i have just purchased a ketron sd1+....the roland e-50 keys just didnt feel right (after an 88 note weighted board!!!) the pa800, whilst a solid performer, just lacked, hmmm, cant describe it, but it just didnt grab me...the new yammie s900 ahs been delayed so i found out due to some "problems" software or hardware i couldnt find out, but it has been delayed which means it wont hit Oz til about sept/oct.....and i got a GREAT deal on the brand new sd1+... i had not even contemplated this board, until a chance phone call to the dealer asking after a midjay, and i cannot believe everything it does....absolutley bloody brilliant, and it sounds brilliant as well...another interesting thing i found out was that the pa800 is actually built by ketron in their italian factory!!!(the sd1+ actuallly has the same keybed as the pa1xpro) and i was told most , if not all, of korg's italian branded keyboards are made by ketron!! so there ya go...
anyway i cannot wait for the 2 days until delivery, so i can "open the box"...
cheers
dennis

Congrats..Dennis...You did good..

thanx fran!!

Hi Dennis
Actually you will find that most European manufactures use Fatar (Italy again) keybeds in their instruments, which is why Korg, Ketron Wersi, Lionstracs etc feel the same.
As to the SD1 you will find it is a cracking board (Even though it�s quite old now 4 or 5 yrs I think) and easily a match for other mainstream manufactures, however the OS is not the most user friendly, but stick at it and you will have many years of enjoyment.

Bill

thanx bill, appreciate your thoughts
cheers
dennis

Congratulations Dennis,
wonders never cease. haahaa

It's a bit of a learning curve, but it does have some great sounds. How do the sounds compare to the Midjay, I never had the chance to do a comparison.

best wishes
Rikki

[QUOTE]Originally posted by miden:
[B]

Congrats with your new toy, Dennis. I'm happy for ya.

Taike

Dennis,
best to ya and yer new board. I am sure you will both do great
I am really getting into my new E 80 now that I am back from Holiday at least for a month until wife makes me load up the motorhome and go again
Good on ya,
Bebop

Dennis, I thought you had a Korg PA1X?

True?

You've sold it now for the SD?

I was under the impression that the SD only samples in Mono (and has only 16meg of Ram - that it shares I believe - and is not expandable) as opposed to the PA1X - and the Korg has a 40gig HD vs the SD1 's 6gig drive.

Am I correct in all this?

It seems a step sideways for you (and maybe a half-step back) - I hope you have a good time with your new board (really!) I'm just a little perplexed at this decision...

Have I got the wrong end of the stick here?? (I frequently do btw!)

hi hellboy...nah you got it right...sold the pa1xPro in march for a yammie s90es 88 note synth, for a new music project..that never really got off the ground, but it wasn't really a problem as the 90es was a great board...but recently found some probs with lower back and had to sell the 90 because of weight (25kgs with roadcase) i have never really been into sampling and never used it on the pa1x, so the criteria was weight, 76 notes, good sound, lyrics ability and vocal harmoniser....g70(prefered option) was too expensive..e60 had no harmoniser, yammies only have 61 notes....so sd1 was the only one to meet all criteria..
cheers
dennis
PS it sounds great but the op sys is, woh!!! way different to any ive used before!!!!

I only ask (anxiously) because I'm about to upgrade from my Roland VA-7, and the PA1X Pro Elite is firmly in my sights (I can get a great price).

I was also considering the SD (I agree, seems like a great board) but it looks like the Korg is for me (unless the damn Audya actually makes an appearance sometime this century!! lol)

So to hear you sold the PA1X made me pause...

What was the worst aspect of that board if you don't mind me asking?? - was it just the weight?

(Yes you did explain your decision well, I just thought an ex Korg owner might be candid about this board for a potential new owner...)

