I find the sounds very limited, and the important sounds like Piano to be flat and lifeless. Hard to understand seeing that Yamaha makes both machines. I don't want to use my arranger like a workstation, I simply want to have my arranger to produce sounds of extreme quality such as in the Motif, and of much better variety.
Does anyone else agree? Russ
Sorry tresortx but it was me and not a Pro who made the post (I'm a car seller actually) "...but you obviously did not read the post well enough to understand what I was saying". I went back to find that I was not refering to you. I was not even refering this forum. And I was, obviously, NOT stating that "arrangers should not have the best sound possible". I only think that as we ask for more and more specs, namely the digital outs, we end up with a very expensive keyboard with a lot of things we do not use (see how many question the Variphrase on the VA for example). It happens all the time - whats good for someone its not good for other. You proove that when you say your happy with your PSR but feel that the sounds could be better. That's why I'm ready to accept that I can't have all I want on a keyboard and still be satisfied with it. Personally I recomend you to buy, if possible, a sound module (why not the Motif rack) so you can enlarge your sound options. I still think that its good to have both types of machine so you can choose what's best for you. I also agree that this thread should be closed. I'll post a G-70 question (about the sound) on the Roland Arranger Forum (you're also invited TresorTx).Anyone following please? Regards
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#205346 - 10/04/04 04:01 AM
Re: Roland's New Pro Arranger - G 70
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Junior Member
Registered: 09/18/04
Posts: 30
Loc: Portugal
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Originally posted by digitalvision: My whole point is this forum and a very high percentage of its posts are behind the times, with little desire for revolutionary products. Some members seem to get excited that the G70 has a colour screen, like we didn't get colour TV back in the 70s or computers in 1981 that used colour.
The real deal is that due to the cost of developing these keyboards and because compared to computers, keys sell in far fewer quantities, the manufacturers have to use technology that is several generations behind what you would find on the latest PC.
Just ideas, but these are the type of features that would be excellent, rather than shelling out 2 and a half K every 2-3 years for 'upgrades'. shhhh.... man where are you from? Probably you have the latest "Intel Sound Board" along with 24bit-192Khz sampling on your PC (the same that the manufacters of the Motif, Triton and FantomX had to copy !!!...). Or you have the latest CPU from Intel (the one no one has ever heard about yet) right from the building block instead of a 3,2-P4. Or maybe Intel stoped developing chips so you don't have to do "upgrades" every 6 month to keep in-time. Do you really believe that you have the latest technology on your computer? Stating that "the (music) manufacturers have to use technology that is several generations behind what you would find on the latest PC" its so stupid that I can hardly believe. Want some examples: search for Yamaha Vocaloid, Roland V-Sinth, Korg Legacy or the Line6 Variax just to mention a few of the most knowed. Or what about Roland GS format beeing licenced by Microsof (find out that on the Windows XP manual). Not to mention the digital S/PDIF signal beeing developed by Sony and Philips. Suddenly, you send all the research and development centers from the most important music manufacters right to your Recycle Bin. At least search for information about Bose beeing present in the Space Shuttle (it will take you closer to "light") and you'll get a very small idea of what music manufacters are doing. And please ...BE REAL. [This message has been edited by Minimix (edited 10-04-2004).]
