After listening to the Korg PA1x drums and bass, I've concluded that they are way better than the T2's. (Don't call me biased - I've owned Yamahas for the past twenty years!)

Can anyone suggest - preferably from experience - very good and live sounding drum and bass VSTis (software instruments), that would blow away the T2 (and Korg for that matter)?

Preferably they shouldn't be too CPU intensive, because I would like to run drums, bass, and other solo instruments LIVE (for performances) out of a single apple G4 laptop.

Also, I don't want to have to tweak and tweak. I would like ready made drumkits and basses that sound great as is. I know that DFH (drumkit from hell) has like 20 snares. I don't need 20 snares - I need just 2 good ones. Does anyone have experience with DFH EZDrummer http://www.giardinelli.com/product/Toontrack-EZDrummer?sku=709987&src=AWFRWXX? I think this might meet my criteria...

Thank you, Chony



[This message has been edited by chony (edited 02-21-2007).]

Have a look at this site
http://www.macmusic.org/software/cat.php/lang/en/id/7030/

Bill

If u adjust the eq setting....u can get the T2 drums to sound really good. Thats one hell of a keyboard u have there

Rolandfan: I agree 100% with Chony. The drums and bass are the most disappointing aspect to me on my T2. It is a great keyboard but no amount of on-board EQ is going to fix the problem. The BIAB realdrums sounds better as do many of the sampled drums and basses out there. If you try to play a bass sound, outside of a style, on a T2 you will quickly notice the lack of quality choices. I have found the rythmns OK, although at times I found myself wanting for longer patterns so it didn't feel so repetitive. For me, I can make it work. But if I was doing music in a dance setting, I could see some limitations. I hope Chony can find some alternative that works for him and he can share. I think that integrated an external drum pattern with an arranger will be a very difficult task. For me, I am holding out hope for improved sounds/styles in a T3. But that will be a long wait.

yes the tyros styles do sound repetitive. I guess it depends what kind of music u play.. For me i enjoyed it... The pa1x does not sound repetitive

yes the tyros styles do sound repetitive. I guess it depends what kind of music u play.. For me i enjoyed it... The pa1x does not sound repetitive

yes the tyros styles do sound repetitive. I guess it depends what kind of music u play.. For me i enjoyed it... The pa1x does not sound repetitive

Can anyone show me where arranger styles Dont sound repetitive? love to hear that....
Sounds like a perfect case for SMF use.

This topic has got me curious about something regarding the T2's drums. I agree that typical Yamaha arranger drums leave a bit to be desired. This was even a complaint with the the T1.

Are the T2's drums velocity switched? Are there multiple layers on some of the keys? I ask this because this is what Roland does. The bongos on Roland's are a good example. They're velocity switched. Some have up to 3 samples on one key. Plus the snares are velocity switched too. I've listened to numerous online demos of the T2 from users and Yammies demos, but I can't hear any real di-hard velocity switching going on with the drums.

Also I think Roland's styles are much more expressive due to the dynamics within the drum track. They utilize the velocity switching, and the drums just sound more natural.

Does Yamaha also use "ghost" notes on the drums with the T2?

The drum sounds may be lacking on Ty2 but then so too are many of voices out of the box IMO, including the SA's when compared with their potential.
Fortunately they can be brought significantly more "up front", but you have to "get in there".
As far as drums are concerned use of a DSP MBAND COMP (compressor) has significantly more effect than EQ alone. Try putting a drum kit in R1, put in a suitable reverb in Mixing Console, then select a DSP for R1 and go to Dynamic Category, Type MBAND COMP. Choose suitable parameters - Hard or Attacky, Threshold 0, gain offsets around +10,6,14up.
Also look for the Effect Return level on that parameter page. You may want to turn it up from the 64 default.


Stand back!!! & try a few keys including snare.
Try with the DSP button on & off to compare.

To bring the percussion up in styles you'll have to put a compressor into DSP1 and turn up DSP settings from the usual zero defaults.


It may not be totally what you want but hope this helps.
John

If you can set the Tyros 2 drum track to output just midi notes, (A drum track is just a sequence track for drums) then by using a VST such as Battery 3, you will be able to have better quality drum samples that will match to the styles. (The Tyros 2 controls the sounds of the VST as if it was an internal drum kit)
If it can, then there will be no problems mixing them together. (Just connect the audio output of the computer to one of the line in of the Tyros 2)
BTW Does the Tyros 2 have Midi Sound Banks? If so use one of these patches to replace the internal drum kit.
Hope this helps

Bill

Hi,

I use EZdrummer as a VST-instrument on my Wersi Abacus. I can only say that all the styles sounding with absolute Live-feeling.

Best Regards.
Carlo.