Thanks for any honesty you can give re this!

hi again,
umm, nothing really was bad about it, apart fro the big imbalances between the main variations and the fills/intros/outros...some of them, particularly outros, were just so not in keeping with the style variation you were playing..example if you are playing variation one, and want to end using variation one and the select an ending the volume and instrumentation was way over the top compared to the variation (usually okay when playing variation 4 though!!)....apparently this has been fixed on the op system and on the pa800 (which i also tried) but i didnt see a great deal of difference, there probably was, i just didnt notice it....thats one thing with the sd the intros/outros and fills seem to match whichever variation you are playing.....the harmoniser on the PA, whilst very good, was very fiddly to set up properly, but when setup worked well....to be honest if i could have got the same deal on the pa1xpro elite, and the sd1 it would have been close...probably the limited polyphony of the pa would have swung it for the sd as the Plus package and OS has actually increased the polyphony, so on the sd this could be further added to as it must be a software thing, wheras on the korg it is a hardware limitation....
hope that helps some...ask anything else you can think of before you buy if you like, i will try to answer it as best i can...bottom line? the pa1x is a super keyboard and in the elite form is even better...i really doubt if you will be disappointed....if you do buy one let me know(no i dont know if you use them or not) but i have about 200 midis set up for the pa1x that i am quite happy for you to have a copy of...all tweaked by me, and in some cases completely re-written...(whihc i have now got to do on the sd, and so far its proving to be rather complicated )
cheers
dennis

You know, that's a criticism LONG been leveled at Korg arrangers - sort of disjointed fills and intros and outros. What is Korg's problem...? If most everybody else (at least, all the majors) can figure out how to do smooth, integrated fills, etc., why can't Korg ever get this one right?

i have the Pa1x with the latest 3.01 OS . The fills/intros and outros are fine . Hasnt been a problem since version 2.52

I agree. About the only thing I don't like about the PA1xPro is the non-realtime (ie. file handling, tweaking, etc.) part of the OS. The T2 (which I also own but rarely use) is much more user-friendly. For the type of music I do, the Korg is the hands-down favorite for me. The Ketron styles would be a problem for me, but that's just personal taste. I'm not a big fan of the European-oriented styles.

But.......you know the drill; try before you buy. Personal opinions are just that, PERSONAL.

chas

just curious, what sort of music do u do Chas?

I'm rather eclectic musically but everything is pretty jazz oriented. What I write, what I play, and what I listen to, are sometimes quite different. I spent a good deal of my early musical life as a poor man's Jimmy Smith and a would-be Oscar Peterson if playing piano (never had his chops, of course). These days I mostly write (and arrange) with most of my stuff sounding like the background music on the weather channel or a Honda commercial (despised my many, ignored by most, loved by very few). I guess it's somewhere between contemporary jazz and what used to be known as jazz fusion.

So in answer to your original question, nothing of any musical consequence. It's more about not playing stuff I don't like (love jazz waltz, hate waltzes; love blues, hate "Mississippi Delta" blues; love jazz and rock organ, hate theatre organ; love classical, hate opera; love Willie Nelson, hate Country; etc., etc.). Is it getting clearer? Not to me.

chas

"Hate" is a strong word for a Musician....
I rather use "not my cup of tea"

Actually it's no stronger than love; besides, as long as it's not directed at people........for instance, most jazz guys absolutely worshiped Sinatra; but aside from admiring his track record with the ladies, he just wasn't my cup of tea. I much preferred Tony Bennett, Joe Williams, Shirley Horn, Carmen McRae, etc. Guess there's just no accounting for taste.

chas

Unfortunately Chas, I can't try before I buy as all the music stores I've tried around here don't have the PA1X.

I wanted to use the more contemporary styles of the PA1X instead of Roland's idea of Contemporary if you know what I mean...

Dennis -

One thing I want to bring up (again):

Is the polyphony really THAT much of a problem on the PA1X???

I work almost totally with SMFs and I'm prepared to pare them down even more instrumentation wise if I have too...

As long as, say the drums (specifically the kick drum) don't suffer from note drop out I'm ok with it - even the VA7 dropped out very occasionally and it had 128 note Polyphony (although how Roland come to their "polyphony note conclusions" has recently been up for debate - along with all other Manufacturer's formulas for calculating same...)