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#205347 - 10/04/04 10:38 AM
Re: Roland's New Pro Arranger - G 70
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Member
Registered: 06/19/00
Posts: 83
Loc: UK
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Probably you have the latest "Intel Sound Board" along with 24bit-192Khz sampling on your PC (the same that the manufacters of the Motif, Triton and FantomX had to copy !!!...). Or you have the latest CPU from Intel (the one no one has ever heard about yet) right from the building block instead of a 3,2-P4. Or maybe Intel stoped developing chips so you don't have to do "upgrades" every 6 month to keep in-time. Do you really believe that you have the latest technology on your computer? Stating that "the (music) manufacturers have to use technology that is several generations behind what you would find on the latest PC" its so stupid that I can hardly believe. Want some examples: search for Yamaha Vocaloid, Roland V-Sinth, Korg Legacy or the Line6 Variax just to mention a few of the most knowed. Or what about Roland GS format beeing licenced by Microsof (find out that on the Windows XP manual). Not to mention the digital S/PDIF signal beeing developed by Sony and Philips. Suddenly, you send all the research and development centers from the most important music manufacters right to your Recycle Bin. At least search for information about Bose beeing present in the Space Shuttle (it will take you closer to "light") and you'll get a very small idea of what music manufacters are doing. And please ...BE REAL. Mini, me thinks youve got the wrong end of the stick entirely and have quoted products out of thin air that dont relate to arrangers, or reality for that matter, and have intentionally taken the topic of course onto a scene that is best left to blip and blop dance soundmakers. If NASA is using BOSE in the shuttle, its probably cause theyre the one of the few organisations that can afford the bloody stuff! ![](http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/smile.gif) LOL ![](http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/wink.gif) Getting back to arranger keyboards, for want of some more down to earth ideas let's hear them, im all ears? p.s. are these light-emitting companies still using SIMMS at all? ![](http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/smile.gif) [This message has been edited by digitalvision (edited 10-04-2004).]
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#205348 - 10/04/04 10:50 AM
Re: Roland's New Pro Arranger - G 70
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Member
Registered: 12/03/99
Posts: 732
Loc: Phoenix, AZ USA
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Originally posted by digitalvision: Mini, me thinks youve got the wrong end of the stick entirely and have quoted products out of thin air that dont relate to arrangers, or reality for that matter, and have intentionally taken the topic of course onto a scene that is best left to blip and blop dance soundmakers. If NASA is using BOSE in the shuttle, its probably cause theyre the one of the few organisations that can afford the bloody stuff! LOL ![](http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/wink.gif)
Getting back to arranger keyboards, for want of some more down to earth ideas let's hear them, im all ears?The main computers which control the Space Shuttle date back to the late 1970s. My son's calculator has more computing capacity than the three space shuttle computers combined (used for triple redundancy). Their mass storage consists of 100 KB of non-volatile memory (each). I believe there is a way to reload the memory contents, but this is normally not done in flight. Nonetheless, they have proven reliability, and their software has been validated with many thousands of hours of testing. Most of all, they are quite adequate for the task they are intended to do. The same can be said about many of the keyboards (or other musical instruments). In fact, I had a turn of the century piano some time ago, which sounded and worked better than most Chinese wonders (no offence intended) which you would buy at a piano store today. Newer does not always mean better. I believe the arranger keyboards' primary purspose is to provide quality reproductions of the sounds of real instruments. To that end, I find that any of today's high end (and many mid-line) arrangers have achieved near-perfection. Having a complex synth engine would only complicate life of a performer.
_________________________
Regards, Alex
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#205352 - 10/04/04 12:38 PM
Re: Roland's New Pro Arranger - G 70
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Member
Registered: 12/03/99
Posts: 732
Loc: Phoenix, AZ USA
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Originally posted by digitalvision: Alex you have just proven my point in there being no growth with arrangers. Let us all accept what there is, with no room for ideas or real new products. In fact if this is the thinking that permeates this bbs for arranger keyboards, it is no wonder why the companies keep putting out upgrades.