Chony,
you may check M-Audio Drum & Bass Rig, http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/DrumBassRig-main.html but you have to hear it yourself beforehand, as my opinion will not be sufficient as I have never heard a Tyros 2 drumset.
Unfortunately, due to moving, I have no easy access to my home PC, but if you care enough, send me a drum & bass only midifile (say channel 7 bass, channel 10 drums) to trident1971 AT gmail DOT com, and I will try hard to record some sound samples for you (please inform me here if you send something). If I remember well, Fran Carango has this module or its close sibling, Key Rig.

Alternatively, and in a higher cost, Hypersonic 2 may do the trick.

Never managed to make EZ Drummer work in my PC, it was probably damaged when it fell off the truck.

Try to contact Bluezplayer or rikkisbears or Frank Rosenthal at the Software Arranger forum. They know lots of things. There is one possibility you have to do some programming if Tyros drums are XG mapped and the module you finelly decide to buy is GM.
Hope this helps a little.

Keep in mind that if you choose another option such as VST for your drums, you're still using the T2 styles. If the styles lack the "dynamics" then sure using the VST's will sound better, but you still will not get the dynamics.

I think overall the T2s drums aren't bad, I've surely heard worse too. I think the problem as I found on "EVERY" Yamaha arranger I've seen to date is that the drum tracks in the styles are lifeless because they lack "dynamics". You can have the greatest samples in the world, but if the drum track is weak on the dynamics the best drum samples can sound poor.

Hi Bill,
I don't think PSR's or even a Tyros has the midi capabilities to do this.
On my psr1500 I couldn't find a way to isolate a single track from the rest of the style parts & set it to external.

ie I wanted my Ketron SD2 soundmodule to supply drum & percussion sounds & to use psr sounds for the rest of the style parts.

The only settings I could come up with was for the ketron to supply all the sounds for the style parts & psr sounds for melody & left hand voices.

I don't think psr's have the settings required to assign individual style tracks to internal/external.

If I'm wrong , luv to know how to go about it as my ketron module has far better percussion & drum sounds than my psr 1500.
Would also give me the oppotunity of using some of my softsynths to replace some of the psr sounds.

best wishes
Rikki
[QUOTE]Originally posted by abacus:
[B]If you can set the Tyros 2 drum track to output just midi notes, (A drum track is just a sequence track for drums) then by using a VST such as Battery 3, you will be able to have better quality drum samples that will match to the styles. (The Tyros 2 controls the sounds of the VST as if it was an internal drum kit)

Thanks all,

I've just ordered the EZ Drummer from DFH - I fell in love with the demos I heard on the web.

Rikki,
Bill is right, you can deffinitely do that MIDI with the T2. Just go into the MIDI section and set the individual tracks (ie: rhythm, bass, R1, R2, etc, etc).

Squeak_D and RolandFan,
You are most probably right on the dynamics thing. I watched a multimedia demo of the DFH EZ Drummer, and when they turned off the dynamics it sounded like crap... But I love the overall sound of DFH anyway, so I bought it and will experiment.

Let's face it folks, as good as the best arrangers out there are, they don't compare with the modern sample libraries we can now buy. Somebody mentioned a figure that arrangers are 5 years behind. Sounds about right. As a professional performer, I'm always looking for the best sound, and frankly, this enables me to charge double and tripple what others are taking and still be very busy.

Thanks, Chony

rikkisbears,
On Tyros the midi channels used by styles are all transmittable externally - for example if they weren't it would be difficult to make midi recordings on external sequencers. (I was able to record my aged PSR 7000 this way too).
On Tyros Channel10 (and sometimes 9 ) is used for percussion. The desired transmit (and receive) channels can be selected, various properties set and stored as templates.

John

The addition of multi-dynamic drum samples to newer TOTL arrangers is one of the big stumbling blocks to making older styles match the quality of their ROM styles (developed for them!).

Not only is it important to balance the drums against each other for volume, when importing a non-native style, but also velocity gain, or compression/expansion, is necessary to make sure that the dynamics of the drum sounds natural.

Unfortunately, few style makers ever bothered much with natural dynamics on their styles (often preferring that 'in your face' 'all the way to 11' sound), thus making style translation even harder than it used to be!

One of the things (amongst many!) that attracts me to the G70/E80 is the inclusion of the V-Drum samples. These have passed the 'drummer test', and come directly from Roland's products they sell to drummers, so you KNOW that these are well-tested, drummer-approved sounds.

I rarely use any other kits, because of the drop in dynamics in comparison....

My advice to a Yamaha user would be - sample a G70 and use those kits! Or at least import a good library like DFH or BFD (just pick a few of their velocity levels, or you'll be at it forever!) and be amazed what a good, well recorded kit designed for a DRUMMER, not a keyboard player, makes!