Also the other 2 big drawcards for me with the Korg are:

1. Sampling (drum loops etc) and then using said loops in SMF's and Styles - easy to do?????

2. Dual sequencer cross fading in between SMF's/MP3's to keep everyone on the dancefloor - works good?
Note drop out not a problem there????

Hi Hellboy,
wav drum loops can be used in SD1+'s also.
Don't know how easy it would be to sample them though.
I tried it when I bought my sd ( a couple of years ago) with some free mp3 loops I converted to wav files, I don't remember having any great difficulty incorporating them in a style. I didn't try it with midifiles though.

Commercial wav loop cd's can be a bit pricey for good quality ones, so I didn't really get too involved, and by now I've forgotten how I did it.

One option I have been considering when I get a chance, is trying some of the "real drum " wavloops I got with my BIAB2007 upgrade.


best wishes
Rikki


[QUOTE]Originally posted by hellboy44:
[B]
1. Sampling (drum loops etc) and then using said loops in SMF's and Styles - easy to do?????

hi hellboy,
polyphony was only really a problem when i was playing in full piano mode, but only with a relatively dense arranger style...the rest of the time it was not an issue (korg have some of the best note allocation algorothms going).
afaik drum loops can be sampled and used in styles and midis, but be aware that these are saved as user sounds, and if you also tweak effects to go with them, these cannot be accessed via external midi devices...they need to be edited and then saved within the PA sequencer.only having 2 insert efx for midi/style and 2 for live keyboard was an issue, particularly if you wanted some overdrive on your guitars, but wanted some, say, Lo-FI on a keyboard track, you couldnt do it and have reverb/chorus as well..its just the way korg set up the efx chain in the PA (in the synth keyboards its not a problem).the way its set up you have efx A+B for arranger/midi tracks and C+D for live keyboard tracks, and either set cannot be mixed.
on the crossfader, to be honest i never found the use for it...the access time for midis and mp3's was so quick between songs it was not required..BUT for someone who was doing more of a DJ type of gig, it would be very useful...be aware though that mp3's can only be used on the sequencer 1 side, not both, probably not an issue for you, but deserves mentioning..another thing that might interest you, as you seem to be wanting to use the sampler more than i did, it is quite slow at loading, too slow imo, for live gigging...plus the MAX memory is 32mb (it only has 2 16mb hardware slots...PLUS you usually have to unload samples before loading new ones, ie you cant load indiviual samples, say like the sd1, and have them all resident...i believe on the PA there is a way to compile your samples into a set so that you can have a few available at the same time, but this is still restricted by the 32mb...i remember buying the Piano Assault from Irish Acts, which took up all the ram, one instrument!!!i am thinking now with my sd of running sampling from my laptop, because i am thinking of buying the Ivory VSTi..if you do buy the PA you can have my Piano Assault if you want it (i will give it to you as i no longer will use it)..and i think its still hiding somehwere on my data drive...
hope that helps and i haven't rambled too much!!!
cheers
dennis

[This message has been edited by miden (edited 06-16-2007).]

[This message has been edited by miden (edited 06-16-2007).]

Hi Dennis,
personally haven't tried sampling in years, I wasn't much good at it.
I did actually find an unusal source of wav samples thru my soundfont banks. I split them up into wav file sets and manage to load them into the sd. My problem was then trying to make them sound any good. My knowledge on sound editing is very limited.
I couldn't get them to sound anywhere near as good as some of the sampled sounds in the sd, so I gave up. Even though I'm quite happy with the onboard sd sounds, it would be handy to be able to add some additional wav sounds.

Wouldn't something like the Ivory piano be a bit large??
The wav's I tried loading were only a few mb's.

best wishes
Rikki

[QUOTE]Originally posted by miden:
[B]

hi rikki,
the idea would be to play the ivory from the laptop, not load it into the SD, via midi..quite east to do with the right host, forte for example is one that comes to mind..also all the big DAW sequencers can also host vsti's and dxi's...just switch on the transmit channel of whichever keyboard channel you want to drive it...
dennis
PS i am also thinking of adding one of the great electric guitar vsti's as well...you could even set it up so that one, or more of the arranger tracks can also play the vsti too...the possibilities are endless (oops! should say almost endless)

[This message has been edited by miden (edited 06-17-2007).]