In all sincerity if you get past my obnoxious attitude LOL some players just might come up with some other ideas, or is this bbs just a sounding board for companies?D'vision: My post was intended to illustrate that you do not always need the latest and greatest technology to accomplish the necessary tasks. You can read into it whatever you want: that the earth is flat, that JFK was assassinated by the Queen of England, or that 2+2=17. The majority of the arrangers are indeed repackaging exercises, with the emphasis being made on the user-friendliness, and ease of on-stage operation, as opposed to utilizing the new, unproven, and mostly useless musically, synth technologies - those are primarily used by the pre-sequenced acts. There is nothing wrong with the workstations: if you find them to be useful tools - more power to you. I have outgrown the synthesizer about 15 years ago, and find that the joy of playing music is best afforded by an arranger keyboard. It is geared to helping one play spontaneously with an accompaniment of a virtual band. If you don't like it, that is fine with me too. Have the arrangers improved from 10 years ago? - absolutely: the sound quality, the configurablity, storage and playback capabilities are all much better than they used to be. They contain more features useful for single or duo performers, such as audio inputs with effects, and vocal harmonizers. Are they "real" improvements? That is subjective - they may be real to me, but not to you, so let's agree to disagree here. Are they revolutionary - not by a long shot, nor they have to be, IMHO. You can make an electronic violin, but I doubt that it will be more playable than a Stradivarius (or even a run of the mill $2000 instrument). Is there room for improvement? I'd say that all of today's high-end instrument have traded off some of the user-friendliness for flexibility. It is the details of each individual implementation which make a difference. A packaging of a high-end keyboard can always incorporate more features. Would I want to see Karma-like features in an arranger? Perhaps, but in my limited amount of interaction with Karma (tried it in the stores quite a few times), I found it not a terribly useful tool musically. I am sure some of your ideas are good, but, like you said, they are awfully hard to see behind your obnoxious attitude. Perhaps if you toned it down a bit, your ideas would be taken more seriously.
_________________________
Regards, Alex
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#205358 - 10/05/04 01:56 PM
Re: Roland's New Pro Arranger - G 70
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Member
Registered: 02/22/04
Posts: 119
Loc: Berlin/ Germany
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Hi, I think, the G70s are available before Christmas, because it's the best time to sell keyboards (Easter it's unusal to give big gifts). The presentations (in Germany) are in November and December. I think, it would be the same in other countries. Today I received a music store's catalogue with the new G 70 and a price, like the initial VA 76 price (3000 Euro, the price, suggested by Roland is a little higher). For a YAMAHA Tyros I found offers of 2700 Euro and less. So, you can compare, what G 70 price you may expect. For me, a Roland could be interesting because I own many styles in Roland format too.
------------------ Regards RF
_________________________
Regards RF
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#205362 - 10/06/04 07:43 AM
Re: Roland's New Pro Arranger - G 70
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Senior Member
Registered: 07/09/02
Posts: 1087
Loc: Atlanta, Georgia
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Originally posted by digitalvision:
Given that im largely a lurker here i would hope regulars would take the initiative and post real requests for products and maybe then i can have a peace of mind in knowing that the bbs was out for the punter, cause it doesnt look that way from the outside. I think you have the misconception that we have some kind of influence over what keyboard makers include in their products. We don't... for example, we've all been saying that digital audio outputs would be welcome but obviously the G-70 doesn't have it so there's how much Roland listens to us (Korg's PA1XPro doesn't have it and I'd bet Yamaha's next pro arranger won't have it either). Never the less the G-70 includes V-Link technology, which nobody here asked for in an arranger to my knowledge, but it offers some intriguing possibilities for live multimedia performances that may truly set this arranger part from any other in the world. Now that's some spiffy hi-tech thinking, but the real question is who is going to setup to the plate and make use of this? And how? I'll bet Roland would be very interested to know that! Probably the most radical, breakthrough, new-thinking-departure-from-everything-else keyboard that has ever been discussed here is the Open Labs nEko. When it was announced it appeared to be the end-all answer: a keyboard with nearly infinite hard/software and configuration possibilities that wasn't beholden to the big music companies for support. It's still all that but at such a price that nearly everyone thinks that a good laptop and a controller would offer more for the money. So there's the ultimate arranger for you: a laptop and a controller... you can