At least drum samples don't take up too much memory, and won't take TOO long to load...

Hi John,
I may not have explained myself properly.

I have no problem setting midi out & playing the style parts on an external sound module ( my sd2 for instance) ie all 8 style tracks .
The problem I'm having is getting the psr to play just say, 6 of them & the sd2 to 2 of them. I haven't found a setting that assigns tracks individually ie style to be played via the psr internal soundsouce, OR an external soundsource.

Ideally I wanted the 2 drum tracks as SD2 sounds.
Bass & the other 5 tracks as psr sounds.

What I'm getting is sd2 playing all 8 style tracks as well as the psr playing all 8 tracks.

I can't find a local controll off in the psr which will mute drum /percussion sounds internally (I want the sd2 play the sounds instead,)while at the same time have the rest of the tracks played with internal psr sounds.

Unfortunately my module doesn't have buttons that can be pressed to mute tracks manually. It's really designed for pc or a controller keyboard.

Sorry, probably my question is clear as mud.

thanks
best wishes
Rikki
[QUOTE]Originally posted by jwyvern:
[B]rikkisbears,

Chony: Looking to hear about how you found integrating DFH EZ Drummer into the T2 to work or not work.

I tough that the T2 and other embedded keyboards are sounding perfects and you dont need to add nothing else...

I see now there that you are trying to make a new sounds setups with more power and quality.
Forget to routing under VST synths because every styles need a different soundsets and then you lose time to loading the all new sounds.
Maybe it will work on some styles but when then you have to continue swicth styles in realtime you will be cutted out.
Is really a big work, believe me.
The best way is to use one big sampler/streaming and have the all sounds ready in the soundbank ( like a ROM) then you can mappind the all styles in the right and fast way.
IF you really need one special sounds, just clone it with Extreme Sampler converter and add it in your Soundbank, like one ROM sounds.
In this way your arranger will working fine and fast switching from style to style.
Here one example how we make under Linuxsampler: http://www.lionstracs.com/demo/samplerlist.txt
We load now this all sounds in background chance RAM in LESS 2 seconds!
There you can also add the all instruments/drumkits that you like with the editor, up to 16.000 sounds mapped GM/GS http://www.lionstracs.com/store/images/LSampler4.jpg

Hope this help.

let me hear one demo Mp3 how you have remapped your styles under a VST system..I'm curious too.

[This message has been edited by LIONSTRACS (edited 02-23-2007).]

rikkisbears,
Thanks for the more detail.

You say

"I can't find a local controll off in the psr which will mute drum /percussion sounds internally (I want

the sd2 play the sounds instead,)while at the same time have the rest of the tracks played with internal

psr sounds."

The Channel Off feature as well as muting stops transmitting the midi which is not required!
So can you not turn the volume to zero and leave the channel transmitting? Then reset the volume externally on your module?


To send drum midi out you need to transmit only channel 10 (& sometimes 9).
Goto Function /Midi. Click on All Parts
then Edit.
Goto Transmit tab
Go down the Channel column with the highlight and turn Off all channels except 10 (& except 9 if necessary)

Note: Top & bott button 3 toggles On/Off
Press Exit, now the User tab & save, calling it a name of your choice. Now you can recall that setup whenever you want.

Hope this does it, I'm not at present 100% sure if you can get volume back on the module.
You might have to untick the CC column against Ch 10/9 so that when you turn the Tyros volume to zero it doesn't inluence the module
John

[This message has been edited by jwyvern (edited 02-23-2007).]

Hi John,
thanks a million.

The one obvious thing I didn't think to do was use the " Channel Off " feature, to stop transmitting the rest of the channels to my module. Had totally overlooked this midi feature.

I turned them all off except for 9 & 10 & now it's working perfectly.

Unfortunately the module doesn't have any buttons at all, but it was a very inexpensive & portable way for me to have similar sounds to my Ketron SD1+ keyboard mainly the Ketron's Live Drums.
http://www.ketron.it/prodotti/index.asp?idTipo=2

I bought it for use with OMB software & any ketron sd1 styles I may convert
( ketron styles don't convert well because of the "Live Drums"), but then thought it might be handy to midi it to the psr1500 as well and use the drums.

Up till now I hadn't worked out how to set it up correctly, so once again , thanks a million, I've now got my sd drums & psr style parts.

best wishes
Rikki


[QUOTE]Originally posted by jwyvern:
[B]

The Channel Off feature as well as muting stops transmitting the midi which is not required!

Hi Rikki, glad you got what you wanted.
A further point on Channel Off - if you hold down the Off button for a second or 2 the corresponding part sounds solo. Might be useful sometime.

John