Hi Dennis,
that makes a bit more sense ( haahaa) don't know what I was thinking.

I actually tried what you mentioned a while back with a diffrent piano called True Piano
http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/Forum43/HTML/000081.html

The demo version worked really well with forte etc

Didn't actually try it with the SD1 as controller. I did try it with the psr1500 & my Clavinova & worked really well.

best wishes
Rikki

[QUOTE]Originally posted by miden:
[B]hi rikki,

Ok...well:

I'll be playing along to SMFs or even MP3's so I'm hoping that "helps" with the polyphony - I really hope that Korg's Algorhythms keep the drums (DEFINITELY THE KICK DRUM) going, as really, that's the most important thing.

I think I'm getting you re: FX.
My wife plays Electric Guitar (rhythm) so guitars aren't REALLY too much of a problem there.

Re Sampling memory I did expect the long loading times (what Arranger has fast sample loading times?) but I did NOT know you had to UNLOAD samples as well...

I understood there was at LEAST a couple of options regarding the PA1X piano:

1. At least one other sample set I've heard of takes up minimum Ram (about 16 meg I remember reading??)

2. Eq'ing the piano for more middle and bass "depth".

Finally I planned to get around any FX/Sampling Problems by recording some particularly sample intensive sequences internally in the PA and saving as an MP3 and then playing along with that MP3 live...

Do these all sound like reasonable workarounds to you?

(Thanks for your detailed reply btw - you guys here on this forum - and the Korg one - are my only hope - remember I cannot see this keyboard "in the flesh" to audition it properly as no loacal stores carry the PA1X Pro Elite...)

hi hellboy,
to put your mind at ease, i NEVER had any dropouts with drums, even on the most dense file+keyboards, i wouldnt be surprised to find that korg have set it up so that bass and drums are the last to go as far as poly goes...so in my view you will NEVER have a problem with the drums...having a live guitarist overcomes that issue nicely (and remember it was only an issue with me, i dont know about others.....as far as the sampling goes, its a pain but korg didnt develop a way to just add samples on the fly until the ram was taken up, as i said im sure there is a way to load all the samples you need at the one time, its some type of .set file, i know this because when you load the real drums set for example, it loads quite a few drum samples in memory which are then available for use within in any area of the board....this may be addressed with the latest op system due at the end of june, check out the news section at www.korgpa.com but it might just be for the pa800....the other workarounds you want to do, once again in my view, would work really, really well on this board...to be honest if only i could have held off buying a board until after january next year, i would have becasue i reckon korg are coming out with a ripper board at namm 08, just a feeling ive got, but yeah...
anyhoo, i still think you will not be disappointed with the pa, it remains one of the best imo...
dennis

Uh... really not. No connection of any kind between Ketron and Korg. Ketron doesn't even have a factory.
Paolo


[This message has been edited by ptram (edited 07-09-2007).]

hi paolo,
i was just repeating what the dealer said...but they (ketron) must have a manufacturing location, all the boards have made in italy, as do the korgs?? cheers
dennis

Dennis, there are several facilities assembling the products for various brands. Ketron uses one of these. In any case, they don't manufacture for other brands.

Paolo

Dennis,
I was in Ancona, Italy where both Generalmusic and Ketron are designed and manufactured. When I was touring the Generalmusic factory I saw hundreds of Ketron XD9 plastic cabinets lined up on tables. The people at Generalmusic said they do some of the manufacturing for Ketron. Paolo is correct. I was there in 2002 and I saw it myself.
What does occur is that you might find that someone who used to work for one of the other Italian manufactures might switch and now work for a different company.


------------------
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California
818-881-5566
www.kayesmusicscene.com

thanks paolo and george..what you both say makes sense..i must admit i did look at the dealer a bit "sideways" when he said it!!
cheers
dennis