design it to do anything you want - now what do you want it to do? And why? IMHO manufacturers can only do so much when it comes to technology - by the time ANY product gets to us the technology that the product was designed around and programmed for, then finally manufactured and shipped is about 3-5 years old. Open Labs found a way to change that but darn few keyboardists of any kind have been willing to step up and buy one. It'd be different if they were selling like hotcakes - that's something that keyboard makers would pay attention to. But they aren't, and the hoopla has died down now, and the Tyros and Motifs' sales haven't suffered any because of the nEko to my knowledge. The fact is that most arranger buyers/players aren't Buck Rogers or Keith Emerson and we're not touring or cutting Grammy-award winning albums. We're localized players that are kings of small clubs & restaraunts and private parties. My Yamaha 9000 Pro was discontinued earlier this year and technologically it was passed by other keyboards well before that. However, the instrument never fails to impress people in the audience nightly - some write down what it is, others quiz me endlessly about it's features... it might as well be the latest thing for the attention it gets. Or perhaps it's the way I play it. It doesn't matter - what does matter is that I generate enough income with this instrument to support my home and family in comfort. That's more important to me than digital audio outputs. The question everyone wants to know has nothing to do with what keyboard features: it's what are YOU as a performer going to do with improved technology that is different from what we do with it today? Will you be playing restaraunts and private parties with a high-tech arranger or something radically different? What specific application is pushing your need for more? Because asking for more just for the sake of asking is just greed... but asking because it will make you a better performer and/or make a better living is the one of the reasons we're all here. A V-Link arranger... if that doesn't make you stop and think then you don't need it... ![](http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/smile.gif) [This message has been edited by The Pro (edited 10-06-2004).]
_________________________
Jim Eshleman
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#205363 - 10/06/04 02:39 PM
Re: Roland's New Pro Arranger - G 70
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Member
Registered: 09/10/02
Posts: 126
Loc: California, USA
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TP,
Youre right. Im sorry if it seemed that im putting down this amazing arranger. I should not, just because it doesnt have Digi outs. Much beautiful and famous music has been made with out digital outs and youre right, that just makes others look down at it too.
Perhaps, for my needs digi out is a must. But like you mentioned, for others like yourself making an honest living playing live, it doesnt matter at all. I apologize and I accept the correction. Maybe I blame that on this Mlan thing that has perhaps spoiled me too much. But anyways, guys, if it helps you make awsome music. Hey, Thats our ultimate purpose right? SO, Rock on !!!
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Peace,
Musikman4Christ........
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#205364 - 10/07/04 11:17 AM
Re: Roland's New Pro Arranger - G 70
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Member
Registered: 06/19/00
Posts: 83
Loc: UK
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I think you have the misconception that we have some kind of influence over what keyboard makers include in their products. We don't... for example, we've all been saying that digital audio outputs would be welcome but obviously the G-70 doesn't have it so there's how much Roland listens to us (Korg's PA1XPro doesn't have it and I'd bet Yamaha's next pro arranger won't have it either). Never the less the G-70 includes V-Link technology, which nobody here asked for in an arranger to my knowledge, but it offers some intriguing possibilities for live multimedia performances that may truly set this arranger part from any other in the world. Now that's some spiffy hi-tech thinking, but the real question is who is going to setup to the plate and make use of this? And how? I'll bet Roland would be very interested to know that! The influence comes in the form of cash and whether or not we part with it or not, and, when it comes to bbs, especially ones that have company reps as posters, there is the risk of the bbs serving as an early adopter/beta test site and relationships being made. Companies like Roland obviously do market research and as much as one or two posts may be made about digital outs, if the market research doesnt fit, it isnt put in. Being a Yamaha user, you will likely know that the G70 may need the Edirol DV-7PR Digital Video Workstation for the V-Link usage (not confirmed?) Probably the most radical, breakthrough, new-thinking-departure-from-everything-else keyboard that has ever been discussed here is the Open Labs nEko. When it was announced it appeared to be the end-all answer: a keyboard with nearly infinite hard/software and configuration possibilities that wasn't beholden to the big music companies for support. It's still all that but at such a price that nearly everyone thinks that a good laptop and a controller would offer more for the money. So there's the ultimate arranger for you: a laptop and a controller... you can design it to do anything you want - now what do you want it to do? And why? Sounds like youve been on Yams for too long! ![](http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/wink.gif) If it were a large company producing this instrument, things maybe different, who knows from one product brave enough to tread into waters that the big fish are scared of. Remember, if people dont vote with their wallets, you will get apathy and thats really obvious on this bbs. IMHO manufacturers can only do so much when it comes to technology - by the time ANY product gets to us the technology that the product was designed around and programmed for, then finally manufactured and shipped is about 3-5 years old. Open Labs found a way to change that but darn few keyboardists of any kind have been willing to step up and buy one. It'd be different if they were selling like hotcakes - that's something that keyboard makers would pay attention to. But they aren't, and the hoopla has died down now, and the Tyros and Motifs' sales haven't suffered any because of the nEko to my knowledge. As last comment. Your point about them using the latest tech isnt true. Just look at the memory types in keyboards and you will get a good idea. The fact is that most arranger buyers/players aren't Buck Rogers or Keith Emerson and we're not touring or cutting Grammy-award winning albums. We're localized players that are kings of small clubs & restaraunts and private parties. My Yamaha 9000 Pro was discontinued earlier this year and technologically it was passed by other keyboards well before that. However, the instrument never fails to impress people in the audience nightly - some write down what it is, others quiz me endlessly about it's features... it might as well be the latest thing for the attention it gets. Or perhaps it's the way I play it. It doesn't matter - what does matter is that I generate enough income with this instrument to support my home and family in comfort. That's more important to me than digital audio outputs.
The question everyone wants to know has nothing to do with what keyboard features: it's what are YOU as a performer going to do with improved technology that is different from what we do with it today? Will you be playing restaraunts and private parties with a high-tech arranger or something radically different? What specific application is pushing your need for more? Because asking for more just for the sake of asking is just greed... but asking because it will make you a better performer and/or make a better living is the one of the reasons we're all here. Whether youre playing a lets say traditional instrument like a guitar, banjo, violin ..... IS VERY DIFFERENT to playing a keyboard that is really a computer with keys. You are then in a place like any computer user that you can expect new features and software that makes what you do easier, better and near bug-free. As for a specific application that me or anyone else is out to get from these tech instruments, it is a desire for radical improvements and by that i dont mean upgrades. A good example the G70 has 190mb of samples, the previous top model had under 50. Now, some poor git might go out and get £500 for their old model and pay another £2000 for the new one. You know how some players, esp here, are sticklers for details, thinking, hey this board has nearly 3 times the amount of sounds, its going to sound amazing, just like 3 years ago, when that 50mb bettered the model before it, which had only 24.... You get the picture, and it is playing an upgrade game, and my whole point is that if we keep expecting and buying upgrades without thinking about the basics and whether they have been thought about then we may as well keep what weve got. For the record, this whole 'arranger' matter is true of Yamaha, Roland, Korg to name a few. The basics for arranger keyboards is chord recognition and styles and using those in whatever setting you see fit. You can improve upon those in many ways, and looking at models going as far back as '97, the basics havent been improved by much. More variations, fills, samples, colour screens, more buttons, buttons with lights or without, models with screens that tilt. All those 'upgrades' obviously help, but you rightly asked what is the great need, and the great need and desire is to have features that make arranging better. Styles could be improved with more use of being able to use samples, and even though Korgs have this and your 9000, it should be standard on anything above $1000. As should memories of 256mb for sample loading. They could also be improved by creating software that makes them easier to make and customise. Roland is doing this with the G70, but if its only as good as the VA then its not worth it. There should be computer software for this because it is complex. What about software that takes a MIDI file, you define the verse, chorus, bridge and it makes you a style in major and minor. This would hurt style sales of course. As for improving other basic arranger features I guess that calls for some serious R&D, which is spent on arrangers and not on copying features from synths. [This message has been edited by digitalvision (edited 10-07-2004).]
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